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v19: off-season '12 - Landry Fields agrees to offer sheet (3 years, 19 million)

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06-16-2012, 05:43 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
it's hilarious that the Knicks were basically so full of themselves that all their fans believed they'd assemble their own big 3 and get Phil Jackson and crush the league like Miami. And what do they have to show for themselves? No coach, the broken shell of Amare Stoudemire, the horribly inefficient offensive black hole that is Carmelo Anthony, and the conviction that Jeremy Lin is their savior and superstar-in-waiting.
It's funny because before the Carmelo trade, they looked to be a team on the rise.

Amare was playing great basketball. Felton was a nice fit at PG. Then they had nice promising wings in Fields, Chandler and Gallinari. Now they are just a mess.

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06-16-2012, 11:15 PM
  #127
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glad jackson finally said what everyone was thinking. carmelo needs to learn to pass more and stop trying to win 1v1. i mean look at them vs the heat, the heat just sent double teams to him and because the offense was always carmelo score and everyone wait for the ball no one knew what to run when carmelo got doubled.

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06-16-2012, 11:52 PM
  #128
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One of the reasons why Lebron works so good with other Superstars, is because he can pass. He doesn't mind passing either.. Knicks blew up way too much of their team for Melo. Far, far too much.

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06-16-2012, 11:57 PM
  #129
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One of the reasons why Lebron works so good with other Superstars, is because he can pass. He doesn't mind passing either.. Knicks blew up way too much of their team for Melo. Far, far too much.
everything the Knicks have done has been pretty much wrong. They blew all their assets on Carmelo when he's a notoriously selfish scorer, paid a mint for the balky knees of Amare when he needs the right system to succeed, and are about to back the money truck up again for Jeremy Lin when he's proven nothing over the long haul and at best is another score-first PG with a high turnover rate.

If you want to say that Miami did everything right in assembling superstars (and I don't think they did everything right considering how sucktastic their supporting cast is and how much I despise their team model), then New York did everything wrong. The way they're assembled now, they're going to eek into the playoffs in the 4-8 spot, get bounced in the 1st/2nd round, and fans will continually lament how close they are when they're really light years away.

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06-17-2012, 06:33 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
everything the Knicks have done has been pretty much wrong. They blew all their assets on Carmelo when he's a notoriously selfish scorer, paid a mint for the balky knees of Amare when he needs the right system to succeed, and are about to back the money truck up again for Jeremy Lin when he's proven nothing over the long haul and at best is another score-first PG with a high turnover rate.

If you want to say that Miami did everything right in assembling superstars (and I don't think they did everything right considering how sucktastic their supporting cast is and how much I despise their team model), then New York did everything wrong. The way they're assembled now, they're going to eek into the playoffs in the 4-8 spot, get bounced in the 1st/2nd round, and fans will continually lament how close they are when they're really light years away.
I have no Idea why the Knicks couldn't have just waited to sign Melo. instead they blew a promising young team up to land a guy who is selfish and doesn't know how to use his teammates at all and can't seem to win. That Knick team would be sick if they were still together today

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06-17-2012, 06:52 PM
  #131
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It's just a piece of information. Barnes did struggle to create his own shot all year. He looked a step slow and clearly needs to tighten up his handle. He has lost some weight which I think has helped his explosiveness. How NBA teams use this information in conjunction with everything else will be interesting. I wonder if this will tip the scales for the Cavs at No. 4. I'm also hearing rumblings that Barnes may be in the mix with the Bobcats at No. 2.
From Chad Ford.

Bobcats gonna Bobcat.

For us though:

Quote:
No. I think they are seriously looking at trading the pick for a veteran three. If they can't ... I think it will be either Dion Waiters, Damian Lillard or Jeremy Lamb. Moe Harkless has an outside shot there as well.
Out of those three options, I'm hoping they trade rather than pick one of those guys.

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06-17-2012, 08:00 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
From Chad Ford.

Bobcats gonna Bobcat.

For us though:



Out of those three options, I'm hoping they trade rather than pick one of those guys.
Depends on what they can obtain with the pick tho. We have heard the rumors about Iggy and Gay both good players both probably better options then what will be avail at the number 8 pick, but in saying that I doubt we surround them with any more talent and there for Toronto would become an even more fringe team that's good enough to just squeak into the post season but exits rather quickly. I would rather keep picking go for one of Lamb or Rivers and hope they turn out. Rivers I think will be a good player hell has the potential to be an extremely good player if he can turn his attitude around.

Some guys I would like to see Toronto bring in through FA:

IN ( Current salaries)
Dragic PG $2,108,000
Humphries PF/C $8,000,000
JR Smith SG $2,338,709
Jordan Hill C/PF $2,855,760
Nate Robinson $785,487



OUT
Bargnani PF/C $9,250,000
Calderon PG $9,780,991
Kleiza SF $4,605,000
A. Johnson PF $5,550,000
Bayless PG - $3,042,280

I won't even try to work out what trade able players we could be looking at for these guys but, I would have no problem getting rid of any combination or all of the mentioned players.

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06-17-2012, 08:21 PM
  #133
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Options linked to Toronto (in no particular order):

1) Kyle Lowry (PG)
2) Tyreke Evans (Guard or SF)
3) Nicolas Batum (SF, PF or SG)
4) Steve Nash (PG)
5) Rudy Gay (SF)
6) Ersan Ilyasova (PF or SF)
7) Andre Iguodala (SG or SF)
8) Mickael Pietrus (SF or SG)
9) Goran Dragic (Combo guard)
10) Eric Gordon (SG)
11) Jeremy Lin (PG)

Which option would you guys be interested in?

Is Nash a valuable asset at this stage of his career? I doubt it.

The only reason which it was suggested was to bring more casual fans into the fold, I suppose. The "Canadian" factor does not overweigh the fact that he is not a good option for this team.

I doubt we can acquire Gay, and the options of Iguodala & Lin will introduce two players with some glaring flaws.

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06-17-2012, 09:53 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionda View Post
Options linked to Toronto (in no particular order):

1) Kyle Lowry (PG)
2) Tyreke Evans (Guard or SF)
3) Nicolas Batum (SF, PF or SG)
4) Steve Nash (PG)
5) Rudy Gay (SF)
6) Ersan Ilyasova (PF or SF)
7) Andre Iguodala (SG or SF)
8) Mickael Pietrus (SF or SG)
9) Goran Dragic (Combo guard)
10) Eric Gordon (SG)
11) Jeremy Lin (PG)

Which option would you guys be interested in?

Is Nash a valuable asset at this stage of his career? I doubt it.

The only reason which it was suggested was to bring more casual fans into the fold, I suppose. The "Canadian" factor does not overweigh the fact that he is not a good option for this team.

I doubt we can acquire Gay, and the options of Iguodala & Lin will introduce two players with some glaring flaws.
I haven't heard the Eric Gordan rumors. I guess for me it depends on weather or not he's gonna command a max level contract. That Knee problem that turned out being worse then they anticipated and only playing 9 games last year is a bit scary to any team offering this guy a contract all things considered.

In saying that tho Gordan is a hell of a player and if healthy would do a hell of a lot for Toronto . He's a legit 3 point threat and loves to shoot it, he can drive has a solid frame and is a combo guard. Eric Gordan and Goran Dragic back court would be pretty interesting.

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06-17-2012, 11:27 PM
  #135
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Eric Gordon hasn't been linked to Toronto at all. And if he's smart he'll stay in NO and form a deadly twosome with AD.

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06-18-2012, 12:13 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Joey24 View Post
Depends on what they can obtain with the pick tho. We have heard the rumors about Iggy and Gay both good players both probably better options then what will be avail at the number 8 pick, but in saying that I doubt we surround them with any more talent and there for Toronto would become an even more fringe team that's good enough to just squeak into the post season but exits rather quickly. I would rather keep picking go for one of Lamb or Rivers and hope they turn out. Rivers I think will be a good player hell has the potential to be an extremely good player if he can turn his attitude around.

Some guys I would like to see Toronto bring in through FA:

IN ( Current salaries)
Dragic PG $2,108,000
Humphries PF/C $8,000,000
JR Smith SG $2,338,709
Jordan Hill C/PF $2,855,760
Nate Robinson $785,487



OUT
Bargnani PF/C $9,250,000
Calderon PG $9,780,991
Kleiza SF $4,605,000
A. Johnson PF $5,550,000
Bayless PG - $3,042,280

I won't even try to work out what trade able players we could be looking at for these guys but, I would have no problem getting rid of any combination or all of the mentioned players.
The problem with guys like Lamb and Rivers is that they have some major holes in their game. If we're completely honest, this franchise has shown a shocking lack of ability to develop talent.

I'd rather gamble on getting an established talent like Gay, and trying to surround him with complimentary players than trying to develop a excellent starter. Especially at 8, trying to grab a player like that at this spot is difficult. With our scouting history, I wouldn't bet on it.

Considering NBA draft picks have among the highest bust rates in all pro sports, I'd rather get an established upper-tier starter than draft as low as we are and hope for one.

Completely agree on your OUT list. I've been on the trade Bargnani train for a while. This franchise will never win with him as the starting PF. For a legit 7 footer, I've never seen a guy who's as allergic to the paint as him. Awful rebounder(Worst rebounding rate this season among his peers) and soft defensively(worst defensive plays among his peers this season).

I'd rather have a guy like JJ Hickson instead of Bargnani. I think the Rockets are keeping Dragic(they signed his brother to play in summer league), but Lowry is definitely on the outs. If it's possible to swing a trade for Lowry, I'd do everything in my power to do so. Including offering up the 2013 1st.

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06-18-2012, 12:45 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
The problem with guys like Lamb and Rivers is that they have some major holes in their game. If we're completely honest, this franchise has shown a shocking lack of ability to develop talent.

I'd rather gamble on getting an established talent like Gay, and trying to surround him with complimentary players than trying to develop a excellent starter. Especially at 8, trying to grab a player like that at this spot is difficult. With our scouting history, I wouldn't bet on it.

Considering NBA draft picks have among the highest bust rates in all pro sports, I'd rather get an established upper-tier starter than draft as low as we are and hope for one.

Completely agree on your OUT list. I've been on the trade Bargnani train for a while. This franchise will never win with him as the starting PF. For a legit 7 footer, I've never seen a guy who's as allergic to the paint as him. Awful rebounder(Worst rebounding rate this season among his peers) and soft defensively(worst defensive plays among his peers this season).

I'd rather have a guy like JJ Hickson instead of Bargnani. I think the Rockets are keeping Dragic(they signed his brother to play in summer league), but Lowry is definitely on the outs. If it's possible to swing a trade for Lowry, I'd do everything in my power to do so. Including offering up the 2013 1st.
Yea Lamb and Rivers are two guys I have been interested in for a while. Though I despise Rivers attitude, I do love his ability on the court, IMO there are not many guys in any draft year with his offensive instincts. In saying that it's to his fault imo but if he's willing to change I think he could potentially become the top player out of this draft. He kinda reminds me of young Kobe in his draft year. Loads of talent but questions about his attitude and cockiness / Willingness to be coached.

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06-18-2012, 01:58 AM
  #138
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I've warmed up considerably to Terrence Ross among the SG's rumored to be there at 8.

He's a threat to score from all over, great athlete and actually good on D.

It doesn't seem like we're considering him, which is unfortunate but I like him as a prospect. He has the potential to be one of the better SG's from this draft class IMO.

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06-18-2012, 09:56 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Eric Gordon hasn't been linked to Toronto at all. And if he's smart he'll stay in NO and form a deadly twosome with AD.
And since when have we been linked to Tyreke? He's just a more overrated DeRozan.

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06-18-2012, 01:58 PM
  #140
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And since when have we been linked to Tyreke? He's just a more overrated DeRozan.
it was mentioned in passing last week by a couple of media sources. I don't think it was anything as concrete as "the Raptors want Tyreke Evans". It was more like "the Kings could shop Evans, and maybe Toronto might want in on that."

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06-18-2012, 03:27 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
it was mentioned in passing last week by a couple of media sources. I don't think it was anything as concrete as "the Raptors want Tyreke Evans". It was more like "the Kings could shop Evans, and maybe Toronto might want in on that."
Lets hope not. Evans is such a one trick pony, sure he can slash but he has absolutely no shot and once the hope go the guy will be completely useless.

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06-18-2012, 03:53 PM
  #142
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Bulls are apparently willing to deal Luol Deng for a lottery pick.

He's only 27, and would fill a need, but there are significant injury concerns there.

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06-18-2012, 05:32 PM
  #143
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Bulls are apparently willing to deal Luol Deng for a lottery pick.

He's only 27, and would fill a need, but there are significant injury concerns there.
he's got 3 years left on his contract and is more the likely to old to be a solid contributor when we are ready to contend. Not to mention he's making 12+ , 13+, and 14+ million a season over the next three seasons. I don't mind Dang but he's defiantly not going to push this team into the playoffs and he's imo not young enough to be a core piece of this team when were ready to contend.

So where is the logic in trading for a player like Dang from a Toronto perspective? Personally I would keep the pick and select Lamb or Rivers, take my chances there and build some depth through free agency make a few trades and work from there.

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06-18-2012, 07:27 PM
  #144
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Not that he was ever in the running for the Raptors, but NBA doctors have apparently red flagged Jared Sullinger over what are believe to be concerns about his back.

That could alter the landscape a bit, as he was a possibility to go in that 7-15 range around the Raptors pick.

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06-18-2012, 07:40 PM
  #145
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John Hollinger's PER-projected draft board:

Quote:
1. Anthony Davis
2. Thomas Robinson
3. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
4. Dion Waiters
5. Andre Drummond


6. Quincy Miller
7. Jared Sullinger
8. Terrence Jones
9. John Henson
10. Royce White


11. Bradley Beal
12. Harrison Barnes
13. Tony Wroten
14. Kendall Marshall
15. Marquis Teague


16. Draymond Green
17. Jeremy Lamb
18. Damian Lillard
19. Austin Rivers
20. Doron Lamb


21. Furkan Aldemir
22. Will Barton
23. Tyler Zeller
24. Evan Fournier
25. Tyshawn Taylor


26. Meyers Leonard
27. Terrence Ross
28. Perry Jones
29. Festus Ezeli
30. Fab Melo


31. Kostas Sloukas
32. Henry Sims
33. Terrell Stoglin
34. Kostas Papanikolaou
35. Moe Harkless


36. Leon Radosevic
37. JaMychal Green
38. Andrew Nicholson
39. Drew Gordon
40. Garrett Stutz


41. Robert Sacre
42. Arnett Moultrie
43. Elias Harris
43. William Buford
44. Jae Crowder
45. Jared Cunningham


46. Jordan Taylor
47. John Jenkins
48. Orlando Johnson
49. Jeffrey Taylor
50. Tomas Satoransky


51. Quincy Acy
52. Maalik Wayns
53. Tornike Shengelia
54. Scott Machado
55. Mike Scott


56. J'Covan Brown
57. Reggie Hamilton
58. Khris Middleton
59. Tony Mitchell
60. Miles Plumlee
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...ba-draft-rater

This would make me feel better about the potential for a Waiters pick if Beal and Barnes weren't so low.

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06-18-2012, 07:43 PM
  #146
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Also Jay Bilas' top 30 is up as well:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-coll...-prospects-ncb

From the Raptors perspective, the interesting rankings are:

5 - Barnes
7 - Lamb
8 - Lillard
9 - Waiters
11-Rivers

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06-18-2012, 09:55 PM
  #147
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Rivers vs. Waiters, who do you pick and why?

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06-18-2012, 10:41 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Rivers vs. Waiters, who do you pick and why?
I'm taking Waiters. Rivers isn't a great athlete, which could hurt his ability to penetrate and beat more athletic NBA players, taking away his most marketable skill. He also has more of a rep as a chucker and a selfish offensive player, whereas Waiters is supposed to also be a decent passer, and in spite of the praise Rivers gets for his crossover, Waiters is supposed to also be a top flight ball-handler.

FWIW, Chad Ford rates Watiers as the 2nd best SG in teh draft, while Rivers is #5 (with Lamb and Terrence Ross between them)

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06-19-2012, 12:02 AM
  #149
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I'd take any of Lamb/Waiters/Lillard/marshall over Rivers. Stay away from him BC.

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06-19-2012, 12:40 AM
  #150
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Why does Rivers get a rep as being a chucker? He shot 43.3% this year which seems decent for a freshman.

He did attempt a fair amount of 3's though. Nearly 5 a game.

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