HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Luongo Trade Value

View Poll Results: What is Luongo's Value?
High Value (e.g., Schenn & Kadri / etc.) 57 13.87%
Moderate Value (e.g., Franson & MacArthur / etc.) 211 51.34%
Low Value (e.g., Franson / 2nd rounder / etc.) 99 24.09%
Negative Value (e.g., Komisarek / etc.) 30 7.30%
Highly Negative Value (e.g., Komisarek & Lombardi) 14 3.41%
Voters: 411. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-16-2012, 12:23 PM
  #601
TheLeastOfTheBunch
Registered User
 
TheLeastOfTheBunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,101
vCash: 500
MacArthur + Gunnarsson.

TheLeastOfTheBunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 12:26 PM
  #602
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Pre-Hitchcock: .924 sv%
With Hitchcock: .943 sv%

Granted, it was Halak's numbers who improved the most under Hitchcock.

I'm just so used to seeing Elliott get lit up by the Leafs (more specifically Kessel) when he was with the Senators. I'll have to see more than one good season to be interested in him.
Fair enough, point taken. Didn't think there was much of an increase. I just remembered he was still good pre-Hitchcock while Halak was struggling.

I know what you mean about the Elliott thing. It's just some players and some teams have certain goalies numbers. I also don't see St. Louis trading their platoon because they've likely realized by now that Halak will never be a 60+ game goaltender. He always has a slump in the season and is better suited for 45-55 games.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 12:26 PM
  #603
colchar
Registered User
 
colchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
No, actually, it's the exact opposite of reasonable.

THE LEAFS DO NOT WANT MASON RAYMOND. He's is not what this team needs, and Burke has no interest in picking up a small, soft player who won't even crack our top-6. WE'RE TRYING TO GET BIGGER.

The fact you Canucks fans are so quick to get rid of him shows exactly how valuable he is. He has close to no value to us, nor does he seem to have any with you.

The funniest thing here is how you somehow expect to get the #5 pick out of this. The market for Luongo has dried up. You've made your decision on which goaltender to go forward with, and don't even try to feed me this BS about choosing to trade Schneider instead, because that's not happening. Getting the #5 in a trade for Luongo ain't happening. Move on.

Kulemin is one season removed from a 30-goal season. He had a season plagued by personal issues. He didn't suddenly lose all of his talent forever. He IS a top-6 forward who will be a consistent 20-25 goal scorer for the foreseeable future. When he isn't scoring, he's skilled enough in other areas to still make an impact.

Franson is the only realistic piece of this trade. We have enough defensive depth to be able to let him go. He's that right-handed right defenceman your team is looking for. And he's from BC. Perfect fit. But he's only going to make $1.2-$1.5M this upcoming season, so...

...you can't expect us to take on a $5.33M contract for the next 10 years without taking back a salary dump. And don't give me that crap about a backdoor handshake deal where Luongo retires in 6 years. Players change their minds all the damn time. What if, at the age of 39, Luongo hasn't won a cup and wants to stick around for a few more years to have one last kick at the can? Suddenly it's an 8-year contract. This salary dump won't be Komisarek, we know that. But Lombardi, Armstrong or Connolly IS going back to even out the financial risk we're taking on.

You can have Franson, Lombardi and a 2nd for Luongo. Take it and run. The next offer won't be as good. You are in no position to be so demanding.

The day of the Luongo trade is going to be such a sweet day of vindication.

I am really starting to wonder if he will end up in Toronto at all.

colchar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 12:30 PM
  #604
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
MacArthur + Gunnarsson.
I could see a pick or prospect thrown in as well but this seems to be a reasonable assumption.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 12:32 PM
  #605
colchar
Registered User
 
colchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Haha, "there's a lot of options but I'm not going to say any of them because none of them are realastic".

You're a joke! Gretsky was traded when money could be traded in trades as well. I don't think you can compare that to a team trading away a number 1 goalie. Goalie's are probably the hardest position to acqurie via trade/signings because they are a dime a dozen.

Lol, continue to pull **** from your ass. What makes you thinking Tim Thomas doesn't plan to sit out for the year after he himself told the media, his coach, his team, his fans that he himself was going to sit out for the year?


Good Lord, why are you so ******** over this?

Can you not grasp that everyone is available for the right price? Is that really so difficult for you to understand?

If the Leafs decided they wanted another goalie, had assets the other team wanted, and were prepared to part with those assets the deal would be done.

I cannot comment on every goalie in the league because I do not have a list of what every GM wants for their team and, by the same token, you cannot dismiss the notion that they can trade for another goalie.

Luongo is not the only option available, there are others. And anyone assuming the Leafs need to grab a star goalie are being presumptuous as they could quite easily be looking at Scrivens after his playoff performance and have decided he is the future and that they do not need a star but only a competent, serviceable goalie for the next year or two until Scrivens is 100% ready to assume the #1 role in Toronto. Or are you unable to grasp that despite the simplicity of the idea?

Maybe you should get out of your Mom's basement, join the real world, develop some logical reasoning skills, and try grabbing half a clue.

colchar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 12:34 PM
  #606
colchar
Registered User
 
colchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
There has been lots of speculation that it is a ploy by Thomas (and a good one) to give him input into his trade destination since it seems that Boston was gearing up to trade him.

Some people seem unable to grasp that despite the simplicity of the idea.

colchar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 12:41 PM
  #607
Eb
TML
 
Eb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Good Lord, why are you so ******** over this?

Can you not grasp that everyone is available for the right price? Is that really so difficult for you to understand?

If the Leafs decided they wanted another goalie, had assets the other team wanted, and were prepared to part with those assets the deal would be done.

I cannot comment on every goalie in the league because I do not have a list of what every GM wants for their team and, by the same token, you cannot dismiss the notion that they can trade for another goalie.

Luongo is not the only option available, there are others. And anyone assuming the Leafs need to grab a star goalie are being presumptuous as they could quite easily be looking at Scrivens after his playoff performance and have decided he is the future and that they do not need a star but only a competent, serviceable goalie for the next year or two until Scrivens is 100% ready to assume the #1 role in Toronto. Or are you unable to grasp that despite the simplicity of the idea?

Maybe you should get out of your Mom's basement, join the real world, develop some logical reasoning skills, and try grabbing half a clue.
Hahaha, can you give me these other options that help make this club better?

Can you not grasp that everyone is available for the right price? Is that really so difficult for you to understand?
If you think this is true, then I really shouldn't be talking to you. Mike Smith, Carey Price, Pekka Rinne, Kipper etc. all could be had at a price maybe but the price would end up hurting us by how steep it would be. Again, trades are made to better your team lols.

And by you commenting this (original comment I responded to), "I think Burke might have something else in the works or already worked out." I took it as options outside the organization (trade/signings) and not inside like Reimer and Scrivvens (which I would be fine with). Personal attacks to finish off your comment too was great haha. I'll let you go on this since you are new to the site.

Eb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 12:51 PM
  #608
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
MacArthur + Gunnarsson.
Too much imo, Mac + Komi is more then enough.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:00 PM
  #609
Slapshot_11
Registered User
 
Slapshot_11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Too much imo, Mac + Komi is more then enough.
Not a chance Gillis trades a top goalie for a guy who has neg value and a average second liner

Gillis will keep him or trade him somewhere else if thats what Burke is offering and the leafs can miss the playoffs again

Slapshot_11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:01 PM
  #610
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
Well then keep him, that's we're offering.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:05 PM
  #611
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Well then keep him, that's we're offering.
That's what you are offering and want to see the Leafs offer.

Be prepared to see him go for more.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:11 PM
  #612
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
That's what you are offering and want to see the Leafs offer.

Be prepared to see him go for more.
No need to offer more as we don't have to trade for Lu and his contract. The same same goes for every other team out there.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:12 PM
  #613
Eb
TML
 
Eb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
No need to offer more as we don't have to trade for Lu and his contract. The same same goes for every other team out there.
Of course we don't need him but he would improve our team. Like what Burke said about Kessel... it's not everyday a superstar becomes available.

Eb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:16 PM
  #614
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Of course we don't need him but he would improve our team. Like what Burke said about Kessel... it's not everyday a superstar becomes available.
This is true but in this situation (Luongo wanting out, his contract/term, Schneider to be given the starting role, etc) GM's know they can get Luongo for pennies on the dollar. No one is in a bind here other then Vancouver.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:19 PM
  #615
Eb
TML
 
Eb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
This is true but in this situation (Luongo wanting out, his contract/term, Schneider to be given the starting role, etc) GM's know they can get Luongo for pennies on the dollar. No one is in a bind here other then Vancouver.
Similar situation with Kessel wanting out and look what Chiarelli got.

Gillis knows Burke really wants Luongo I believe. But yes, his contract and age decreases the return Van gets - no doubt.

Eb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:20 PM
  #616
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Similar situation with Kessel wanting out and look what Chiarelli got.

Gillis knows Burke really wants Luongo I believe. But yes, his contract and age decreases the return Van gets - no doubt.
Sort of but not really.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:23 PM
  #617
Eb
TML
 
Eb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
Sort of but not really.
Hence the word similar. I agree goalie is a completely different position in terms of acquiring a player compared to D or F.

Eb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:23 PM
  #618
joepeps
Registered User
 
joepeps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,805
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb View Post
Similar situation with Kessel wanting out and look what Chiarelli got.

Gillis knows Burke really wants Luongo I believe. But yes, his contract and age decreases the return Van gets - no doubt.
Kessel was a RFA with no massive contract

Robbie L not quite

joepeps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:25 PM
  #619
kthsn
Registered User
 
kthsn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,008
vCash: 500
I think the biggest difference between Luongo and Kessel is the contract.

On one hand Luongo is locked in for another 10 years (more than likely plays only 6) but the duration adds extra risk.

On the other hand because Luongo is locked into a contract he's legally obligated to play for Vancouver - something Kessel did not have to do with Boston.

I guess the other major difference is that Luongo is an established top 10 goaltender and Kessel at the time was just a promising young player.

kthsn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:27 PM
  #620
Eb
TML
 
Eb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepeps View Post
Kessel was a RFA with no massive contract

Robbie L not quite
Hence the reason why I mentioned his age and contract will decrease his return.

I was just making the parallelism to Burke saying that superstars don't become often too often (Kessel, Luo) and both players wanting out.

Eb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:28 PM
  #621
thebluemachine*
go ahead, do it
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,193
vCash: 500
And at the time of the Kessel trade he was 21 years old, Luongo is already 33 years old. That's a huge difference.

thebluemachine* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:33 PM
  #622
Eb
TML
 
Eb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebluemachine View Post
And at the time of the Kessel trade he was 21 years old, Luongo is already 33 years old. That's a huge difference.
Hence the reason why I mentioned his age and contract will decrease his return.

I was just making the parallelism to Burke saying that superstars don't become often too often (Kessel, Luo) and both players wanting out.

Eb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:53 PM
  #623
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eb View Post
I was just making the parallelism to Burke saying that superstars don't become often too often (Kessel, Luo) and both players wanting out.
If Luongo were truly a "superstar" the Canucks wouldn't even consider trading him.

The reason they are considering taking a mulligan on Luongo is the nagging issue that when he's really needed for Vancouver, in the games that matter the most, he hasn't played well. His playoff track record and the alarming frequency with which he seems to quit on his team when things don't go his way is a huge factor in why the Canucks are entertaining the notion of shipping him out.

However, that issue, and the length of his contract, will create a very soft market for him. Personally, I don't think there's a GM in the league stupid enough to take on Luongo at all and the Canucks will be stuck with him. I would say 90 percent of the trade offers proposed here (including the Leaf fan offers the Nucks fans are dismissing as being lowball) are way more then it would take. If the Canucks could move him and simply receive the cap space back and perhaps a conditional pick, I think Gillis would jump at the opportunity to ship him out and move forward with Corey Schenider and the financial flexibility.

I'm frankly quite surprised there are so many Leaf fans that would be for acquiring him. He might get you into the playoffs, but I'd be shocked if any team won a Stanley Cup with him and that, afterall, is supposed to be the point.

FerrisRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 01:54 PM
  #624
gabeliscious
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,215
vCash: 500
i think the chances of gillis getting "value" for luongo are getting less and less by the day as teams who could potentially need a goalie (ie: tampa) are sorting their goalie needs elsewhere.

there are very few teams who a) need a starting goalie b) can take on that contract. even though the cap hit is manageable people forget its still like a $60 million contract.

the best gillis can hope for at this point imo is to make a hockey trade where he can pieces that can help vancouver compete right away. its my impression that they lacked grit and secondary scoring last playoffs. i think based on that something like macarthur, armstrong, and a 2nd (2012) would be decent in the sense that both mac and armstrong can help, combined make only marginally more then luongo and are both on the last years of their deals.

i definitely would be hesitant to give up any sort of decent prospect like kadri, gardiner, ashton, colborne, damigo, etc, etc or young roster player like schenn or gunnarson. from a leafs standpoint mac can be replaced by kadri and armstrong by frattin and the leafs likely wouldnt skip a beat. if you take out gunnarson or schenn it would be a tougher piece to replace.

i know vancouver is on the flip side and thinks luongo is worth an arm and a leg but i think i would rather go with a reimer/scrivens tandem next season and get another bottom 5 pick then give up huge assets for luongo

gabeliscious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2012, 02:01 PM
  #625
Beleafer4
Registered User
 
Beleafer4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
If Luongo were truly a "superstar" the Canucks wouldn't even consider trading him.

The reason they are considering taking a mulligan on Luongo is the nagging issue that when he's really needed for Vancouver, in the games that matter the most, he hasn't played well. His playoff track record and the alarming frequency with which he seems to quit on his team when things don't go his way is a huge factor in why the Canucks are entertaining the notion of shipping him out.

However, that issue, and the length of his contract, will create a very soft market for him. Personally, I don't think there's a GM in the league stupid enough to take on Luongo at all and the Canucks will be stuck with him. I would say 90 percent of the trade offers proposed here (including the Leaf fan offers the Nucks fans are dismissing as being lowball) are way more then it would take. If the Canucks could move him and simply receive the cap space back and perhaps a conditional pick, I think Gillis would jump at the opportunity to ship him out and move forward with Corey Schenider and the financial flexibility.

I'm frankly quite surprised there are so many Leaf fans that would be for acquiring him. He might get you into the playoffs, but I'd be shocked if any team won a Stanley Cup with him and that, afterall, is supposed to be the point.
I think a .919 career save percentage makes him a star.

Beleafer4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.