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2012 CBJ Offseason Part II (Proposals? Speculation? Blog Rumors? Right here.)

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06-09-2012, 05:10 PM
  #126
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According to this http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/06/09/...-possibilities CBJ tried to acquire Bernier last season but couldn't get it done. Not directly offseason material, but it plays into it. True or not? Who knows.

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06-09-2012, 05:55 PM
  #127
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Reading, as in many things...


.....passion and perspective.

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06-09-2012, 05:59 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I believe that your're mistaken in thinking nothing can be learned from fiction. If you choose to learn nothing from the imagination of others, you're limited to only what you, yourself can imagine. That seems very limiting to me.
I read what the Canadian hockey media has to say. Certainly 99% of that garbage qualifies as "fiction".

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06-09-2012, 06:15 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I believe that your're mistaken in thinking nothing can be learned from fiction. If you choose to learn nothing from the imagination of others, you're limited to only what you, yourself can imagine. That seems very limiting to me.
very enlightened response. And just think of all the fiction (i.e. bs) that abounds here. I've learned a lot from it.

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06-09-2012, 06:31 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I read what the Canadian hockey media has to say. Certainly 99% of that garbage qualifies as "fiction".
Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
And just think of all the fiction (i.e. bs) that abounds here. I've learned a lot from it.
See, Your Honor, you read more fiction than you thought! Whether you learn anything is up to you.

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06-09-2012, 07:28 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by FreeBoomer61 View Post
i know many of you - personally me too - believe that a nash trade should not have a goalie as the centerpiece in whatever the jackets get back for him. since the market for a solid goalie is slim, what would you guys think if the howson went after luongo? i know his contract is bad, but the CBJ desperately need a goalie in the near future that can perform well.

would you guys be happy if this would happen?

to BOS: Nash, Goloubef, 3rd
to CBJ: Krejci, Hamilton, 2012 1st

Boston gets Nash and a prospect, and CBJ gets scoring to replace Nash, a later pick, and a solid prospect.

OR

to SJ: Nash, 3rd
to CBJ: Pavelski, D. Murray, Greiss

CBJ gets scoring to replace nash, good Dman, and an ok backup

---------
then:

to Van: Umberger, Savard/Methot (cap reasons), Mason
to CBJ: Luoungo, Booth

CBJ finally get a great #1 goalie, scoring to replace umby. Van gets decent Dman back, consistent scoring from umby, and a backup for schneider

---------
then:

to Phi: Savard/Methot (whichever one isnt traded to Van), 2nd
to CBJ: JVR

Phi gets either a good prospect back or a solid 5-6 Dman and a pick, and the jackets get scoring back (tho inconsistent)

flame away!
Sorry Umberger to Vancouver would be a deal breaker. Umberger and his mouth burned his bridges to any return to the Canucks with Kesler playing for the same team. Columbus would have to be willing to to also take Kesler, Bellows and Bieksa before Umberger could be sent to the Canucks even if we planned to trade him right away.

On top of that, Luongo would refuse move to Columbus until you learned how to properly spell his name.

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06-09-2012, 07:55 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hip check View Post
According to this http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/06/09/...-possibilities CBJ tried to acquire Bernier last season but couldn't get it done. Not directly offseason material, but it plays into it. True or not? Who knows.
It's from Bruce Garriocch so I don't know if I should believe it or not. It's quite possible even though Howson isn't that high on him. Could have offered nothing of significance though and didn't want him in the Carter trade.

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06-09-2012, 08:04 PM
  #133
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Saw this on the trade board. Realistic leafs jackets trade for once.

2nd overall for 5th overall, Gunnarsson, and 35th overall.

If Howson is dead set on Forsberg, which it seems like he is, he would do this deal. So would I. We could potentially have 5 picks in the first 45 picks. Not a bad way to bolster the prospect pool, similar to what ottawa did last year. Thoughts?

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06-09-2012, 08:20 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
A proposal on the Trade board:

Brass and Tyutin

For

Neuwirth, #11 pick in this draft, and Shultz

I suggested that it might look better from our side by switching Methot in; but I'm not good at these things, plus I know nothing about Shultz and I'm not Brassard's biggest fan around here. I do think the goalie has value, as does the pick. Any thoughts?

Edit: by the way, I am instituting a new personal rule - never open another trade proposal involving the Toronto Maple Leafs.
This is certainly acceptable. This assures that we can play Johansen in the top six next season, where he should be be, vs. having his situation determined game to game.

I'd hate to break up the Tyutin-Nikitin pairing, but I think we'd have to give up more than just Methot....

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06-09-2012, 08:20 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
Saw this on the trade board. Realistic leafs jackets trade for once.

2nd overall for 5th overall, Gunnarsson, and 35th overall.

If Howson is dead set on Forsberg, which it seems like he is, he would do this deal. So would I. We could potentially have 5 picks in the first 45 picks. Not a bad way to bolster the prospect pool, similar to what ottawa did last year. Thoughts?
If he is set on Forsberg then its not a bad move. Only way it doesn't work is if Isles take Forsberg. But then the jackets will have Murray or one of the other D's to pick from.

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06-09-2012, 09:06 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post

If Howson is dead set on Forsberg, which it seems like he is,
I have seen a few people make this same assertion. But I don't remember seeing anything that would give such an indication. As closed lipped as this organization as shown itself to be, I have a difficult time believing they're spilling the beans on this one.

Let me know what tea leaves you're reading, so I can read them too.

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06-09-2012, 09:18 PM
  #137
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sure has been a lot of smoke for there not to be any fire on the Forsberg front.

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06-09-2012, 09:26 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
A proposal on the Trade board:

Brass and Tyutin

For

Neuwirth, #11 pick in this draft, and Shultz

I suggested that it might look better from our side by switching Methot in; but I'm not good at these things, plus I know nothing about Shultz and I'm not Brassard's biggest fan around here. I do think the goalie has value, as does the pick. Any thoughts?

Edit: by the way, I am instituting a new personal rule - never open another trade proposal involving the Toronto Maple Leafs.
I don't like it. Top 6 F, Top 4 D for an oft-scratched D man and backup goalie. The #11 is the most valuable part of the deal. Neuvirth would be an improvement in G, Schultz would be a change of pace from Tyutin, but not at that price, IMO

With the D finally at a point where it can be an NHL D, I would hesitate to trade any of those assets for anything as average as this. As far as Brassard, if Nash goes, he's one of our top 3 forwards. Better have a plan to replace him.

It's not that I want to keep everyone, but I don't see the point replacing the parts that have value who're still young enough to be around for a rebuild/retool unless it's a proposal that blows me away. I think the best way to rebuild/retool is by more additions than subtractions and if you remove guys like Tyutin and Brass, you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

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06-09-2012, 09:37 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
sure has been a lot of smoke for there not to be any fire on the Forsberg front.
Lot of smoke? But from where. Mock drafts? HF discussions? My brother-in-law's cousin's neighbor's gardener stuff.

Typical if you say something often enough, eventually it will be accepted as truth.

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06-09-2012, 09:52 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
Lot of smoke? But from where. Mock drafts? HF discussions? My brother-in-law's cousin's neighbor's gardener stuff.

Typical if you say something often enough, eventually it will be accepted as truth.
Every draft thing concerning the Jackets that I've seen talks about how they LOVE Forsberg, Porty said it, that's the only specific one I've remembered..

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06-09-2012, 09:59 PM
  #141
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I think there should be some misconceptions cleared up here.

For the poster that doesn't think Schneider isn't good enough for a GM to want him as a franchise player for his team (the player the GM builds the rest of the team around in order to support the franchise player), do you consider Luongo a franchise player? I hope you said yes because the Canucks did infact build their team totally around Luongo as soon as they got him. Successive GM's have continued Luongo as the team's prime franchise player (the Sedins and Kesler as secondary core players).

What has that have to do with Cory? Well Gillis is seriously considering trading Luongo and making Schneider the Canuck's new franchise player. And no, Luongo has not asked to be traded. Like Nash tried to do, Luongo said he would not enforce his NTC rights if Gillis felt trading him would benefit the team, but his main goal is to win the Stanley Cup and would prefer to stay with the Canucks to do that.

That I hope clears up what Canuck management consider the potential of Cory Schneider. Please don't think that Gillis wouldn't hesitate to keep both through all of next season. Neither will be available for scraps.

Next. Why do you think the Canucks want Columbus' first round pick (2nd overall)? Gillis really isn't after it that much nor are the Canucks really trying to get Toronto's #5 overall pick. Obviously the Canucks won't turn either down, but what Gillis is looking for are players who will benefit the team most now, not 3, 5, 10 years from now. If picks come in a trade, especially yours or the Leaf's, Gillis is just as likely to trade them away then use them.

Equally Columbus should be looking at how draft picks, UFA's and trades affect the team overall, not at how valuable or skilled a specific player or pick is. A player like Nail might be fantastically skilled, but his skill set really doesn't fit the Canucks as a team well. Like Bure was, he is too independant in his play. Mogilney wasn't as individually skilled as Bure was, but Mogilney fit better with the team.

The Canucks key needs is a younger centre with size and skill to form a offensive, youth third line with Jensen and Kassian, a top four right side defenseman to play with Edler or Ballard on the second pairing (whichever of the two the Canucks keep, the Canucks first pairing is Hanhuis and Bieksa), and legitimate first line scoring winger to play right wing with the Sedins (allowing Burrows to play on the Kesler line).

There are only two players on the Blue Jackets that fit the needs of the Canucks. They are Rick Nash and Ryan Johansen. The Canucks have a number of players they could part with that are better than what the Blue Jackets currently have, but if Columbus isn't interested that is fine, there are other teams interested and even if the Canucks stand pat, they start the season with a team that won the President's trophy two years running plus three to four prospects ready to move up that weren't ready for the big club last season.

As to the poster who wanted Edler. Edler is a core defenseman on the Canucks, but could be made available. The Canucks have no real #1 defenfenceman, but five legitimate top four defensemen. Two right side (Bieksa & Salo, but Salo is near retirement) three left side (Hamhuis, Edler & Ballard). Hamhuis and Edler are the more skilled of the three, but Ballard would still be a top four D on most teams and not that far off that of Edler. Edler would cost more than Ballard, but could be included in a trade. The Canucks also have 5 legitimate top six wingers (D. Sedin, Burrows, Raymond, Booth & Higgins) Daniel and Burrows (nor Henrik and Kesler) won't be traded, but one of the other three is available for trade and all three are better then your top 6 other than Nash,

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06-09-2012, 10:05 PM
  #142
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Schneider may be good enough for the Canucks (what did they have 107 pts or so) but he is definitely not worth anything from the Jackets except a 3rd rounder or next year's 2nd. I mean the guy hasn't even started 100 games in the NHL.

You make some excellent points but don't expect many here to embrace many of them.

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06-09-2012, 10:06 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
Every draft thing concerning the Jackets that I've seen talks about how they LOVE Forsberg, Porty said it, that's the only specific one I've remembered..
well, if PORTY said it you can take it to the BANK!!!

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06-09-2012, 10:07 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
Every draft thing concerning the Jackets that I've seen talks about how they LOVE Forsberg, Porty said it, that's the only specific one I've remembered..
Again, it all seems to be to lots and lots of second hand stuff. CBJ are trading Nash, the CBJ will need a winger to take his place, Forsberg is similar to Nash. Ergo

CBJ LOVE Forsberg

Other posters come in here see comments, back to other boards, back to the mains and what do you know

CBJ LOVE Forsberg

I too have seen lots of posts and mocks with Forsberg going to CBL, same ones have Galchenyuk falling to the Leafs cuz they need a center, like we don't?

I don't even remember AP saying anything. It might just happen but I'm not buying it at this point. If anybody can point me to some kind of substantial iinformation I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

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06-09-2012, 10:27 PM
  #145
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Yeah I don't think I can explain why I'm buying it, I've just seen it a bunch and it seems like a Howson pick. I'm advocating for Galch, then Murray, then Forsberg.

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06-09-2012, 10:32 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
Yeah I don't think I can explain why I'm buying it, I've just seen it a bunch and it seems like a Howson pick. I'm advocating for Galch, then Murray, then Forsberg.
What's a Howson pick?

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06-09-2012, 10:34 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
What's a Howson pick?
A player taken in the first round that is determined to be a bust after 1.5 years.

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06-09-2012, 10:39 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
What's a Howson pick?
That's what I can't really explain.. great character, passion for the game, high skill, big frame. I don't know what he sees in Forsberg as opposed to Galchenyuk though. Probably thinks of him as a Nash replacement, which you said earlier.

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06-09-2012, 10:56 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
That's what I can't really explain.. great character, passion for the game, high skill, big frame. I don't know what he sees in Forsberg as opposed to Galchenyuk though. Probably thinks of him as a Nash replacement, which you said earlier.
Again what is it that makes you believe he prefers Forsberg?

I am not trying to be an ass, I'm really not. I'm trying to figure out how/where this supposed preference seems to have taken hold.

Picking between the two I also would pick Galchenyuk.

It seems to me that so much has been made about the two centers and who would go to MTL and who would go to TML that the wishful thinking just forgets the #2 pick belongs to CBL and well they just pick Forsberg to replace Nash.

I do not mean to dismis Forsbergs talent. He may just have the highest ceiling of any prospect in the draft, but that doesn't make him the best pick.

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06-09-2012, 11:32 PM
  #150
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I'll assume you're referring to me, since I've spent the most time prattling on about Schneider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-wayman View Post
I think there should be some misconceptions cleared up here.

For the poster that doesn't think Schneider isn't good enough for a GM to want him as a franchise player for his team (the player the GM builds the rest of the team around in order to support the franchise player), do you consider Luongo a franchise player? I hope you said yes because the Canucks did infact build their team totally around Luongo as soon as they got him. Successive GM's have continued Luongo as the team's prime franchise player (the Sedins and Kesler as secondary core players).
Yes, Luongo is a franchise player.

Quote:
What has that have to do with Cory? Well Gillis is seriously considering trading Luongo and making Schneider the Canuck's new franchise player. And no, Luongo has not asked to be traded. Like Nash tried to do, Luongo said he would not enforce his NTC rights if Gillis felt trading him would benefit the team, but his main goal is to win the Stanley Cup and would prefer to stay with the Canucks to do that.
The bolded may or may not mean anything. Mike Milbury drafted Luongo and got him to the point of being mere weeks away from being a full-time NHL starter, and then dumped him for...well, no one knows why. One can only assume that Dipietro's puckhandling skills were overvalued.

Ineffective organizations tend to lose out on productive players who are right under their noses because they focus on what a player can't do, rather than what he can do. Where coaches like Ken Hitchcock have had success is because they generally don't fall into that trap, and where GMs like Ken Holland have had success is because they look at what a player can do instead of what he can't. Then an afterthought player does something positive, and we all rave about what a great reclamation project the guy is. It's not really a reclamation, it's just figuring out what a player can do and maximizing the situations where he can put that to use.

Quote:
That I hope clears up what Canuck management consider the potential of Cory Schneider. Please don't think that Gillis wouldn't hesitate to keep both through all of next season. Neither will be available for scraps.
Gillis may not actually have his back up against the wall, but this is a perfect opportunity to move one of them and benefit the Canucks in the process.

If Schneider goes for a king's ransom, then the Canucks keep Luongo and have an improved team in front of him.

If Luongo goes, it allows Schneider to take over as starter. It also provides a fallback; if the team underachieves, it's immediately dismissed as being due to Schneider being a first-year starter.

If he keeps both, the team doesn't improve that way, Schneider burns another prime year backing up Luongo, and there's the significant risk of Luongo's trade value plummeting to zero. That's in addition to having to handle a goaltending controversy for an entire season.

I think, barring a massive offer (multiple top prospects, first-rounders, or NHL players who have not yet begun to decline) from someone for Schneider, Luongo gets moved at the draft. Someone will offer a pick between 30-50, and he'll go.

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