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Jay Bouwmeester

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06-05-2012, 12:20 PM
  #26
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
He's not overrated; he's overpaid. Those are two different concepts. I wouldn't even say he's overhyped because no one is hyping him anymore as the next great one. Three, four years ago sure, but definitely not for the past 3 years.

Bouwmeester isn't worth the $6.68M cap hit that he has, but he is a solid top-pairing defenceman. I don't think he's a #1 defenceman, but he's easily a very good #2 guy. He would be great with a player like Erik Karlsson, Drew Doughty, etc. He played extremely well with Duncan Keith at the WHC last month.
He's both overrated and overpaid. He's a below average top pairing defenseman.

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06-05-2012, 12:24 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
So that means he's terrible...

I'd say 90% of flames fans are happy with him. It is the supporting cast outside of Gio and Bouw that is horrible.

When you have Butler logging 1st line minute beside Bouwmeester for most of the season it doesn't take a lot of thought as to why Bouwmeester's +/- was so brutal.
But I guess your thinking never even made it that far
See, I'd agree with you if Butler's +/- weren't so much better than JBo's. How does that logic fly when Butler is -9 on the year and JBo is -21? Butler is an above average #5 playing in a role that is beyond his ability. What's the excuse for JBo?

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06-05-2012, 12:26 PM
  #28
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J-Bo is a #2 d-man, and definitely overpaid.

That said, if a team could return a bit of a bad contract back with him, I could see him getting something decent for Calgary

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06-05-2012, 12:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
See, I'd agree with you if Butler's +/- weren't so much better than JBo's. How does that logic fly when Butler is -9 on the year and JBo is -21? Butler is an above average #5 playing in a role that is beyond his ability. What's the excuse for JBo?
Much more ice-time and exposure to top lines, Butler also missed 14 games this year. Bouwmeester has no support cast to back him up. The flames only have 2 top 4 defenders, our backend is ****ing horrible outside of Jaybo and Gio.

Look I'm not saying Jaybo is a #1 dman. He is however, a solid top pairing dman who would be ideal as a #2.

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06-05-2012, 12:28 PM
  #30
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85% of the players in the league are over paid when based on past offensive numbers vs current, fans expected production for dollars ratio, injury history, a teams collective ineptitude, etc

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06-05-2012, 12:28 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Hackeybuff View Post
Jay at 6.8mil is not worth anything beyond a 2nd round pick .
He cannot alter a game in any way . All he does is eat minutes and try to stay out of trouble and you can get Bryan Allen to do that for half the cost.
As a Flames fan I agree. I do think there is a chance someone overpays hoping he turns his game around in a new locale. I think he could be a good fit on a team like NYI. The Habs did send McDonagh (good, not great prospect at the time) and a top 9 forward (Higgins) for Gomez under the same hope. I don't think Bouwmeester is as overpaid or as bad as Gomez.

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06-05-2012, 12:33 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
Much more ice-time and exposure to top lines, Butler also missed 14 games this year. Bouwmeester has no support cast to back him up. The flames only have 2 top 4 defenders, our backend is ****ing horrible outside of Jaybo and Gio.

Look I'm not saying Jaybo is a #1 dman. He is however, a solid top pairing dman who would be ideal as a #2.
Good post. Some fair points definitely. I still have the same opinion of JBo, but at least you make a rational argument.

I agree on the 2 top 4 defenders, I think it's our biggest weakness. Bigger than the #1 center hole actually. Where people lose me is when they try to say JBo is a better defenseman than Giordano. He is an average #2, where Gio is an excellent #2.

JBo did only play 4 minutes/game more than Butler though, and they played against similar competition so that is the one thing I take issue with.

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06-05-2012, 12:35 PM
  #33
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Last time I checked a #1D man who can play 30 minutes a night don't grow on trees. Yet asking for a roster player and a 1st is ludacris. LOL at the guy who suggested max a 2nd rounder.

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06-05-2012, 12:47 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
So that means he's terrible...

I'd say 90% of flames fans are happy with him. It is the supporting cast outside of Gio and Bouw that is horrible.

When you have Butler logging 1st line minute beside Bouwmeester for most of the season it doesn't take a lot of thought as to why Bouwmeester's +/- was so brutal.

But I guess your thinking never even made it that far
Since when does Calgary have defensive problems. The main issue is forwards not playing consistently and being unableto step up and score that key goal.

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06-05-2012, 12:49 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
So that means he's terrible...

I'd say 90% of flames fans are happy with him. It is the supporting cast outside of Gio and Bouw that is horrible.

When you have Butler logging 1st line minute beside Bouwmeester for most of the season it doesn't take a lot of thought as to why Bouwmeester's +/- was so brutal.

But I guess your thinking never even made it that far
Problem is that's been said about him since he was down here. I was happy to see him go, but thought he'd do better offensively up there than he has.

For those talking about him as a player, he's massively overpaid at that price. That's an offensive d-man's income, he's been a shutdown guy. Can't fault him, he just signed on the line, but Florida tried to offer him close to that. Thankfully he didn't sign.

Peca once said he's the easiest guy to play against, or something to that affect, I'm inclined to believe it. Bouw is a stamina freak and some are in awe of that. I think it hurts his game how much he's out there.

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Old
06-05-2012, 12:49 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Since when does Calgary have defensive problems. The main issue is forwards not playing consistently and being unableto step up and score that key goal.
completly disagree. Our biggest problem is our backend, 2nd is being weak up the middle and poor FO%. Though Calgary has problems at every position outside of the net.

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06-05-2012, 12:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Problem is that's been said about him since he was down here. I was happy to see him go, but thought he'd do better offensively up there than he has.

For those talking about him as a player, he's massively overpaid at that price. That's an offensive d-man's income, he's been a shutdown guy. Can't fault him, he just signed on the line, but Florida tried to offer him close to that. Thankfully he didn't sign.

Peca once said he's the easiest guy to play against, or something to that affect, I'm inclined to believe it. Bouw is a stamina freak and some are in awe of that. I think it hurts his game how much he's out there.
I think that as well...problem is that Calgary has to play him that much to even compete from game to game.

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06-05-2012, 01:02 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Since when does Calgary have defensive problems. The main issue is forwards not playing consistently and being unableto step up and score that key goal.
A lot of our defensive problems are masked by all-world goaltending in my opinion. I think we have some offensive problems too, but it doesn't mean the defense isn't an issue. I think we'd be bottom 10 in GA if Kipper didn't play as well as he did. Just look at our GA when he wasn't in the net. If would've put us tied for last in the league.

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06-05-2012, 01:23 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
He's both overrated and overpaid. He's a below average top pairing defenseman.
How can you possibly be a below average top pairing defenseman.

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06-05-2012, 01:37 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
How can you possibly be a below average top pairing defenseman.
Compared to other top pairing defensemen he's below average. But he's better than a typical 3-4 defenseman. I didn't think it was that difficult to understand.

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06-05-2012, 01:38 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
How can you possibly be a below average top pairing defenseman.
By being worse than most of the top line defenders...

But he's definitely underrated. He's a top pairing guy. Can Philly even afford him? He could be an interesting replacement for Timonen in the future.

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06-05-2012, 01:55 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
By being worse than most of the top line defenders...

But he's definitely underrated. He's a top pairing guy. Can Philly even afford him? He could be an interesting replacement for Timonen in the future.
Yes, the Flyers can afford him with giving a roster player back but I'd assume some roster player would be going back in a trade for him.

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06-05-2012, 02:02 PM
  #43
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Yes, the Flyers can afford him with giving a roster player back but I'd assume some roster player would be going back in a trade for him.
Who would you offer for him?

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06-05-2012, 02:10 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Tyler Sanguine View Post
As a Bruins fan, I'd love to see him on your top pair as well. Make an offer, and make sure it's an overpayment.
Lol, nice.

I don't thin Bouwmeester is that big of a upgrade on Carle, especially on that salary.

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06-05-2012, 02:21 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Lol, nice.

I don't thin Bouwmeester is that big of a upgrade on Carle, especially on that salary.
He's somewhat better than Carle. Things is, Carle is likely to get overpaid this summer too. I think Carle at 5 million and JBo at 6.67 million is kind of a wash.

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06-05-2012, 02:21 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Who would you offer for him?
No clue, I suck at player valuations. However, if I'm Philly, I don't move Voracek for Bouwmeester unless Jake's too tough to sign long-term.

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06-05-2012, 02:23 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
He's not overrated; he's overpaid. Those are two different concepts. I wouldn't even say he's overhyped because no one is hyping him anymore as the next great one. Three, four years ago sure, but definitely not for the past 3 years.

Bouwmeester isn't worth the $6.68M cap hit that he has, but he is a solid top-pairing defenceman. I don't think he's a #1 defenceman, but he's easily a very good #2 guy. He would be great with a player like Erik Karlsson, Drew Doughty, etc. He played extremely well with Duncan Keith at the WHC last month.
Amazes me how often people mistake overrated for overpaid.

If anything Bouwmeester is underrated after his time in Florida. He'd be a top pairing guy on anywehre between 15 and 25 teams in the league.

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06-05-2012, 02:24 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
there is more to the game than points and hits.

Bouwmeester is one of the smartest guys on the ice, he is good with the puck, always aware as to whats going on, logs a ton of minutes and has been misused by epic proportions since acquired by Calgary. He is not infallible but most the time his mistakes come from doing to much because of the guys he plays with.
This.

We all know his cap hit is brutal and has little offensive numbers to show. That's all a dead horse that's been beaten before.

It's his play without the puck that sets him aside. His skating and hockey IQ are phenomenal. There's a reason he plays 30 mins a night regardless of the pathetic supporting cast.

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06-05-2012, 02:39 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
Last time I checked a #1D man who can play 30 minutes a night don't grow on trees. Yet asking for a roster player and a 1st is ludacris. LOL at the guy who suggested max a 2nd rounder.
I am pretty sure I can name 30 D that I would take before J-Bo, therefore he would be a #2D

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06-05-2012, 02:50 PM
  #50
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I am pretty sure I can name 30 D that I would take before J-Bo, therefore he would be a #2D
Go on then

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