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Old
06-07-2012, 05:21 AM
  #26
vitogor
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In this business, if you are not willing to take a gamble here and there, you are going to have a terrible team, and a Riseboresque prospect pool - a bunch of potential 4th liners and 3rd pairing D's. With the Leddy trade, Fletcher gambled on Barker and lost, simple as that. Oh well, time to get over it.

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06-07-2012, 10:55 AM
  #27
thestonedkoala
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
Barker was like a drunken mistake. Fletch had the beer goggles on that evening, and spent the following day calling his other GM buddies asking, "Why the #$@! did you let me go home with that?"
^ That or he was gambling on you know having a coach that can develop the talent.

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06-12-2012, 07:23 AM
  #28
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I know i'm in the minority, but here goes..I for one argee with those who say you have to take a few chance's if your going to win a SC.. The Leddy/Barker deal didn't work out..O'well... IMO the last thing the Wild need is another weak defenseman whose lousy in his own end and can't shoot the puck.. It would have been several year's before he would have even had a chance to fit in here.. And that's a big Maybe.. Fletch was taking a chance that Barker would have been able to help right away..It didn't work..Now let's move on.

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06-22-2012, 01:04 PM
  #29
IronRangeHockey
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I know the OP is beg sarcastic so my comment is't directed towards him.

I've read countless posts everywhere from "Wild Fans" that GMCF should be canned, he can't bring inthe likes of a Crosby or the next Gretzky, his draft selections are terrible etc.

imo, he's only just begun to whipe out and replace the load of garbage he inherited. Atleast theres HOPE now..


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06-22-2012, 01:33 PM
  #30
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I wouldn't say he's "only begun", he's been here three years. While we haven't seen his draft picks yet, he's been pretty meh on NHL talent recruits.

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06-22-2012, 01:45 PM
  #31
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I still think that getting Brodziak is a better positive move than any of his bad moves are bad, if that makes any sense.

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06-22-2012, 01:48 PM
  #32
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Sure he's done well with Brodziak and Gilbert looks good too. Correcting the Havlat mistake with Heatley was good. The bottom line is there has been no success at the NHL level. You can make all the great decisions you want but if you're missing the playoffs 5, 6, 7 years in a row...it ain't the predecessor's fault.

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06-22-2012, 01:48 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I wouldn't say he's "only begun", he's been here three years. While we haven't seen his draft picks yet, he's been pretty meh on NHL talent recruits.
Agreed. This stems from his "Have your cake and eat it too" team building philosophy. Trying to make the playoffs every year and refusing to go into full rebuild mode...

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06-22-2012, 01:48 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I wouldn't say he's "only begun", he's been here three years. While we haven't seen his draft picks yet, he's been pretty meh on NHL talent recruits.
You just said it yourself that we haven't seen his drat picks yet, according to the "experts" the Wilds prospect pool is ranked 2nd in the league (TBD), but I wouldn't say it's "meh" (if im understanding you correctly).

The reason I say he's only just begun is because his draftee's have yet to see the ice, which should more accurately describe the job he's doneto date.

personally, i think hs doing a very good job, not without his awseets..

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06-22-2012, 01:49 PM
  #35
Dr Jan Itor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Sure he's done well with Brodziak and Gilbert looks good too. Correcting the Havlat mistake with Heatley was good. The bottom line is there has been no success at the NHL level. You can make all the great decisions you want but if you're missing the playoffs 5, 6, 7 years in a row...it ain't the predecessor's fault.
Right, good point.

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06-22-2012, 01:53 PM
  #36
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As far as hi NHL track record, first two years we had a new owner who wanted playoffs no matter what. He had to cater to that, finally the owner saw it and he has done a good job gearing up. Last year was a ****ing anomaly. How many teams can lose three top 6 guys one of them being the top center in like a week and a half of each other and be ok. Hell even the guys who tried to play t6 roles and looked like they could work out got hurt.

GMCF has done a terrific job IMHO

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06-22-2012, 01:55 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by IronRangeHockey View Post
You just said it yourself that we haven't seen his drat picks yet, according to the "experts" the Wilds prospect pool is ranked 2nd in the league (TBD), but I wouldn't say it's "meh" (if im understanding you correctly).

The reason I say he's only just begun is because his draftee's have yet to see the ice, which should more accurately describe the job he's doneto date.

personally, i think hs doing a very good job, not without his awseets..
I said NHL, not prospects. He's been pretty hit or miss bringing NHL'ers in. I think he's doing a little better now than he has in the past, where he seemed to completely neglect impact on the locker room or personality conflicts.

Still, he needs to show that he can assemble a winning NHL team. And that means adding players via free agency and trade that make the team better, not worse.

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06-22-2012, 01:57 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I said NHL, not prospects. He's been pretty hit or miss bringing NHL'ers in. I think he's doing a little better now than he has in the past, where he seemed to completely neglect impact on the locker room or personality conflicts.

Still, he needs to show that he can assemble a winning NHL team. And that means adding players via free agency and trade that make the team better, not worse.
Brodziak trade, Powe trade, Heatley trade.

People are so quick to remember bad decisions, and completely neglect anything remotely good. Let's not forget the draft day trade to get Leddy + Hackett + Haula instead of de Haan.

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06-22-2012, 01:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I said NHL, not prospects. He's been pretty hit or miss bringing NHL'ers in. I think he's doing a little better now than he has in the past, where he seemed to completely neglect impact on the locker room or personality conflicts.

Still, he needs to show that he can assemble a winning NHL team. And that means adding players via free agency and trade that make the team better, not worse.
Fair enough, I just dont think bringing n top tier F'A's (game/team changers) is an easy task. Especially when your team was as bad as the Wild was.

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06-22-2012, 02:02 PM
  #40
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Powe trade wasn't great. Seemed like a bad move at the time, doesn't seem to have made a difference today.

I'm not saying he's a bad GM.

Let me say that again.

I'm not saying he's a bad GM.

I am saying he hasn't shown anything at the NHL level. A meaningful improvement in the on-ice product.

One of two things has happened:

1. He tried to improve the team and failed to do so. That is what he stated, from the beginning, that he wanted to make the playoffs, not in the future, but now. So if that was truly his intention, he has done a pretty piss poor job.

2. He tried to improve the prospect base at the expense of the team and did not disclose that information to the fan base. I think this is what actually happened, especially after year one. I think he can't come out and say it because the fans will revolt. But the Burns trade definitely made the team worse short-term to improve it long-term.

Still, if that's the case, he has yet to make the Wild a competitive, playoff hockey team. And until he does that, at best his grade is "incomplete", and at worst a D or F. Prospects are worthless if they don't improve the NHL club (yes I know it takes time to judge them and pan out, which is why I haven't called for his head ever).

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06-22-2012, 02:03 PM
  #41
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Powe is great on PK's.

That was a decent trade even if I disliked the player at first.

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06-22-2012, 02:05 PM
  #42
Dr Jan Itor
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Like any GM, he has his share of good move and his share of duds. The one thing he lacks is the "game changer" type move. Hopefully it's coming in a week or so.

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06-22-2012, 02:07 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Powe trade wasn't great. Seemed like a bad move at the time, doesn't seem to have made a difference today.
That's a pretty unjustifiable statement. Traded a (2 years in the future) 3rd round pick for a quality 4th liner who is actually an NHL player. There's really no way to say that's a mistake. Of course it hasn't "made a difference." He's a 4th liner. They're not supposed to be difference makers. He turned an almost value-less asset into an NHL player, which is exactly what your post demanded of him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I'm not saying he's a bad GM.

Let me say that again.

I'm not saying he's a bad GM.

I am saying he hasn't shown anything at the NHL level. A meaningful improvement in the on-ice product.

One of two things has happened:

1. He tried to improve the team and failed to do so. That is what he stated, from the beginning, that he wanted to make the playoffs, not in the future, but now. So if that was truly his intention, he has done a pretty piss poor job.

2. He tried to improve the prospect base at the expense of the team and did not disclose that information to the fan base. I think this is what actually happened, especially after year one. I think he can't come out and say it because the fans will revolt. But the Burns trade definitely made the team worse short-term to improve it long-term.

Still, if that's the case, he has yet to make the Wild a competitive, playoff hockey team. And until he does that, at best his grade is "incomplete", and at worst a D or F. Prospects are worthless if they don't improve the NHL club (yes I know it takes time to judge them and pan out, which is why I haven't called for his head ever).
I don't think anyone accused you of this. I certainly didn't. What you did say is that he hasn't made trades to improve the team. I provided you with three examples where that's exactly what he did. Unless you have some sort of reason why those trades made the team worse, that means that your statement was false. There's no reading between the lines here, just what's there at face value.

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Old
06-22-2012, 02:11 PM
  #44
Dr Jan Itor
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
That's a pretty unjustifiable statement. Traded a (2 years in the future) 3rd round pick for a quality 4th liner who is actually an NHL player. There's really no way to say that's a mistake. Of course it hasn't "made a difference." He's a 4th liner. They're not supposed to be difference makers. He turned an almost value-less asset into an NHL player, which is exactly what your post demanded of him.
Plus he got the 3rd back for Sheppard. Highway robbery.

Quote:
I don't think anyone accused you of this. I certainly didn't. What you did say is that he hasn't made trades to improve the team. I provided you with three examples where that's exactly what he did. Unless you have some sort of reason why those trades made the team worse, that means that your statement was false. There's no reading between the lines here, just what's there at face value.
I think it's a "whole vs. the sum of its parts" argument. Those moves you listed did help, but the team as a whole hasn't taken that step forward.

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06-22-2012, 02:12 PM
  #45
Jarick
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My measure of success:

2008-09 - 89 pts, 9th (missed playoffs)
2009-10 - 84 pts, 13th (missed playoffs)
2010-11 - 86 pts, 12th (missed playoffs)
2011-12 - 81 pts, 12th (missed playoffs)

The team is not better than it was a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, or four years ago. Actually they finished with fewer points than they have since 2001-02, which is impressive because of point inflation post-lockout.

So no, my statement is not false. It's 100% accurate.

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06-22-2012, 02:12 PM
  #46
IronRangeHockey
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I think Fletcher's biggest foul up was Richards. His roster moves imo where pretty decent. I dont think he stood much of a chance in signing any top tier FA's the past 3 seasons.

He better hope and pray that Yeo pans out.

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06-22-2012, 02:15 PM
  #47
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ALL HAIL THE FLETCH!!!!



I will keep this short and sweet because I think its more than obvious for how I feel about our GM.

Greatness!!!! A few bumps in the road but I love the fact that he is a gambling man and in my eyes, has improved...... He has been accountable and faces the media, truly thankful he is on our team compared to the "derpes"

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06-22-2012, 02:19 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
My measure of success:

2008-09 - 89 pts, 9th (missed playoffs)
2009-10 - 84 pts, 13th (missed playoffs)
2010-11 - 86 pts, 12th (missed playoffs)
2011-12 - 81 pts, 12th (missed playoffs)

The team is not better than it was a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, or four years ago. Actually they finished with fewer points than they have since 2001-02, which is impressive because of point inflation post-lockout.

So no, my statement is not false. It's 100% accurate.
You're begging the question pretty bad there. There's so many more factors that go into building a team than you're acknowledging. Last year's meltdown can very easily be completely blamed on actions taken by DR, therefore your claim does not hold unless you find a way to associate things with Fletcher. Even if you do, the actual claim I took umbrage with (that Fletcher has not made trades that improved the team) is already demonstrated as false regardless.

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Old
06-22-2012, 02:19 PM
  #49
bozak911
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I think Fletcher's biggest foul up was Richards.
No argument from me...

#FireToddRichards

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06-22-2012, 02:22 PM
  #50
Jarick
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You're begging the question pretty bad there. There's so many more factors that go into building a team than you're acknowledging. Last year's meltdown can very easily be completely blamed on actions taken by DR, therefore your claim does not hold unless you find a way to associate things with Fletcher. Even if you do, the actual claim I took umbrage with (that Fletcher has not made trades that improved the team) is already demonstrated as false regardless.
I do, and that's lack of depth at the NHL level.

At some point, you stop making excuses and you have to hold someone accountable. I don't think we're at that point yet. We might not even be there if the team misses the playoffs this upcoming season. But there will come a point where missing the playoffs is no longer acceptable.

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