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Old
06-09-2013, 09:18 PM
  #651
herashak
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yeah feaster was looking to trade it because weisbrod was telling him to. saw it in a video on the flames site post draft.

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06-10-2013, 01:10 AM
  #652
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Hud, even if Feaster has a good drafting record he still needs to be held accountable for all aspects of his job. Trades are just as important as drafting because its affects the Flames roster and salary cap status today and in the future. IMO, he's made poor trades for Iginla, Jbo and Regehr, which made up the bulk of our core. Drafting is a huge part of the job and he has delegated that duty to his #2 in command. As a lawyer, he should have had all his basis covered in the ROR fiasco and he definitely should of at the very least put a phone call into the league.

Again, I think he's okay. But I also think he's an extremely smooth talker and I think he's incredibly lucky to still be employed by the Flames. I wouldn't at all be sad if he was let go.

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06-10-2013, 01:18 AM
  #653
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Hud, even if Feaster has a good drafting record he still needs to be held accountable for all aspects of his job. Trades are just as important as drafting because its affects the Flames roster and salary cap status today and in the future. IMO, he's made poor trades for Iginla, Jbo and Regehr, which made up the bulk of our core. Drafting is a huge part of the job and he has delegated that duty to his #2 in command. As a lawyer, he should have had all his basis covered in the ROR fiasco and he definitely should of at the very least put a phone call into the league.

Again, I think he's okay. But I also think he's an extremely smooth talker and I think he's incredibly lucky to still be employed by the Flames. I wouldn't at all be sad if he was let go.
I hated the ROR fiasco but Iginla and Jbo had NTC and so he was at their mercy and there are rumors Regehr rejected a trade to SJ. I don't think he has been great but a lot of his bad moves have also been in a grey area (players traded with NTC, CBA not complete but wording very fishy). I am not a huge fan of his but I don't think all his bad moves are as bad as we make them out to be.

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06-10-2013, 02:11 AM
  #654
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Hud, even if Feaster has a good drafting record he still needs to be held accountable for all aspects of his job. Trades are just as important as drafting because its affects the Flames roster and salary cap status today and in the future. IMO, he's made poor trades for Iginla, Jbo and Regehr, which made up the bulk of our core. Drafting is a huge part of the job and he has delegated that duty to his #2 in command. As a lawyer, he should have had all his basis covered in the ROR fiasco and he definitely should of at the very least put a phone call into the league.

Again, I think he's okay. But I also think he's an extremely smooth talker and I think he's incredibly lucky to still be employed by the Flames. I wouldn't at all be sad if he was let go.
The NTCs and NMCs severely limited the options and the returns for players. Iginla only gave a list of 4 teams, that is not a good position to create a bidding war.

Same likely goes for Bouwmeester, his list was likely longer but it was immediately shortened because of the ownerships unwillingness to retain any of the cap in the trade, so in the end it was likely 3 or 4 teams in the running.

Regehr was addition by subtraction. I know people like to hate on the deal because of the 2nd and Kotalik, but quite frankly Butler has been as good as Regehr has the past 2 seasons at a fraction of the cost.

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06-10-2013, 10:26 AM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
The NTCs and NMCs severely limited the options and the returns for players. Iginla only gave a list of 4 teams, that is not a good position to create a bidding war.

Same likely goes for Bouwmeester, his list was likely longer but it was immediately shortened because of the ownerships unwillingness to retain any of the cap in the trade, so in the end it was likely 3 or 4 teams in the running.

Regehr was addition by subtraction. I know people like to hate on the deal because of the 2nd and Kotalik, but quite frankly Butler has been as good as Regehr has the past 2 seasons at a fraction of the cost.
In regards to the NMC's, that's absolutely a valid point, however he failed to even get a top 3 prospect back from either organization for the face of our franchise and the best available dman at this years deadline. I'm not its an easy task but it's Feaster's job to be a shrewd GM and create demand for his players when making trades, and looking at his history I'd say that's his weakest area on the job.

I've always said this, but the Regehr trade was just terrible from the start. Buffalo got a better return 2 years later for an older and slower player who had less value. And Butler is not as competent as Regehr. Sure he's a better skater, but the mental gaffes this guy makes sometimes are mind blowing. Regehr was the Kings 3rd best dman these past playoffs and was extremely reliable. I'd take him back over Butler in a heart beat.

I think a big part of Jay's problem in making trades is that he's not a hockey guy. He looks at deals more from a business prespective and relys on his staff for an evaluation on players.

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06-10-2013, 12:15 PM
  #656
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In regards to the NMC's, that's absolutely a valid point, however he failed to even get a top 3 prospect back from either organization for the face of our franchise and the best available dman at this years deadline. I'm not its an easy task but it's Feaster's job to be a shrewd GM and create demand for his players when making trades, and looking at his history I'd say that's his weakest area on the job.
Big problem for me as well.
Dallas got one for Morrow. Insane we got two guys who at the start of the season were near the 10th mark in the Pens depth chart; hell, I believe reading somewhere it was unknown whether Pittsburgh would throw Hanowski an offer when he was done with St. Cloud even.

Best D-man at the deadline?
Apparently it costs a first, a d-man that isn't ranked in a top 20 prospect list, and a goalie that most people had forgotten about unless they followed the Swiss league.

I was truly disappointed when I didn't see Rattie or Cole in the deal for Bouw. It's kind of annoying really. And I know I'm now going to get the "Rattie's overrated, blah blah blah." He might be, but he's been successful at every level of competition so far and fills a much bigger role in the Calgary depth charts than anything we got back from both the Iggy and Bouw trades (a top 6 RW).

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06-10-2013, 01:03 PM
  #657
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^ I believe part of the reason why Dallas got J.Morrow was because of the Neal/Goligoski deal that happened prior. Some suggest it was a make-up trade.

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06-10-2013, 02:10 PM
  #658
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I too was very dissapointed to not see rattie in the bouw deal, didnt expect cole but really thought feaster would target feaster, however we must look at the positives; cundari played good at the end of the season and Berra looked very solid during the worlds this year. Hopefully both can turn into something for the flames, even if its something minor like a #6 D and a backup, than atleast we got something plus a 1st in a very good draft where we may get a very good prospect

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06-10-2013, 04:35 PM
  #659
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In regards to the NMC's, that's absolutely a valid point, however he failed to even get a top 3 prospect back from either organization for the face of our franchise and the best available dman at this years deadline. I'm not its an easy task but it's Feaster's job to be a shrewd GM and create demand for his players when making trades, and looking at his history I'd say that's his weakest area on the job.

I've always said this, but the Regehr trade was just terrible from the start. Buffalo got a better return 2 years later for an older and slower player who had less value. And Butler is not as competent as Regehr. Sure he's a better skater, but the mental gaffes this guy makes sometimes are mind blowing. Regehr was the Kings 3rd best dman these past playoffs and was extremely reliable. I'd take him back over Butler in a heart beat.

I think a big part of Jay's problem in making trades is that he's not a hockey guy. He looks at deals more from a business prespective and relys on his staff for an evaluation on players.
Well put. And while others argue that NMC/TC impede a GMs ability to obtain full market value, other GMs are able to get it done in limited settings. Circumstances is not an excuse for incompetence, especially when Feaster had a role in some of these circumstances.

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06-10-2013, 06:35 PM
  #660
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The 1sts were the most significant thing of value in both of the big deals this year, so hopefully Weisbrod and crew select the right player. Cundari looks to be okay, and Agostino sounds okay to, but to me at best if these guys become regulars in the show, they more than likely will be good depth players. He should of targeted prospects that have the chance of becoming impact players if they reach the show. In both the Jbo and Iginla deals, I would of preferred we got Rattie and a 1st and Maatta/Pouliot and a 1st. I think everyone in the hockey world would of accepted those deals as "ok" or fair value.

If Jay really wanted Berra, he should of offered a conditinal 5th to the Blues in a separate trade.

Hell I'd easily be in favor of AH being our GM over Feaster.

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06-10-2013, 06:52 PM
  #661
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The 1sts were the most significant thing of value in both of the big deals this year, so hopefully Weisbrod and crew select the right player. Cundari looks to be okay, and Agostino sounds okay to, but to me at best if these guys become regulars in the show, they more than likely will be good depth players. He should of targeted prospects that have the chance of becoming impact players if they reach the show. In both the Jbo and Iginla deals, I would of preferred we got Rattie and a 1st and Maatta/Pouliot and a 1st. I think everyone in the hockey world would of accepted those deals as "ok" or fair value.

If Jay really wanted Berra, he should of offered a conditinal 5th to the Blues in a separate trade.

Hell I'd easily be in favor of AH being our GM over Feaster.
and how would we get those elite prospects? iggy is no longer elite, bouw is a good #2 who gets payed like a great #1. who is giving up much for them?

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06-10-2013, 07:14 PM
  #662
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and how would we get those elite prospects? iggy is no longer elite, bouw is a good #2 who gets payed like a great #1. who is giving up much for them?
We had the most sought after forward and dman this past deadline. Look at previous years transactions for your answer.

Yes they had lists, but Iginla in particular had direct competition from opposing teams that ended up playing each other in the Eastern final, Feaster needed to leverage that to his advantage and he didn't.

Every top team wants a mobile dman like Bouwmeester. He looked better than Shattenkirk since joining the Blues. Again, the asking price should of been extremely high for both these guys.

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06-10-2013, 08:55 PM
  #663
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In regards to the NMC's, that's absolutely a valid point, however he failed to even get a top 3 prospect back from either organization for the face of our franchise and the best available dman at this years deadline. I'm not its an easy task but it's Feaster's job to be a shrewd GM and create demand for his players when making trades, and looking at his history I'd say that's his weakest area on the job.

I've always said this, but the Regehr trade was just terrible from the start. Buffalo got a better return 2 years later for an older and slower player who had less value. And Butler is not as competent as Regehr. Sure he's a better skater, but the mental gaffes this guy makes sometimes are mind blowing. Regehr was the Kings 3rd best dman these past playoffs and was extremely reliable. I'd take him back over Butler in a heart beat.

I think a big part of Jay's problem in making trades is that he's not a hockey guy. He looks at deals more from a business prespective and relys on his staff for an evaluation on players.
If no one was going to offer a top 3 prospect what was Feaster to do? Just say no and keep Iginla? His hands were tied.

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06-10-2013, 09:11 PM
  #664
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If no one was going to offer a top 3 prospect what was Feaster to do? Just say no and keep Iginla? His hands were tied.
They probably werent offered, but it seems funny that everyone felt like Feaster got the short of the stick on both deals. My point is, it's Feaster's job to create the appropriate value for his players. He traded Iginla days before the actual deadline, if he would of stuck to his guns and intially rejected the Pens offer, told them it wasn't enough and said Boston offered a better package, then I bet we would of seen a better return in regards to that specific deal. Shero clearly showed he was all in this year, Feaster should of squeezed him some more.

Things like that, along with the ROR debacle have me question his overall competence. I would say trades is Feaster's weakest area on the job.

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06-10-2013, 09:14 PM
  #665
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They probably werent offered, but it seems funny that everyone felt like Feaster got the short of the stick on both deals. My point is, it's Feaster's job to create the appropriate value for his players. He traded Iginla days before the actual deadline, if he would of stuck to his guns and intially rejected the Pens offer, told them it wasn't enough and said Boston offered a better package, then I bet we would of seen a better return in regards to that specific deal. Shero clearly showed he was all in this year, Feaster should of squeezed him some more.

Things like that, along with the ROR debacle have me question his overall competence. I would say trades is Feaster's weakest area on the job.
They felt like we got the short end because of the media. The media made it sound like we were going to make out like bandits in both deals and when we got realistic returns people were mad.

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06-10-2013, 09:32 PM
  #666
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They probably werent offered, but it seems funny that everyone felt like Feaster got the short of the stick on both deals. My point is, it's Feaster's job to create the appropriate value for his players. He traded Iginla days before the actual deadline, if he would of stuck to his guns and intially rejected the Pens offer, told them it wasn't enough and said Boston offered a better package, then I bet we would of seen a better return in regards to that specific deal. Shero clearly showed he was all in this year, Feaster should of squeezed him some more.

Things like that, along with the ROR debacle have me question his overall competence. I would say trades is Feaster's weakest area on the job.
And if Boston's deal had a time table, say I dunno 3 days before the deadline or else they go after Jagr? Ever loves to say what Feaster should have done but we simply don't know how it played out or what went on behind closed doors. The funny thing is when Boston's offer got leaked people thought it wasn't enough for Iginla so then that means the value most people thought Iginla held simply wasn't there does that fall on Feaster as well?

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06-10-2013, 10:25 PM
  #667
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In sales everyone knows its the seller's job to set the value, not the buyers.

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06-10-2013, 10:30 PM
  #668
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In sales everyone knows its the seller's job to set the value, not the buyers.
So if I say Babchuck for 5 1st's then people will lineup with offers or they laugh and say take a 7th and your lucky?

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06-10-2013, 10:44 PM
  #669
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So if I say Babchuck for 5 1st's then people will lineup with offers or they laugh and say take a 7th and your lucky?
No, but if you sell Babs for five 1st rounders, you've done your job (a good job). We expect Feaster to do more than just come into the office everyday. He's expected to excel, which he has not.

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06-10-2013, 10:51 PM
  #670
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No, but if you sell Babs for five 1st rounders, you've done your job (a good job). We expect Feaster to do more than just come into the office everyday. He's expected to excel, which he has not.
The vast majority of GM's don't excel, I don't think Feaster is great but the amount of hate he gets from people who have no idea of what happened behind closed doors is ridiculous. The best offer for Iginla was a 1st (possibly conditional) + B prospect + C prospect. That is the value many of us thought was fair so again how was he suppose to get any more?

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06-10-2013, 11:05 PM
  #671
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The vast majority of GM's don't excel, I don't think Feaster is great but the amount of hate he gets from people who have no idea of what happened behind closed doors is ridiculous. The best offer for Iginla was a 1st (possibly conditional) + B prospect + C prospect. That is the value many of us thought was fair so again how was he suppose to get any more?
That might be very well true, but if one of my staff came to me and said "well everyone else was doing a crappy job", I'd show them how personable I can be by chuckling before I fire them.

I don't care what the empirical value of Iggy so much as I want to feel impressed.

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06-10-2013, 11:07 PM
  #672
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That might be very well true, but if one of my staff came to me and said "well everyone else was doing a crappy job", I'd show them how personable I can be by chuckling before I fire them.

I don't care what the empirical value of Iggy so much as I want to feel impressed.
So because you over value Iginla Feaster must out due your evaluation or else he has done a poor job? The fact that only 3 teams made offers and they were all rather decent but nothing spectacular tells me his value to those teams was limited at best.

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06-10-2013, 11:07 PM
  #673
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we as flames fans were delusional to what iggy is worth.

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06-10-2013, 11:12 PM
  #674
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we as flames fans were delusional to what iggy is worth.
I hate agreeing with this guy. But he is right.

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06-10-2013, 11:18 PM
  #675
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And if Boston's deal had a time table, say I dunno 3 days before the deadline or else they go after Jagr? Ever loves to say what Feaster should have done but we simply don't know how it played out or what went on behind closed doors. The funny thing is when Boston's offer got leaked people thought it wasn't enough for Iginla so then that means the value most people thought Iginla held simply wasn't there does that fall on Feaster as well?
Your right it did happen behind closed doors and we'll never know what happened. I'm basing my assumptions off of multiple underwhelming trades and returns that Feaster has made since he's been in charge. As you said we'll never know for sure so I look at his history to paint a clearer picture.

Again my main problem with big Jay is that I see him as a very poor trader.

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