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Dreger "There will be offers for Schneider that will stop Gillis in his tracks."

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Old
06-06-2012, 07:11 PM
  #201
eyeball11
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Except of course you have a less coveted Varlamov fetching a first rounder from Colorado just last year. Supply and demand rules in hockey as well.
Now go through multiple years of real world drafts and tell me the odds of that amounting to anything that would stop someone in their tracks.


Last edited by eyeball11: 06-06-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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06-06-2012, 07:12 PM
  #202
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Probably because the Canucks would match and then they'd still be without a goaltender. Vancouver waited almost a decade for this goalie to develop to this point. He's not going to leave for just draft picks.
But then they'd have 10M+ in goaltending on the books and would be forced into a situation where they need to move one for less than market value. Which would probably be less than the compensation from the offersheet.

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Originally Posted by Rocky- View Post
I think if there was an offer sheet- the Canucks woyuld match. They would follow that up in the future by offersheeting the team that does so for their up and coming players or stars. The players and agents would love it- owners of all teams and league not so much. I doubt you will see an offer sheet but I've been wrong before. Again though- who ever puts out an offersheet should be prepared to see their players targeted.
Many say this but it never happens because any GM dumb enough to choose to make moves based on spite and revenge gets fired before they can do it. For example Buffalo and Anaheim didn't sign any Oilers despite their fans promises of future poachings.

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06-06-2012, 07:24 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Now go through multiple years of real world drafts and tell me the odds of that amounting to anything that would stop someone in their tracks.
Like I said Varlamov is not as valued as Schneider. And the first round pick could have ended up being a high one as Burke found out in a differen trade. I just don't buy the myth that goalies don't receive fair value. People just recite it without checking the facts. It's always about supply and demand.

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06-06-2012, 07:27 PM
  #204
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I think although offer sheets are valid- the league and owners frown against it for the most part. Bad for business. The St. Louis offer on Bernier being a reminder. It can happen- but there can also be consequences??

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06-06-2012, 07:33 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Like I said Varlamov is not as valued as Schneider. And the first round pick could have ended up being a high one as Burke found out in a differen trade. I just don't buy the myth that goalies don't receive fair value. People just recite it without checking the facts. It's always about supply and demand.
Coulda woulda shoulda. If the queen had nuts she'd be king. I've gone through multiple decades of goalie trades and found maybe one that worked out closely for both sides. I would suggest you try taking a closer look and tracking post trade. You'll soon discover which one is a myth.

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06-06-2012, 07:50 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Coulda woulda shoulda. If the queen had nuts she'd be king. I've gone through multiple decades of goalie trades and found maybe one that worked out closely for both sides. I would suggest you try taking a closer look and tracking post trade. You'll soon discover which one is a myth.
I just gave you one. Varlamov for a first round and a second round pick. No need to go back decades.

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06-06-2012, 07:54 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I just gave you one. Varlamov for a first round and a second round pick. No need to go back decades.
Vokoun to the Panthers for a firth (9th overall) and two second round picks.

I'd say Schneider would collect more, but what do I know?

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06-06-2012, 07:59 PM
  #208
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What if all this is a ploy to lower to asking price for Lou. Would be a dick move to inflate the price on Schneider, put Van's ass against a wall with 10+ tied to goalies, then try to get Lou for pittance. If Van doesn't match you get Schneider for some draft picks. If Van matches you could go out try to get Lou for half of the asking price.

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06-06-2012, 08:10 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
What if all this is a ploy to lower to asking price for Lou. Would be a dick move to inflate the price on Schneider, put Van's ass against a wall with 10+ tied to goalies, then try to get Lou for pittance. If Van doesn't match you get Schneider for some draft picks. If Van matches you could go out try to get Lou for half of the asking price.

the reverse has been suggested too: what if GMMG really wants Lu and all of this is to drive up the market for Schneids.

I personally think they want CS over Lu, and think the team plays better in front of him, but who knows the mind games GMs are going to play these days.

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06-06-2012, 08:20 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
What if all this is a ploy to lower to asking price for Lou. Would be a dick move to inflate the price on Schneider, put Van's ass against a wall with 10+ tied to goalies, then try to get Lou for pittance. If Van doesn't match you get Schneider for some draft picks. If Van matches you could go out try to get Lou for half of the asking price.
10+ in goaltending isn't going to happen.

2005 Averaged Salary Current Averaged Salary[10] Draft Pick Compensation
$1,020,348 and below No compensation
$1,020,348 to $1,545,981 Third-round pick
$1,545,981 to $3,091,963 Second-round pick
$3,091,963 to $4,637,944 First- and third-round pick
$4,637,944 to $6,183,925 First-, second-, and third-round pick
$6,183,925 to $7,729,907 Two first-round picks and a second- and third-round pick
$7,729,907 and above Four first-round picks

So to be 10+ (minus Lu's 5.33) someone would have to offer at least 4.67, meaning we take a first round pick, a second and third. If it goes into the "crazy" (6.183,925+...see Vanek) territory, we collect more and would be happy to collect. But by doing this, a retaliation on that teams RFAs would ensue (see the Backes/Bernier overpayments between Vancouver and St Louis).

All of this is assuming someone wants to take that route, there have been, like, 10 attempts since 1997, and the only successes have been Penner(4.3x5 years) and Chris Gratton(3.3x5 years). Both players were let go because they weren't worth that much to their teams, and both were not super effective players in hindsight.

Sakic(7x3 years), Fedorov(6.2x6 years), Ohlund(3.5x5 years), Kesler (1.9x1 year), Vanek(7.145x7), Backes(2.5x3 years), Bernier(2.5x1 year), and Hjalmersson(3.5x4 years( are the most recent to have been matched, all of them looking a double what they would have gotten (easily) from their teams. There is some loyalty with RFAs, and it seems recently, all the offers in the last 15 years have been very, very high offers. With the possible rise in salary, it's possible that the offers could top what we've seen so far too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_offer_sheets

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06-06-2012, 08:25 PM
  #211
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Only way Schneider is moved is for a top 10 pick with a possibility of more added depending on where in the top 10 the pick lies. Or for a young potential star dman like Hedman or an Elite or potentially elite winger to play with Kes. Schneider is going to be a Vezina candidate, and if he is going to be moved you will have to pay accordingly.

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06-06-2012, 09:26 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
10+ in goaltending isn't going to happen.

2005 Averaged Salary Current Averaged Salary[10] Draft Pick Compensation
$1,020,348 and below No compensation
$1,020,348 to $1,545,981 Third-round pick
$1,545,981 to $3,091,963 Second-round pick
$3,091,963 to $4,637,944 First- and third-round pick
$4,637,944 to $6,183,925 First-, second-, and third-round pick
$6,183,925 to $7,729,907 Two first-round picks and a second- and third-round pick
$7,729,907 and above Four first-round picks

So to be 10+ (minus Lu's 5.33) someone would have to offer at least 4.67, meaning we take a first round pick, a second and third. If it goes into the "crazy" (6.183,925+...see Vanek) territory, we collect more and would be happy to collect. But by doing this, a retaliation on that teams RFAs would ensue (see the Backes/Bernier overpayments between Vancouver and St Louis).

All of this is assuming someone wants to take that route, there have been, like, 10 attempts since 1997, and the only successes have been Penner(4.3x5 years) and Chris Gratton(3.3x5 years). Both players were let go because they weren't worth that much to their teams, and both were not super effective players in hindsight.

Sakic(7x3 years), Fedorov(6.2x6 years), Ohlund(3.5x5 years), Kesler (1.9x1 year), Vanek(7.145x7), Backes(2.5x3 years), Bernier(2.5x1 year), and Hjalmersson(3.5x4 years( are the most recent to have been matched, all of them looking a double what they would have gotten (easily) from their teams. There is some loyalty with RFAs, and it seems recently, all the offers in the last 15 years have been very, very high offers. With the possible rise in salary, it's possible that the offers could top what we've seen so far too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_offer_sheets
I can totally see up to the 6.1 happening. Will he get it probably not, but I can see the 4.7 to 6.1 range being offersheeted to him. I would give up a 1st 2nd, and 3rd for him. The first probably won't be a lottery anyway with him between the pipes. My personal number is 5.5/6 years if I offersheet him.

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06-06-2012, 09:51 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Canuckaholic19 View Post
Schneider is going to be a Vezina candidate, and if he is going to be moved you will have to pay accordingly.
Can I please learn how you got your psychic powers? Like really, you guys think he is going to fare better than Luongo and be the top guy in the NHL? (Multiple Pres. Trophies, gold medal, etc.)

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06-06-2012, 10:43 PM
  #214
Todds Chiropractory
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Can I please learn how you got your psychic powers? Like really, you guys think he is going to fare better than Luongo and be the top guy in the NHL? (Multiple Pres. Trophies, gold medal, etc.)
Doesn't take psychic abilities to see how good as Schneider is going to be. I suppose I took a lazy route of explaining my point of view because you are right I don't "know" anything about what will happen in the future. But in my many years of Canuck Fandom he is the best goalie I have seen between our pipes. Now I realise that we don't have the storied history of other franchises so that might now be saying all that much, but Schneider is simply better than Luongo is nearly if not all aspects it takes to be a successful goaltender in this league. Most people who watch Canucks games this past season will tell you the same thing, and its not like Luongo was bad, Luongo stole us multiple multiple games this past season, as did Schneider. But Schneider seemed to almost never let in that one questionable goal that Luongo was suspect to, and if he did let in a chincy one it didn't phase him. Schneider is such a technically sound goalie it seems he is never out of position, and when he is he does this.


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06-06-2012, 11:23 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
The following would stop Gillis in his tracks:

Stamkos for Schneider and Kesler
Giroux for Schneider and Kesler
Gardiner, Kadri, 5th overall pick for Schneider
Johanson, 2nd overall pick for Schneider
Any of the Oilers "big 4" for Schneider (including Yakupov in that)
Huberdeau and Gudbranson for Schneider
Patrick Kane for Schneider
Logan Couture and Ryane Clowe for Schneider
What? I didn't even know those words could be spoken...

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06-06-2012, 11:25 PM
  #216
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Take it for what it's worth.

Sonny ‏@sonny1981
Hearing from trusted source that Columbus is ante-ing for Schneider, offering 2nd overall for Cory+. Also heard Leafs offered Schenn+ 4 Cory

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06-06-2012, 11:26 PM
  #217
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how about Schneider and Kessler for Fleury and Staal?
That would definitely stop Gillis in his tracks because he'd have to double over with laughter and then compose himself before resuming walking.

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06-06-2012, 11:29 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Spezzator View Post
Take it for what it's worth.

Sonny ‏@sonny1981
Hearing from trusted source that Columbus is ante-ing for Schneider, offering 2nd overall for Cory+. Also heard Leafs offered Schenn+ 4 Cory
LOL, these two aren't even similar value-wise.

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06-06-2012, 11:30 PM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzator View Post
Take it for what it's worth.

Sonny ‏@sonny1981
Hearing from trusted source that Columbus is ante-ing for Schneider, offering 2nd overall for Cory+. Also heard Leafs offered Schenn+ 4 Cory
Schenn llolololololololololololol!!LOL!O!LO

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06-06-2012, 11:38 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Spezzator View Post
Take it for what it's worth.

Sonny ‏@sonny1981
Hearing from trusted source that Columbus is ante-ing for Schneider, offering 2nd overall for Cory+. Also heard Leafs offered Schenn+ 4 Cory
Dont know this guy or his source, but its good for some new thoughts.

If im GMMG and Columbus does offer the 2nd overall for Schneider +, depending on the + id probably take it and hope that one of Lack or Cannata can develope into a #1 behind Luo.

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06-06-2012, 11:40 PM
  #221
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LOL, these two aren't even similar value-wise.
how do you know this? maybe GM's value Schenn highly due to his terrific performance last year (this year he was mediocre) .. he was a 5th overall pick himself not too long ago ..
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Schenn llolololololololololololol!!LOL!O!LO
the maturity is strong in this post

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06-06-2012, 11:49 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
how do you know this? maybe GM's value Schenn highly due to his terrific performance last year (this year he was mediocre) .. he was a 5th overall pick himself not too long ago ..


the maturity is strong in this post
What they mean is that Schenn, at his cap-hit, and with his quality of play, is not comparable at all to the 2nd overall/is laughable as return for Schneider. While you may disagree, Canucks fans would rather keep their assets, and play Alberts/Rome/Salo all at cheaper cap hits, then trade Schneider for a player that does not solve any of the Canucks problems.


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06-06-2012, 11:50 PM
  #223
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I highly doubt Schneider is going anywhere. Luongo wants a fresh start. Fanbase has in large part turned away from Lu to Cory so keeping him is not very feasable- especially if Lu falters. An offersheet will be matched and retaliation down the line in offersheet the other teams assets. Luongo wouldn't be dealt to a team that offersheets Cory and Lu will be dealt- there is interest in him according to several broadcasters. Not going to guess on return- but he will be dealt.

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06-06-2012, 11:51 PM
  #224
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But then they'd have 10M+ in goaltending on the books and would be forced into a situation where they need to move one for less than market value. Which would probably be less than the compensation from the offersheet.



Many say this but it never happens because any GM dumb enough to choose to make moves based on spite and revenge gets fired before they can do it. For example Buffalo and Anaheim didn't sign any Oilers despite their fans promises of future poachings.
Teams know right now the Canucks won't want to go into next season with Luongo and Schneider. Doesn't matter, as long as there are multiple teams vying for one of Vancouver's goalies that will drive value.

Maybe research the David Backes offersheet followed up by the retalitory Steve Bernier offersheet...

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06-07-2012, 12:02 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
As per team1040 radio interview this morning.

Seems like cory schneider trade could be a possibility.

What kind of player could "Stop gillis in his tracks".
Schneider will NOT be starting next year for anybody else but Vancouver.

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