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Habs/Leafs draft day trade

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Old
06-06-2012, 03:40 AM
  #51
tp71
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Originally Posted by Habsrule View Post
I am the OP and this is how I feel the teams are thinking going into the draft.

1-EDM-Yakupov/Murray---depends if they go with the best player or biggest need.

2-CLB-Yakupov/Murray/Galchenyuk/Forsberg---they have had bad luck with Russians in the past and may pass on Yakupov and Grigorenko. if they do not want defense Murray does not get picked.

3-MON-Yakupov/Galchenyuk/Grigorenko/Forsberg---if Yakupov is available he gets picked. if not they go with one of the three forwards.

4-NYI-Murray/Dumba/Galchenyuk/Grigorenko/Forsberg---I feel as if the Islanders want to draft a D. If Murray is available he gets picked here if not maybe Dumba. If not one of the three forwards left.

5-TOR-Galchenyuk/Grigorenko/Forsberg---they take the left overs and pick which ever one of these three are left.



With the original trade offer the Leafs would get their top choice of which prospect to draft. Montreal upgrades their D and take who ever if left available.
Here's my view then. It's a pointless move for the Leafs. The top 5 save Nail are very close in terms of talent. The Leafs would prefer a center, but assuming that one of Forsberg, Galchenyuk or Grigorenko will be left, I would be happy with either one of them. On the off chance Murray is left, I'd be thrilled all the same.

Basically, I'm happy letting everyone else choose, and just take whoever is left from that 5. It isn't worth trading a Schenn to move up two spots to take someone who probably doesn't have a whole ton of more talent as of now.

I'd prefer Galchenyuk over Forsberg and Grigorenko, but I wouldn't be giving up Schenn for him, when he may just fall to 5 anyways. If he doesn't, there's two other great picks waiting for the taking.

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06-06-2012, 04:06 AM
  #52
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Not a fan of either team thank god. But did Schenn play only 13 to 14 minutes a game no pk time no pp time -30 ga/ta ratio and makes 3.6million for a #6 dman. Sign me up. Also didnt any of u watch how ****** him and dion were at the WC on the big ice. Murry at 18 was leaps and bounds better

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Old
06-06-2012, 09:00 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by svat View Post
haha, habs drop down two spots and get an albatross contract in return. works for me.
I really hop you are not referring to Schenn's contract as an albatross.

He is well worth the money!

2008-2009 - 14 pts
2009-2010 - 17 pts
2010-2011 - 22 pts
2011-2012 - 22 pts

He gets an avg ice time of 16 minutes. He gets no PP time, and is on the 3rd pairing and yet his pts are increasing every season.

YOU WISH YOU HAD A PLAYER LIKE SCHENN.

Instead of losers like Gomez, Gionta, Cole, Plekanec, Moen, Gorges, Eller.

Talk about over paid and over valued and unskilled.

Carey Price is the only good thing you guys have going, and I hope your GM is smart enough to draft Grigorenko or a center of his ilk cause you guys are a black hole down the middle, and pretty much every place else.

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06-06-2012, 09:04 AM
  #54
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A terrible contract for a horrible palyer, that's exactly what the Habs need.

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Old
06-06-2012, 10:35 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by svat View Post
your stats that you used are pretty damning actually.



hits: hits are prone to scorer bias, and ultimately don't really tell you much about how good a player is.

blocked shots: lots of blocked shots means you were in your own end a lot, having the puck constantly being put on your net. hardly good defense.

TK/GA differential: with context this stat helps. if he had played hard competition, his poor differential would make sense. but he had a bad differential while playing middling competition.

plus/minus: not really a good stat unless looking at career. and plus, being a moderate minus with admittedly bad goaltending is understandable if you played against the hardest competition, but again, he didn't. for a defensive defenseman, he sure didn't do a lot of defending.
You are wong, again.

Yes, hits are subject to some scorer bias. 270 hits is a telling stat, though, and it is an impressive stat in a defensive defenceman who you want punishing the opposition when they enter or stay in your zone.

In a game where one team is better than the other team, having a defenceman willing to sacrifice the body and block a significant number of shots is very important. You might want to remember that there is a team on the ice working with Schenn as well as one working against his. Blocking shots is an important measure of how well defenders defend the goal from opposing players' shots. Using YOUR logic, Gorges, McDonough, Girardi, Bryan Allen, Seabrook, Hamonic, and 68 other TOP NHL defencemen are worse than Schenn since he was 74th in blocked shots in the league. You do need to invest some time in learning the importance of each stat you try to trash.

I have already stated that his takeaway to giveaway ratio is not good. I pointed out it was a poor -30. That is NOT the only stat to consider when looking at the value of a defenceman. Just for fun, though, did you know that Chara had a -40 giveaway to takeaway differential? Drew Doughty had a -39 differential. According to you, those are guys who suck at playing defence. There are lots of defencemen who have less than stellar giveaway/takeaway differential for multiple reasons. Again, this is why we need to look at all of the stats and watch the player play the game.

Schenn's entire team had less than stellar +/- stats. That is why it is a stat that reflects on the whole team, not just the player. His team's golatending was a wreck, and the forwards didn't exactly contribute that well to helping on defence. Schenn's -6 was 8th amongst his team if you look at players who played 40 or more games. That tells knowledgeable fans that he DID do his job better than a lot of others when he was on the ice.

You need to learn to look at the whole player. He had 270 hits, 115 blocked shots, scored over 20 points while only being on the ice for 16 minutes per game. He isn't an elite defenceman, yet, but he is far better than you understand or give him credit for. You also have to look at who was on the ice with him.

He is a decent, young defenceman, who has the potential to be an elite shut down force who punishes people in his own end. There are plenty of teams that would love to have him. Most Habs fans would love to have him. We might, as Habs fans, argue over how much we would want to give for him, but he would be amazing to place alongside Markov. As I said earlier, Schenn and the 5th for the 3rd and Weber is something I would think about depending upon who was on the board after the 1st two picks were taken.

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06-06-2012, 11:06 AM
  #56
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Obviously not a fan of either team. With that said the leafs get hosed here and by a fair margin.

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06-06-2012, 11:33 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 81Leafs50 View Post
I really hop you are not referring to Schenn's contract as an albatross.

He is well worth the money!

2008-2009 - 14 pts
2009-2010 - 17 pts
2010-2011 - 22 pts
2011-2012 - 22 pts

He gets an avg ice time of 16 minutes. He gets no PP time, and is on the 3rd pairing and yet his pts are increasing every season.

YOU WISH YOU HAD A PLAYER LIKE SCHENN.

Instead of losers like Gomez, Gionta, Cole, Plekanec, Moen, Gorges, Eller.

Talk about over paid and over valued and unskilled.

Carey Price is the only good thing you guys have going, and I hope your GM is smart enough to draft Grigorenko or a center of his ilk cause you guys are a black hole down the middle, and pretty much every place else.
You know you trashed the Habs in order to respond to some fan from another team even though it is a Habs fan who was defending Schenn? Next time try reading more than one post before you trash a team that missed the playoffs for the first time since 2007. When was the last time your team MADE the playoffs? Look to your own team's multiple problems before trashing another team, and at least try to be smart enough to attack the team of the person who is trashing your player before blindly lashing out at a team for no good reason.

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Old
06-06-2012, 11:56 AM
  #58
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If I were the Habs GM I would counter offer:

Habs
5th Pick
Kadri

Leafs
3rd Pick
Kaberle

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Old
06-06-2012, 12:34 PM
  #59
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No thanks. Kadri is not anything close to the value of Schenn. We do not need another smallish winger. Other than Kessel, who is NOT available for the 3rd and deservedly so, there is nothing on the Leafs' wings to get the 3rd from us, even if added to the 5th. I am not saying guys like Lupul are trash, I am simply saying they have enough flaws that Montreal would not want one of them even if added to the 5th for the 3rd overall. Only someone like Gardiner, Phaneuf or Schenn (adding or subtracting picks or players from either side depending upon which of those 3 are in the deal) would be enough to pry the 3rd from Montreal.

Montreal and Toronto have the same problems, so they are not ideal trading partners.

In another thread I wondered about somethig like Phaneuf and Toronto's 2013 1st for our 3rd and Kaberle, but even that is a flawed deal. I would consider it because I have concerns about all of the top offensive prospects in this year's draft, though. However, I already know it will get set on fire by fans of both teams. Sigh...I better go buy some flame retardant clothing for when I post on this site...

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06-06-2012, 03:59 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
You are wong, again.

Yes, hits are subject to some scorer bias. 270 hits is a telling stat, though, and it is an impressive stat in a defensive defenceman who you want punishing the opposition when they enter or stay in your zone.

In a game where one team is better than the other team, having a defenceman willing to sacrifice the body and block a significant number of shots is very important. You might want to remember that there is a team on the ice working with Schenn as well as one working against his. Blocking shots is an important measure of how well defenders defend the goal from opposing players' shots. Using YOUR logic, Gorges, McDonough, Girardi, Bryan Allen, Seabrook, Hamonic, and 68 other TOP NHL defencemen are worse than Schenn since he was 74th in blocked shots in the league. You do need to invest some time in learning the importance of each stat you try to trash.

I have already stated that his takeaway to giveaway ratio is not good. I pointed out it was a poor -30. That is NOT the only stat to consider when looking at the value of a defenceman. Just for fun, though, did you know that Chara had a -40 giveaway to takeaway differential? Drew Doughty had a -39 differential. According to you, those are guys who suck at playing defence. There are lots of defencemen who have less than stellar giveaway/takeaway differential for multiple reasons. Again, this is why we need to look at all of the stats and watch the player play the game.

Schenn's entire team had less than stellar +/- stats. That is why it is a stat that reflects on the whole team, not just the player. His team's golatending was a wreck, and the forwards didn't exactly contribute that well to helping on defence. Schenn's -6 was 8th amongst his team if you look at players who played 40 or more games. That tells knowledgeable fans that he DID do his job better than a lot of others when he was on the ice.

You need to learn to look at the whole player. He had 270 hits, 115 blocked shots, scored over 20 points while only being on the ice for 16 minutes per game. He isn't an elite defenceman, yet, but he is far better than you understand or give him credit for. You also have to look at who was on the ice with him.

He is a decent, young defenceman, who has the potential to be an elite shut down force who punishes people in his own end. There are plenty of teams that would love to have him. Most Habs fans would love to have him. We might, as Habs fans, argue over how much we would want to give for him, but he would be amazing to place alongside Markov. As I said earlier, Schenn and the 5th for the 3rd and Weber is something I would think about depending upon who was on the board after the 1st two picks were taken.
hits: what? nothing you wrote tells me how he helps keep the puck off his net.

other players with high amounts of blocked shots: those players you listed differ from schenn in one crucial aspect, which you haven't addressed, which is the quality of competition that they face.

Chara and Doughty have similar differentials because they play against top competition, and also more often than not are making longer passes to start a legitimate breakout.

Again, you have no clue what you are talking about. Schenn was pretty bad against BAD competition (3rd and 4th lines). If Habs fans want him on their team, go ahead. It just means that my Bruins are more likely to beat them cause they won't be able to get out of their own zone more often when Schenn is on the ice.

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Old
06-06-2012, 04:33 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by svat View Post
hits: what? nothing you wrote tells me how he helps keep the puck off his net.

other players with high amounts of blocked shots: those players you listed differ from schenn in one crucial aspect, which you haven't addressed, which is the quality of competition that they face.

Chara and Doughty have similar differentials because they play against top competition, and also more often than not are making longer passes to start a legitimate breakout.

Again, you have no clue what you are talking about. Schenn was pretty bad against BAD competition (3rd and 4th lines). If Habs fans want him on their team, go ahead. It just means that my Bruins are more likely to beat them cause they won't be able to get out of their own zone more often when Schenn is on the ice.
Wait, a Bruins fan not understanding the value of the "hits" statistic? You mean a Bruins fan, a fan of a team that bases its whole philosophy on pounding the opposition, doesn't understand the importance of hits in the NHL?!?! I hope you are kidding, pal.

I guess Ference at -31 is also a terrible defenceman, right? Boychuk is a -23, so he has to be horrible as well, right? Schenn would easily be in your top 4. Schenn hits more and blocks more shots than Ference while scoring almost as much with less playing time. Schenn hits more, blocks more shots, and almost out scored Corvo. Schenn hits more, blocks almost as many shots, and outscored Boychuk. Other than Chara, Schenn is better than or comparable to almost all of the Bruins' defencemen. I guess, other than Chara, your entire defence stank, right?

I would love to have Schenn in Montreal and watch him hammer some Bruins players. Add a hard hitting guy like him to what Subban and Emelin already do with your players and it will be a real fun time when we play against you next season. Man, add Schenn to a team with Staubitz, White, Subban, Emelin, Cole and Pacioretty and it will be real fun battling the Bruins next season. Even without Schenn I look forward to the battles we will have. The Bruins are my favourite team to hate and I love watching the hard fought battles between the two teams. Adding a Schenn to our back end would just add to the fun.

Wow, I would have thought a Bruins fan more knowledgeable about the value of a physical defender. Live and learn, I guess...

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06-06-2012, 10:04 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Wait, a Bruins fan not understanding the value of the "hits" statistic? You mean a Bruins fan, a fan of a team that bases its whole philosophy on pounding the opposition, doesn't understand the importance of hits in the NHL?!?! I hope you are kidding, pal.

I guess Ference at -31 is also a terrible defenceman, right? Boychuk is a -23, so he has to be horrible as well, right? Schenn would easily be in your top 4. Schenn hits more and blocks more shots than Ference while scoring almost as much with less playing time. Schenn hits more, blocks more shots, and almost out scored Corvo. Schenn hits more, blocks almost as many shots, and outscored Boychuk. Other than Chara, Schenn is better than or comparable to almost all of the Bruins' defencemen. I guess, other than Chara, your entire defence stank, right?

I would love to have Schenn in Montreal and watch him hammer some Bruins players. Add a hard hitting guy like him to what Subban and Emelin already do with your players and it will be a real fun time when we play against you next season. Man, add Schenn to a team with Staubitz, White, Subban, Emelin, Cole and Pacioretty and it will be real fun battling the Bruins next season. Even without Schenn I look forward to the battles we will have. The Bruins are my favourite team to hate and I love watching the hard fought battles between the two teams. Adding a Schenn to our back end would just add to the fun.

Wow, I would have thought a Bruins fan more knowledgeable about the value of a physical defender. Live and learn, I guess...
the importance of hits has not been statistically proven to correlate to neither wins nor possession. I don't give a **** if the bruins hit a lot or a little, I care if they win games. They were a good team this year because they had good possession players and good goaltending. Hits are stats that only naive fans care about too much.

Schenn would be on our 3rd pairing with McQuaid. and you are actually right, Ference isn't that good of a d-man. Seidenberg, Boychuk, Chara are miles ahead of Schenn though, so our D is fine (although we could use an upgrade on the top 4, which Schenn is not). You can whine about blocked shots all you want, but you haven't explained to me how being hemmed down in your own zone blocking shots helps you win games. Also, you should at least acknowledge that Schenn plays the 5th worst competition in comparison to his d-line teammates. If his coach trusted his defensive abilities, why was he sheltered and playing 14 minutes a night against 3rd and 4th lines?

Being a Bruins fan doesn't mean I need to be a childish naive fan. I care about winning games, and Schenn doesn't help teams do that.

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Old
06-06-2012, 10:27 PM
  #63
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Also, you should at least acknowledge that Schenn plays the 5th worst competition in comparison to his d-line teammates. If his coach trusted his defensive abilities, why was he sheltered and playing 14 minutes a night against 3rd and 4th lines?

Want the answer?

Schenn is not the most gifted skater, Ron Wilson's high speed, high energy system highlighted his weakness. This is not an excuse, it has been proven and proven again that his system was the cause of many defensive deficiencies of Toronto defencemen.

Exhibit A:

Beauchmin, barely a #3 D-man in Toronto, constant defensive lapses, went to Anaheim and became a solid #2 and became their #1 for the rest of the season.

Exhibit B:

Strong skating Kaberle had his strength's highlighted in Toronto, so much so that he was dealt for a 1st, 2nd and top prospect. However, since leaving Toronto entering defensive systems like Boston, Carolina and Montreal, he has not been able to succeed, hell he hasn't even looked decent.

Exhibit C:

Solid defensive defenceman Mike Komisarek regresses from a #3 to #7 D after leaving the defensive system of Montreal to join the offensive system in Toronto.

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06-06-2012, 10:35 PM
  #64
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Want the answer?

Schenn is not the most gifted skater, Ron Wilson's high speed, high energy system highlighted his weakness. This is not an excuse, it has been proven and proven again that his system was the cause of many defensive deficiencies of Toronto defencemen.

Exhibit A:

Beauchmin, barely a #3 D-man in Toronto, constant defensive lapses, went to Anaheim and became a solid #2 and became their #1 for the rest of the season.

Exhibit B:

Strong skating Kaberle had his strength's highlighted in Toronto, so much so that he was dealt for a 1st, 2nd and top prospect. However, since leaving Toronto entering defensive systems like Boston, Carolina and Montreal, he has not been able to succeed, hell he hasn't even looked decent.

Exhibit C:

Solid defensive defenceman Mike Komisarek regresses from a #3 to #7 D after leaving the defensive system of Montreal to join the offensive system in Toronto.
Beauchamin was pretty underrated in Toronto, and took a lot of flack for no reason. He has been better in Anaheim, but that could easily be due to the increase in quality of teammates.

Kaberle is a strange case, but he was having only a decent season when he was traded to the bruins, and getting by largely on reputation.

I don't think Toronto/Wilson stifled any one type of d-man. Just look at Phanuef since he went to Toronto. In the first years, he wasn't that great, but then lately, even under Wilson, Phaneuf has played like a legit #1 d-man.

I've never said Schenn can't get better, all I said was this season and the season past, he didn't do anything to really help a team win, and if he plays like he did this last season for the rest of the contract, then it is a terrible contract (paying a barely above replacement player like a legit top-4).

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06-06-2012, 10:38 PM
  #65
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CANNOT believe how many habs fans in this thread think It is worth trading down with the leafs in the draft just because Luke Schenn is involved! Really! Wow!

Don't get me wrong Schenn is an NHL defenseman BUT no way would he improve Habs D-core because he is simply a struggling bottom pairing D with very little offensive upside at he moment. Heck, he is not even an improvement over Weber IMO. Habs already have a prospect in the same mould in their pool who could potentially crack Habs lineup next year but with better potential IMO in Tinordi, only bigger and meaner. Add Subban, Gorges, Emelin and prospects who have fairly good chance of making it to the NHL within the next two years in Beaulieu and Ellis, would Schenn continue his current development path (looks like Komisarek 2.0) , he woul be passed over quickly in Montreal and out of the top 6 in D.

This would actually be a horrible deal for Montreal since Schenn doesn't address a pressing need nor does he improve the team. I'm fairly confident Leafs management team get this offer from Montreal and they don't think twice and make the trade.

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06-06-2012, 10:44 PM
  #66
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No doubt about it, Schenn needs to play better than he did this year. His contract states he should be a good 2nd pairing Defenseman which he absolutely was not. He has the potential to be there but this year he was a mediocre third pairing Defenseman. Having a lot of "hits" doesn't change that.

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06-06-2012, 10:50 PM
  #67
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Beauchamin was pretty underrated in Toronto, and took a lot of flack for no reason. He has been better in Anaheim, but that could easily be due to the increase in quality of teammates.

Kaberle is a strange case, but he was having only a decent season when he was traded to the bruins, and getting by largely on reputation.

I don't think Toronto/Wilson stifled any one type of d-man. Just look at Phanuef since he went to Toronto. In the first years, he wasn't that great, but then lately, even under Wilson, Phaneuf has played like a legit #1 d-man.

I've never said Schenn can't get better, all I said was this season and the season past, he didn't do anything to really help a team win, and if he plays like he did this last season for the rest of the contract, then it is a terrible contract (paying a barely above replacement player like a legit top-4).
Beauchemin was definitely as bad as he was made out to be, Kaberle was having a good season not great but it was still worlds better than anything he's produced recently. Im not saying all D suffer, it is just a weird case of slower skaters getting exposed while strong skaters succeeding rather easily. Before anyone writes him off as a struggling bottom pairing D, think back to his rookie season, his 3rd season, or at least give him a chance to re-bound.

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Originally Posted by HockeyFan87 View Post
CANNOT believe how many habs fans in this thread think It is worth trading down with the leafs in the draft just because Luke Schenn is involved! Really! Wow!

Don't get me wrong Schenn is an NHL defenseman BUT no way would he improve Habs D-core because he is simply a struggling bottom pairing D with very little offensive upside at he moment. Heck, he is not even an improvement over Weber IMO. Habs already have a prospect in the same mould in their pool who could potentially crack Habs lineup next year but with better potential IMO in Tinordi, only bigger and meaner. Add Subban, Gorges, Emelin and prospects who have fairly good chance of making it to the NHL within the next two years in Beaulieu and Ellis, would Schenn continue his current development path (looks like Komisarek 2.0) , he woul be passed over quickly in Montreal and out of the top 6 in D.

This would actually be a horrible deal for Montreal since Schenn doesn't address a pressing need nor does he improve the team. I'm fairly confident Leafs management team get this offer from Montreal and they don't think twice and make the trade.
Hmmm, very little offensive upside?

Luke Schenn ES points 20
PK Subban ES points 21

This with Subban getting 5-8 more ES minutes a night (too lazy to look up exact numbers).

Trade is terrible regardless, its poor asset management. Last season Subban was arguably better than Schenn, one off season has caused literally everyone to turn on him. You do not give up on a 22 year old former 5th overall pick who has as recently as last year shown he's capable of playing a #2 role. Not to mention the value difference between the 2nd and 6th pick in this draft is marginal at best.

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06-06-2012, 10:59 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Beauchemin was definitely as bad as he was made out to be, Kaberle was having a good season not great but it was still worlds better than anything he's produced recently. Im not saying all D suffer, it is just a weird case of slower skaters getting exposed while strong skaters succeeding rather easily. Before anyone writes him off as a struggling bottom pairing D, think back to his rookie season, his 3rd season, or at least give him a chance to re-bound.



Hmmm, very little offensive upside?

Luke Schenn ES points 20
PK Subban ES points 21


This with Subban getting 5-8 more ES minutes a night (too lazy to look up exact numbers).

Trade is terrible regardless, its poor asset management. Last season Subban was arguably better than Schenn, one off season has caused literally everyone to turn on him. You do not give up on a 22 year old former 5th overall pick who has as recently as last year shown he's capable of playing a #2 role. Not to mention the value difference between the 2nd and 6th pick in this draft is marginal at best.
Leafs: 231 goals, Habs: 212 goals. There's a reason Schenn doesn't play on the power play. Most Defensemen fall into a very narrow range of even strength points mostly because Defensemen don't typically account for too much influence on the points that they receive 5 on 5. Passing a puck to Kessel who skates from center ice to score doesn't indicate Schenn has a good offensive game.

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06-06-2012, 11:19 PM
  #69
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Leafs: 231 goals, Habs: 212 goals. There's a reason Schenn doesn't play on the power play. Most Defensemen fall into a very narrow range of even strength points mostly because Defensemen don't typically account for too much influence on the points that they receive 5 on 5. Passing a puck to Kessel who skates from center ice to score doesn't indicate Schenn has a good offensive game.
Not saying he has a good offensive game, just underrated. A 30 point D is considered a good offensive D, while Schenn is a low 20, 30 is not out of the realm of possibilities. I consider him a good defensive D with a decent offensive game at the moment. If everything falls into place, hell be a solid shutdown D with a Ryan Suter-lite offensive game.

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06-06-2012, 11:21 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Beauchemin was definitely as bad as he was made out to be, Kaberle was having a good season not great but it was still worlds better than anything he's produced recently. Im not saying all D suffer, it is just a weird case of slower skaters getting exposed while strong skaters succeeding rather easily. Before anyone writes him off as a struggling bottom pairing D, think back to his rookie season, his 3rd season, or at least give him a chance to re-bound.



Hmmm, very little offensive upside?

Luke Schenn ES points 20
PK Subban ES points 21

This with Subban getting 5-8 more ES minutes a night (too lazy to look up exact numbers).

Trade is terrible regardless, its poor asset management. Last season Subban was arguably better than Schenn, one off season has caused literally everyone to turn on him. You do not give up on a 22 year old former 5th overall pick who has as recently as last year shown he's capable of playing a #2 role. Not to mention the value difference between the 2nd and 6th pick in this draft is marginal at best.
If you look at the people I've been arguing with in this thread, they have all said that he wasn't that bad this season when he was. I too believe that he absolutely can bounce back (he is 22), but it's not a bet I'd be willing to make, especially given how bad the contract will be if he doesn't. That's all.

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06-06-2012, 11:22 PM
  #71
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don't want Schenn, maybe for a 2nd or so but not to trade down.

He was number 6 on one of the worst D cores in the league, DO NO WANT

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06-06-2012, 11:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
don't want Schenn, maybe for a 2nd or so but not to trade down.

He was number 6 on one of the worst D cores in the league, DO NO WANT
Your name is very fitting.

Just by using your logic, i don't want Eller, maybe for a 3rd (he was almost outscored by Schenn). He played on the 3rd line on one of the words offences in the league.


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06-06-2012, 11:32 PM
  #73
WarriorofTime
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Not saying he has a good offensive game, just underrated. A 30 point D is considered a good offensive D, while Schenn is a low 20, 30 is not out of the realm of possibilities. I consider him a good defensive D with a decent offensive game at the moment. If everything falls into place, hell be a solid shutdown D with a Ryan Suter-lite offensive game.
Suter averages over 40 points a year on a team that plays a very strict defensive system. Not easy to do. That's an ambitious thing to hope for.

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06-06-2012, 11:35 PM
  #74
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Suter averages over 40 points a year on a team that plays a very strict defensive system. Not easy to do. That's an ambitious thing to hope for.
I sware, some people see a big-name and OMG No way he becomes so-and-so. Didn't say his production will be that of Suter's, i said Schenn's offensive game resembles Suter's, just a slower, watered down version.

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06-06-2012, 11:41 PM
  #75
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I sware, some people see a big-name and OMG No way he becomes so-and-so. Didn't say his production will be that of Suter's, i said Schenn's offensive game resembles Suter's, just a slower, watered down version.
It was a very bizarre comparison to make. Suter is one of the best Powerplay Defenseman in the League. Schenn shouldn't be anywhere near a team's Powerplay.

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