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Old
06-08-2013, 11:46 AM
  #626
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Rights traded to Dallas, and signed a two year deal at $5 million/year. At age 39 no less.

This reeks of desperation. And makes Wideman's contract look good.
Looks atrocious at first glance, but he was pretty good this year. That said, he will soon be on the wrong side of 40 and 5M$ is still really just too much.

The cap hit also isn't really relevant in Dallas other than to reach the floor.

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06-08-2013, 05:48 PM
  #627
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Oilers fire head coach Ralph Kruger and rumor is his successor will be Dallas Eakins. As a Calgary fan I don't like this because Edmonton is really getting a great coach.

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06-08-2013, 05:52 PM
  #628
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Oilers fire head coach Ralph Kruger and rumor is his successor will be Dallas Eakins. As a Calgary fan I don't like this because Edmonton is really getting a great coach.
Meh. Hopefully they finish 9th.

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06-08-2013, 05:59 PM
  #629
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Kind of sad to see all the teams around Calgary improving their front office yet the Flames are sticking with Feaster.

It is amusing though to see the Oilers hire their fourth head coach in the last five years.

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06-08-2013, 06:18 PM
  #630
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Kind of sad to see all the teams around Calgary improving their front office yet the Flames are sticking with Feaster.

It is amusing though to see the Oilers hire their fourth head coach in the last five years.
Which teams have improved their front office? The Oilers kept the old boys club going, Van scape goated AV and continue to let Gillis run the team he barely built. You could argue that Dallas has upgraded their GM but they also have a owner who is willing to spend money where Joe had to work on a shoe string budget which will be more help then the gm.

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06-08-2013, 07:49 PM
  #631
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Which teams have improved their front office? The Oilers kept the old boys club going, Van scape goated AV and continue to let Gillis run the team he barely built. You could argue that Dallas has upgraded their GM but they also have a owner who is willing to spend money where Joe had to work on a shoe string budget which will be more help then the gm.
Improved more in the sense that they fired guys who weren't getting the job done. Teams actually made changes since things weren't working to a satisfactory degree.

Yeah, MacTavish is part of the 'olds boys club' in Edmonton, but he's also a massive step up from Steve 'Catsup or Ketchup' Tambellini. MacTavish is at least going to try and improve the team through trades and what not. And Krueger was a terribly ineffective coach for current edition of the Oilers - they need structure more than anything which Eakins should provide.

And Vigneault wasn't scapegoated - his message and voice had worn out, which happens everywhere. Back-to-back first round exits from a team expecting with cup expectations demands accountability. Should Gillis have been fired as well? Yes, if nothing more than for screwing up the Luongo situation. But at the Canucks made a change somewhere.

Nieuwendyk made some terrible trades, draft picks and signings during his time. And if he was on a shoe-string budget, maybe he shouldn't have blown 2M on Adam Pardy. Nill is a pretty significant step up regardless.

Meanwhile, Feaster does far worse than most of the guys above, but still has a job.

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06-08-2013, 07:55 PM
  #632
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Improved more in the sense that they fired guys who weren't getting the job done. Teams actually made changes since things weren't working to a satisfactory degree.

Yeah, MacTavish is part of the 'olds boys club' in Edmonton, but he's also a massive step up from Steve 'Catsup or Ketchup' Tambellini. MacTavish is at least going to try and improve the team through trades and what not. And Krueger was a terribly ineffective coach for current edition of the Oilers - they need structure more than anything which Eakins should provide.

And Vigneault wasn't scapegoated - his message and voice had worn out, which happens everywhere. Back-to-back first round exits from a team expecting with cup expectations demands accountability. Should Gillis have been fired as well? Yes, if nothing more than for screwing up the Luongo situation. But at the Canucks made a change somewhere.

Nieuwendyk made some terrible trades, draft picks and signings during his time. And if he was on a shoe-string budget, maybe he shouldn't have blown 2M on Adam Pardy. Nill is a pretty significant step up regardless.

Meanwhile, Feaster does far worse than most of the guys above, but still has a job.
feaster hasnt done worse than any of those gms. he has made a couple questionable moves but that will happen in hindsight when you are rebuilding a team.

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06-08-2013, 08:03 PM
  #633
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Improved more in the sense that they fired guys who weren't getting the job done. Teams actually made changes since things weren't working to a satisfactory degree.

Yeah, MacTavish is part of the 'olds boys club' in Edmonton, but he's also a massive step up from Steve 'Catsup or Ketchup' Tambellini. MacTavish is at least going to try and improve the team through trades and what not. And Krueger was a terribly ineffective coach for current edition of the Oilers - they need structure more than anything which Eakins should provide.

And Vigneault wasn't scapegoated - his message and voice had worn out, which happens everywhere. Back-to-back first round exits from a team expecting with cup expectations demands accountability. Should Gillis have been fired as well? Yes, if nothing more than for screwing up the Luongo situation. But at the Canucks made a change somewhere.

Nieuwendyk made some terrible trades, draft picks and signings during his time. And if he was on a shoe-string budget, maybe he shouldn't have blown 2M on Adam Pardy. Nill is a pretty significant step up regardless.

Meanwhile, Feaster does far worse than most of the guys above, but still has a job.
I think all are valid points but I also think GM's have a long term job I mean drafts take 5 years at least to see what we got from it and we were already a team in shambles. I think Feaster has his faults but he deserves at least 4 or 5 years to see how his drafting has gone. If he is a poor trader but a great drafter it would be a poor time to let him go.

I think constantly changing directions is a equally dangerous. We should stick it out and see how his plan comes together. Look at Toronto they fired Burke right when his team was coming together, I think they may end up regretting that decision.

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06-08-2013, 08:49 PM
  #634
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feaster hasnt done worse than any of those gms. he has made a couple questionable moves but that will happen in hindsight when you are rebuilding a team.
Uh, the rebuild only started in March; Feaster was the GM for a whole two years before that.

Feaster was brought in because he sold himself as the guy who could get the Flames back into the playoffs without rebuilding. How many times did we have to hear him say 'rebuild' was a dirty word; that the Flames would only 'retool' but would still compete?

Based on the initial premise of Feaster's hiring, he's failed miserably. And that should be enough to get him terminated in a most organizations, let alone things like the offer sheet fiasco.

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I think all are valid points but I also think GM's have a long term job I mean drafts take 5 years at least to see what we got from it and we were already a team in shambles. I think Feaster has his faults but he deserves at least 4 or 5 years to see how his drafting has gone. If he is a poor trader but a great drafter it would be a poor time to let him go.

I think constantly changing directions is a equally dangerous. We should stick it out and see how his plan comes together. Look at Toronto they fired Burke right when his team was coming together, I think they may end up regretting that decision.
That's my central issue with Feaster; he doesn't have a plan. And it should be painfully obvious to see.

He came in saying he could get this team into the playoffs without rebuilding. That the team had to get away from the big, old and slow model and instead, get faster and more skilled. All of which could be accomplished on the 'fly'.

Two years later however, he's now saying the Flames are too small, too passive, need more size and grit. And guess what, the Flames are now indeed rebuilding.

I don't have a big problem with Feaster's drafting, but only because he's delegated that responsibility to Weisbrod. Removing Feaster and keeping Weisbrod in charge of the draft won't change that aspect, but could at least improve other areas of weakness.

And the Flames have done nothing but change directions over the last decade; constantly moving from defensive systems to offensive systems because there's never been a long term plan for the organization.

2003-2006 -> Super defensive system under D.Sutter
2006-2009 -> More open, offensive system; eventually all offensive no defense with Keenan
2009-2012 -> Super defensive system under B.Sutter
2012-2013 -> More open, offensive system; occasions of all offensive no defense under Hartley

And the fault behind this obviously isn't on Feaster alone; the fact that King still has a hand in non-business related hockey operations is a travesty and big reason for the Flames struggles. Success starts from the top; the president of hockey operations (who is often the GM as well) sets the stage - he's the one who creates the overall philosophy of the club, i.e. lets replicate what the Kings are doing, or Hawks, etc. They then go and hire a GM who best suited to achieving that vision (or do it themselves) and go about creating a roster that fits their initial vision. The GM and the president then hire a coach that fits that style of play they wish to present. Everything should work together.

The Flames however are complete mess internally. The president's a used car salesmen that just caters to popular opinion. The GM frequently changes their mind with regards to the overall style of the club, meaning there's never a chance to properly assemble a roster that fits a particular method. And finally, there's a revolving door of coaches because of course, no one can get a whole lot out of a patchwork roster.

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06-08-2013, 09:14 PM
  #635
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he didnt sell the future to chase an 8th place finish either. he added pieces while rebuilding the prospect pool. what gm could of made the playoffs with this team without trading away 1st round picks and prospects.

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06-09-2013, 02:53 AM
  #636
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he didnt sell the future to chase an 8th place finish either. he added pieces while rebuilding the prospect pool. what gm could of made the playoffs with this team without trading away 1st round picks and prospects.
Precisely. The Flames didn't have the roster to compete over the last few years. So why then, the big show and act saying that he could? Why sell everyone on the idea of a retool even though the chances it would work were slim and thus delay the inevitable rebuild by two years when returns on assets would be much lower?

And if you choose to believe the words of King and Feaster, they were never coerced into making decisions by anyone. The decision to retool? Theirs. The decision to tear it down when they did? Also theirs in their version of events.

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06-09-2013, 09:53 AM
  #637
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You think the rebuild only started in March? I would suggest that it started with trading Regehr.

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06-09-2013, 12:08 PM
  #638
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I got to agree with Calculon on his assessment of the organization. It really seems like King has been the problem all along. I've learned you never let a salesman run the show, as they are (in my experience) obsessed about the short term bottom line and nothing else.

And because Feaster isn't a hockey guy, he appears indecisive. He lets Ward develop the games of Kolanos and Taylor more than Horak and Irving. He allowed Sutter to conduct his circus. But my biggest problem with Feaster is his lack of understanding of the issues. Nowhere in his post season assessment did I hear the word faceoff. And then to complain about size after building a small team?

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06-09-2013, 03:56 PM
  #639
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You think the rebuild only started in March? I would suggest that it started with trading Regehr.
A big part of the reason Regehr and Kotalik were moved for prospects was to clear cap space so they could throw a massive contract offer at a 30 year old Brad Richards.

That's not rebuilding.

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06-09-2013, 05:08 PM
  #640
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Feaster is okay as a GM but that's it. He should not be the head guy, he's a good assistant GM and contract negotiator and should know all the rules of the CBA but had a gaff of epic proportions this year. Feaster is also an amazing spin Dr. and people in town here need to realize this that because he's a lawyer he's highly trained in how to twist public perception in his favor.

The guy has done some good, but in no way can I confidently say it has out weighed the bad. I'm still in favor of bringing Burke in, hopefully he's still available next offseason when Feaster and Hartley are fired.

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06-09-2013, 05:15 PM
  #641
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Uh, the rebuild only started in March; Feaster was the GM for a whole two years before that.

Feaster was brought in because he sold himself as the guy who could get the Flames back into the playoffs without rebuilding. How many times did we have to hear him say 'rebuild' was a dirty word; that the Flames would only 'retool' but would still compete?

Based on the initial premise of Feaster's hiring, he's failed miserably. And that should be enough to get him terminated in a most organizations, let alone things like the offer sheet fiasco.



That's my central issue with Feaster; he doesn't have a plan. And it should be painfully obvious to see.

He came in saying he could get this team into the playoffs without rebuilding. That the team had to get away from the big, old and slow model and instead, get faster and more skilled. All of which could be accomplished on the 'fly'.

Two years later however, he's now saying the Flames are too small, too passive, need more size and grit. And guess what, the Flames are now indeed rebuilding.

I don't have a big problem with Feaster's drafting, but only because he's delegated that responsibility to Weisbrod. Removing Feaster and keeping Weisbrod in charge of the draft won't change that aspect, but could at least improve other areas of weakness.

And the Flames have done nothing but change directions over the last decade; constantly moving from defensive systems to offensive systems because there's never been a long term plan for the organization.

2003-2006 -> Super defensive system under D.Sutter
2006-2009 -> More open, offensive system; eventually all offensive no defense with Keenan
2009-2012 -> Super defensive system under B.Sutter
2012-2013 -> More open, offensive system; occasions of all offensive no defense under Hartley

And the fault behind this obviously isn't on Feaster alone; the fact that King still has a hand in non-business related hockey operations is a travesty and big reason for the Flames struggles. Success starts from the top; the president of hockey operations (who is often the GM as well) sets the stage - he's the one who creates the overall philosophy of the club, i.e. lets replicate what the Kings are doing, or Hawks, etc. They then go and hire a GM who best suited to achieving that vision (or do it themselves) and go about creating a roster that fits their initial vision. The GM and the president then hire a coach that fits that style of play they wish to present. Everything should work together.

The Flames however are complete mess internally. The president's a used car salesmen that just caters to popular opinion. The GM frequently changes their mind with regards to the overall style of the club, meaning there's never a chance to properly assemble a roster that fits a particular method. And finally, there's a revolving door of coaches because of course, no one can get a whole lot out of a patchwork roster.
I do see what your saying (I have often agreed with you on this subject) the one reason I think we should keep Feaster is his drafting is leaving me optimistic. We need to give his prospects time and see what he has drafted, I am worried if we bring in a new GM he would he will want to change scouts and will give Feasters picks the same treatment as Irving got. I don't think he is all that great but if his drafting works out he will be forgiven for his mistakes imo.

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06-09-2013, 05:23 PM
  #642
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I don't know if anyone else say this but if Bylsma stays with the Pens they are screwed.

"He's a No. 1 goalie for this franchise and he will be going forward." when speaking about Fluery

What a joke.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=425068

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06-09-2013, 06:12 PM
  #643
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I don't know if anyone else say this but if Bylsma stays with the Pens they are screwed.

"He's a No. 1 goalie for this franchise and he will be going forward." when speaking about Fluery

What a joke.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=425068
dont see how you can keep vokoun as your #1. pens have a solid crop of young D and goalies so maybe they go with fleury til they get a few good young dmen on the team/ a young goalie cracks the roster.

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06-09-2013, 06:17 PM
  #644
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dont see how you can keep vokoun as your #1. pens have a solid crop of young D and goalies so maybe they go with fleury til they get a few good young dmen on the team/ a young goalie cracks the roster.
How can you not let them figure it out in training camp next year? Vokoun wasn't the problem but Fluery was and yet Fluery doesn't even have to compete for his starting job next year. This is why the Pens folded its a sense of entailment they have.

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06-09-2013, 06:38 PM
  #645
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How can you not let them figure it out in training camp next year? Vokoun wasn't the problem but Fluery was and yet Fluery doesn't even have to compete for his starting job next year. This is why the Pens folded its a sense of entailment they have.
fleury has always been solid in the regular season. with a new coach and a defensive puck control system he could suceed in the playoffs

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06-09-2013, 06:39 PM
  #646
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fleury has always been solid in the regular season. with a new coach and a defensive puck control system he could suceed in the playoffs
That was Bylsma saying it so it seems like he is staying and Fluery should be moved immediately before his reputation of a playoff choker becomes worse. The Pens aren't looking to simply make the playoffs they want to win the cup he has to go.

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06-09-2013, 06:55 PM
  #647
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I do see what your saying (I have often agreed with you on this subject) the one reason I think we should keep Feaster is his drafting is leaving me optimistic. We need to give his prospects time and see what he has drafted, I am worried if we bring in a new GM he would he will want to change scouts and will give Feasters picks the same treatment as Irving got. I don't think he is all that great but if his drafting works out he will be forgiven for his mistakes imo.
I understand where you're coming from but isn't Weisbrod in charge of drafting? For example, Feaster wanted to trade the 2012 first round pick, but Weisbrod told him to keep it so they could draft Jankowski. And he was the one who scouted these picks for the most part.

The Flames could still fire Feaster, fire King or at least remove him from hockey operations but keep him in charge of the new arena project, and promote Weisbrod to GM (and maybe president of hockey operations). Letting go of Feaster and King would remove much of the image problems the organization has, and also help with the consistency issues with regards to the system.

While I'm not entirely behind the idea of Weisbrod as GM, I think it's a good bet he'd be miles better than the Feaster/King combo.

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06-09-2013, 07:01 PM
  #648
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I understand where you're coming from but isn't Weisbrod in charge of drafting? For example, Feaster wanted to trade the 2012 first round pick, but Weisbrod told him to keep it so they could draft Jankowski. And he was the one who scouted these picks for the most part.

The Flames could still fire Feaster, fire King or at least remove him from hockey operations but keep him in charge of the new arena project, and promote Weisbrod to GM (and maybe president of hockey operations). Letting go of Feaster and King would remove much of the image problems the organization has, and also help with the consistency issues with regards to the system.

While I'm not entirely behind the idea of Weisbrod as GM, I think it's a good bet he'd be miles better than the Feaster/King combo.
weisbrod told feaster to try to trade the first untill he saw jankowski. then he changed his mind.

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06-09-2013, 07:08 PM
  #649
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I understand where you're coming from but isn't Weisbrod in charge of drafting? For example, Feaster wanted to trade the 2012 first round pick, but Weisbrod told him to keep it so they could draft Jankowski. And he was the one who scouted these picks for the most part.

The Flames could still fire Feaster, fire King or at least remove him from hockey operations but keep him in charge of the new arena project, and promote Weisbrod to GM (and maybe president of hockey operations). Letting go of Feaster and King would remove much of the image problems the organization has, and also help with the consistency issues with regards to the system.

While I'm not entirely behind the idea of Weisbrod as GM, I think it's a good bet he'd be miles better than the Feaster/King combo.
Personally I would move Feaster to take over King's spot and promote Weisbrod but as it is Feaster is merely the face of the GM position. Feaster has a pretty solid mix of people around that he listens to, if we are going to blame Feaster for a lot of trades and signings then Weisbrod will be no better as he is his hockey mind.

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06-09-2013, 08:48 PM
  #650
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weisbrod told feaster to try to trade the first untill he saw jankowski. then he changed his mind.
Interesting; I hadn't heard that. I simply recall the TSN immediate post-draft interview with Feaster, Jankowski and Duthie, where Feaster said he was looking to trade the pick before Weisbrod called him and told him to keep it after scouting Jankowski.

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Personally I would move Feaster to take over King's spot and promote Weisbrod but as it is Feaster is merely the face of the GM position. Feaster has a pretty solid mix of people around that he listens to, if we are going to blame Feaster for a lot of trades and signings then Weisbrod will be no better as he is his hockey mind.
King knows his way around the city and I think would be better suited to getting the arena project accomplished but still, I'd be content to let everybody go. And that includes Weisbrod if necessary.

A new GM might want to bring in his own guys and would undoubtedly favour his own draft picks, but I don't think they'd get rids of guys just because they weren't his. Like Irving, they might not get the benefit of the doubt, but if they show they belong, there's not a whole lot they can do. Backlund comes to mind in this case.

And I don't see why a new GM would revamp the scouting services. Goulet was hired by D.Sutter, but he's still here. Tod Button was hired more than a decade ago, but he still has a job, somehow.

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