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The Official Offseason Thread (Part III) - Is it TC yet?!

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Old
06-04-2012, 07:53 PM
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliemurphy View Post
What about someone like PA Paranteau? I'd be curious to see him on a line with Hagelin and maybe Anisiomov centering.
From what I have seen from Parenteau is he is pretty bad at coming back on defense. He already was here and failed in his time here. I believe he is more of a product of Moulson and Tavares then actually being a good player.

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06-04-2012, 07:53 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by charliemurphy View Post
What about someone like PA Paranteau? I'd be curious to see him on a line with Hagelin and maybe Anisiomov centering.
I'm not. Parenteau needs to be with high level talent and getting a lot of minutes to be successful. He's not going to get that here.

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06-04-2012, 07:54 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Ah the old, "but...you're wrong!" counter argument.
...that's your argument.

Every time that I've watched Radulov play, he's impressed me with his playmaking abilities. Every single time. He's able to create open ice with ease and make difficult passes through traffic and hit open players for quality scoring chances.

Plus, it's not like he had 60 assists in the KHL once.

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06-04-2012, 07:55 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by N9Y4R View Post
There is a lot of talk out of Pitt about Staal being moved this off-season for defensive help.
moot point, Pitts would never trade Staal within the division (especially to us), and we would never give them Girardi or Mcdonagh.

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06-04-2012, 08:02 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
Please explain to me what would compel Parise to accept Rangers offer over either Devils, Red Wings, Minny etc?
The Devils have next season and maybe the season after that as being legit contenders for the Stanley Cup. After that, they don't have much depth on their team in terms of younger prospects. They have some good D prospects, but after a while, it's going to be him and Kovalchuk with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd liners.

Minnesota is home to him. They have a similar future to the Rangers. They have one of the best prospect pools in the NHL and it could become the best after this draft. The issue here is there is no immediate Cup contention on that team. They will be a team in a couple seasons, but will Parise want to spend 2-3 years hoping they become a contender.

Detroit is older. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are on the other side of their careers. Lidstrom retired. Look for Suter to go there and fill his spot in the line-up. They have some nice prospects as they usually do, but will they be big enough of an impact when Datsyuk and Zetterberg start to slow down?

Parise isn't going to be signing a 4-5 year contract. He will be getting one of the 9-10 year deals that will almost be a retirement contract, the place where he is going to play for the remainder of his career. He's going to have a very difficult decision to make when it comes down to it.

The Rangers are attractive because of their youth, the level they have reached already, and the fact they have a top 3 goalie and one of the best defenses in the league. Parise can look at himself as being one of the last pieces to the puzzle in NY. It'll come down to what he is looking for. My guess is it will eventually break down like this: Do I want to play at home and wait for the young players to develop (Minnesota) or do I want to win a Cup now (NJ, NY, DET).

My best guess is he ends up in Minny or NY

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06-04-2012, 08:04 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Yeah, I think he creates space for both himself and for others. He's actually a very similar player to Rangers-era Jagr. I said this earlier. Obviously, Jagr was better at protecting the puck, but the same type of puck controlling forecheck, as opposed to a grinding forecheck. Jagr was obviously the more talented player too. I'm just saying, stylistically in the offensive zone they're very similar players. I think he's got better vision and passing than you are giving him credit for. There's a reason why he had triple the number of assists as goals a couple of years back. He's not a goalscorer primarily. He's not a playmaker primarily either. He's a lot of both.
I think that's a pretty good comparison stylistically, Jagr minus the puck protection. I am not saying Radulov can't dish the puck at all, just that it wasn't as big a part of his game as it is to the other players mentioned. At this point agree to disagree.

EDIT - To your point on the forecheck, I think that is not necessarily a team limitation (obviously it is for some players) but a stylistic choice on the part of Torts. Agree with it or not, I would be curious to see if Radulov was supported to take the same approach here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissFreakinWatch View Post
...that's your argument.

Every time that I've watched Radulov play, he's impressed me with his playmaking abilities. Every single time. He's able to create open ice with ease and make difficult passes through traffic and hit open players for quality scoring chances.

Plus, it's not like he had 60 assists in the KHL once.
I made my argument on the last page:

Lethal finish and hands. Can work the puck through the neutral zone with ease. Can create space for himself in the offensive zone effortlessly when his motor is going. Can work the puck in the offensive zone, but is not an elite passer/playmaker the way those aforementioned players are.

And I am talking about Radulov in the NHL. All I've seen of his work in the KHL is youtube clips and that doesn't hold a ton of weight for me.

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Last edited by HatTrick Swayze: 06-04-2012 at 08:12 PM.
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Old
06-04-2012, 08:09 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
My best guess is he ends up in Minny or NY
You have a well-reasoned argument, so don't take this the wrong way, but I would be very surprised if he ended up in Minny. I hate to be that jerk who claims to have "inside info", and the info I have is outdated (Christmas), but I would be very surprised.

Detroit is my top pick. NJ is #2.

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06-04-2012, 08:13 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I made my argument on the last page:

Lethal finish and hands. Can work the puck through the neutral zone with ease. Can create space for himself in the offensive zone effortlessly when his motor is going. Can work the puck in the offensive zone, but is not an elite passer/playmaker the way those aforementioned players are.

And I am talking about Radulov in the NHL. All I've seen of his work in the KHL is youtube clips and that doesn't hold a ton of weight for me.
So my opinion is a logical fallacy but I should take yours at face value? Ah.

Nobody said his playmaking abilities were on the level of a Malkin or Crosby...because nobody's playmaking abilities are on the level of those two. He does have enough skill, however, to force defenders out of position creating ample room for him to set up one of his teammates for an excellent scoring opportunity.

And to simply disregard a 60-assist season because it came in the KHL is silly. 60 assists in most likely the second best hockey league on earth clearly demonstrates extraordinary playmaking abilities. And let's not forget: those 60 assists came in 54 games.

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06-04-2012, 08:14 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
You have a well-reasoned argument, so don't take this the wrong way, but I would be very surprised if he ended up in Minny. I hate to be that jerk who claims to have "inside info", and the info I have is outdated (Christmas), but I would be very surprised.

Detroit is my top pick. NJ is #2.
That's fine. All are legit options. I'm just going by what I think would be the best places for him to play for now and in the future. Detroit is great to go to regardless because they know how to run a team.

I think NJ is his last choice even though he is still playing with them while every other option is home. I just don't see the future of that team past the next 1-2 seasons. They are going to have to seriously retool in the next couple seasons to stay out of the basement of the Atlantic IMO.

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06-04-2012, 08:16 PM
  #210
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Does Zach want to play at home? Some players want no part of playing at home. John Shannon reported on Sportsnet late in the season that Parise was not interested in playing for the Wild.

Detroit Red Wings.

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06-04-2012, 08:18 PM
  #211
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I agree.

I really feel like it's most likely going to be that he'll stay in NJ, but if he doesn't then I see him going to Detroit.

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06-04-2012, 08:18 PM
  #212
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Maybe LA will take a run at him this year.

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06-04-2012, 08:20 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissFreakinWatch View Post
So my opinion is a logical fallacy but I should take yours at face value? Ah.

Nobody said his playmaking abilities were on the level of a Malkin or Crosby...because nobody's playmaking abilities are on the level of those two. He does have enough skill, however, to force defenders out of position creating ample room for him to set up one of his teammates for an excellent scoring opportunity.

And to simply disregard a 60-assist season because it came in the KHL is silly. 60 assists in most likely the second best hockey league on earth clearly demonstrates extraordinary playmaking abilities.
Where did I ever say it was a logical fallacy, or that you were wrong? You're entitled to your opinion. The only one who was accused of knowing nothing is me.

And the KHL stats hold very little weight. It may be the 2nd best offensive league in the world but the questionable goaltending and defense in Radulov's highlight video alone takes a good bit away from the pure numbers. Larger ice also helps.

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06-04-2012, 08:27 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
Your "logic" makes me laugh again - if the salary cap hit and trade cost were not an issue all thirty NHL GMs would have taken Parise over Radulov in a heartbeat but apparently not you. Parise redundant - haha.
My logic?

Your logic is apparently build around "if there was no salary cap..."

Brilliant contribution to the discussion. If nets were 2 feet by 2 feet, Id be an NHL goalie.

Instead of trying to actually make a case for how a guy who doesn't bring any element that we don't already have is a better fit than a guy who does, you talk about "if there wasn't a salary cap..."

Come on, man.

I could argue either side. Parise, even tough he's the same type of forward we already have in Cally, Dubi, Hagelin, he's still proven he can score 40+ goals in this league and is a winner. He also always comes up big at key moments. You can never have too many of those guys. See. I just argued your point for you.

I'd love to add Parise if we can work a deal out.

I'd also love to add Radulov, because I think while Parise is clearly the better hockey player, Radulov brings things that we simply don't have on this team or in our system.

Parise AND Radulov would be a great offseason, IMO.

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06-04-2012, 08:30 PM
  #215
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Radulov is the last thing in the world from a guy that would flourish in a Tortorella system, and was a bum for the Pred's when they needed him. Why the hell are we for bringing him here? The dude stays out late in friggin' Nashville and people want to bring him into Manhattan.. Unreal. let's just forget the trade route at that point and bring back Zherdev.

I'd rather trade for Nash, and I'm not even in love with that option either. I just wouldn't give up the farm to get him, which shouldn't be too much of an issue as I'd guess the asking price for him will drop as we go along. My biggest concern with that is I don't know the details of his contract past the part of it being pretty rough and not for nothing, we're gonna have a few of our own guys that are going to be expecting paydays in the next couple of years or so too.

Honestly, none of the options are home runs. Parise is a good target but I just don't see that working. Out of everybody, I actually would like J. Staal the most, but I'd expect his asking price to exceed what Nash was going for at the deadline.

That being said, here's my lame attempt at a trade proposal

NYR: Staal
PIT: Del Zotto and Anisimov

Either way, gotta say that I hardly post here anymore but checked in to expect to see most of everyone on here dumping on the Radulov talk and, well... wow.

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06-04-2012, 08:36 PM
  #216
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2nd and 4th for Radulov
Sign Parise 12 years @ 6.75 cap-hit
Sign Schultz to ELC


Kreider Richards Radulov
Parise Stepan Gaborik
Hagelin Dubinsky Callahan
Anisimov Boyle Prust
Rupp, Mitchell

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Schultz
Del Zotto Erixon/Sauer/McIlrath

Lundqvist
Biron

We don't give up a single roster player or prospect, and we improve the team dramatically.

This is the ideal scenario, IMO.

But realistically, we're probably going to miss out on Parise and have to trade assets for Nash or someone else.


Last edited by Zuccarello Awesome*: 06-04-2012 at 08:47 PM.
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06-04-2012, 08:41 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
2nd and 4th for Radulov
Sign Parise 12 years @ 6.75 cap-hit
Sign Schultz to ELC


Kreider Richards Radulov
Parise Stepan Gaborik
Dubinsky Anisimov Callahan
Rupp Boyle Prust
Mitchell

McDonagh Girardi
Staal Schultz
Del Zotto Erixon/Sauer/McIlrath

Lundqvist
Biron

We don't give up a single roster player or prospect, and we improve the team dramatically.

This is the ideal scenario, IMO.

But realistically, we're probably going to miss out on Parise and have to trade assets for Nash or someone else.
This would be amazing, but could it work under the cap? What would Rads's cap hit be?

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06-04-2012, 08:42 PM
  #218
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This would be amazing, but could it work under the cap? What would Rads's cap hit be?
It would work this year, but we're ****ed 2 or 3 years down the line.

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06-04-2012, 08:44 PM
  #219
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It would work this year, but we're ****ed 2 or 3 years down the line.
Yeah and I also completely forgot about Hagelin. I'm embarrassed. I edited the post, heh.

Although in a year, we could trade Gaborik as a rental.

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06-04-2012, 08:44 PM
  #220
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It would work this year, but we're ****ed 2 or 3 years down the line.
Well, in two years Gabby's contract comes off the books, and Dubi would probably be trade bait as well. We also wouldn't resign EVERYONE. For example, if Anisimov doesn't improve he could be gone.

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06-04-2012, 08:45 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Yeah and I also completely forgot about Hagelin. I'm embarrassed. I edited the post, heh.
I too forgot about Haggy, lol

Hagelin on the 4th line?? Don't know about that one. He's far too skilled to be there..

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06-04-2012, 08:46 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
I too forgot about Haggy, lol

Hagelin on the 4th line?? Don't know about that one. He's far too skilled to be there..
Yeah, but who does he replace? I don't want to trade Dubinsky just to trade him, ie for picks or a prospect, like some posters here.

I'm gonna have to think about this one, lol

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06-04-2012, 08:47 PM
  #223
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Gaborik's not going to be in that lineup for at least a month and a half, probably closer to 3 months. You don't have to change anything with that lineup. By the time he comes back, I'm sure someone else will be hurt.

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06-04-2012, 08:48 PM
  #224
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Gaborik's not going to be in that lineup for at least a month and a half, probably closer to 3 months. You don't have to change anything with that lineup. By the time he comes back, I'm sure someone else will be hurt.
True, and if not, someone will likely be struggling and can be dogged down to the 4th line. Likely either Dubi or Artie.

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06-04-2012, 08:49 PM
  #225
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Well, in two years Gabby's contract comes off the books, and Dubi would probably be trade bait as well. We also wouldn't resign EVERYONE. For example, if Anisimov doesn't improve he could be gone.
Even then, I'm not sure it's enough. In 2013 everyone and their grandmother is RFA. In 2014 and 15 pretty much the entire core besides Richards and Staal becomes UFA. We have to keep this in mind.

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