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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part III)

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Old
08-18-2012, 12:37 PM
  #276
DyerMaker66
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Originally Posted by Mehar View Post
I have the exact 12 forwards but I substituted Sharp in favour of J. Staal, but I can live with either. Obviously things can change from now until the end of next year, but if Taylor Hall has a great year next year along with Skinner, I would seriously consider them to be the top 12 forwards. I have Skinner as my 13th forward based on his great play at this WHC. I also have Luongo ahead of Fleury this time in goal. Hopefully Mike Smith and Holtby have great years next year, so they can solidify their spot for Sochi, since I am not sold on Cam Ward as one of the three goalies.
Luongo isn't better than Cory Schneider, never mind being on Team Canada before Fleury, Ward, Holtby or Smith.


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08-18-2012, 01:15 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Luongo isn't better than Cory Schneider, never mind being on Team Canada before Fleury, Ward, Holtby or Smith.
What exactly has Cory Schneider done to be mentioned with Luongo? Luongo has had some bad games, but ultimately he's been a great goalie.

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08-18-2012, 01:42 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by therealdeal View Post
What exactly has Cory Schneider done to be mentioned with Luongo? Luongo has had some bad games, but ultimately he's been a great goalie.
Umm start and not have his team looking to trade his crappy contract? Luongo hasn't been great in any way, shape, or form.

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08-18-2012, 06:10 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Umm start and not have his team looking to trade his crappy contract? Luongo hasn't been great in any way, shape, or form.
I would like to see you explain why Smith, Holtby, and Fleury are better suited for the job...

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08-18-2012, 09:17 PM
  #280
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My picks:
Nash-Crosby-Eberle
Stamkos-Toews-Giroux
E Staal-J Staal-Perry
M Richards-Tavares-Iginla
Bergeron

Letang-Weber
Staal-Doughty
Keith-Seabrook
Pietrangelo

Price
Fleury
Luongo

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08-19-2012, 12:32 AM
  #281
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All right so I made this analysis. This is an attempt to ice the best two-way team possible. The players listed are the best Canadian two-way forwards available, based on last season's play.

The first number is the difference in the player's +/- per 60 minutes of ice time when he's On the ice and the team's +/- per 60 minutes of ice time when he's Off the ice. The higher the number, the more a player helps his team out at both ends of the ice. I guess you could say a player is hurt in this stat by playing on a good team (other lines are good), because +/- is high when he's Off the ice. But, Crosby and the Bruins players are still high on the list, therefore I conclude it's not that big of a deal. Minimum for the list = 0.50

The 2nd number is Relative Corsi (+/- for shots/blocked shots/missed shots). Relative means it's adjusted relative to teammates (if all players on a team have high Corsi, their Rel Corsi will be lowered). Good indication of two-way. At any rate, any team made up of these players will badly outshoot their opponents; which is a good thing. Minimum for the list = 5.0

Crosby = 3.03/17.3
Whitney = 1.68/12.7
Purcell = 1.48/8.3
Bergeron = 1.41/18.5
Stamkos = 1.32/7.6
Benn = 1.24/10.7
Seguin = 1.18/18.4
Marchand = 1.12/17.4
Heatley = 1.10/9.5
Eberle = 1.10/5.7
Hartnell = 1.02/9.6
Sharp = 0.98/15.0
Thornton = 0.82/14.9
Kane = 0.80/8.7
Toews = 0.71/14.6
Tavares = 0.69/10.6
Spezza = 0.68/6.0
Nugent-Hopkins = 0.65/5.6
Marleau = 0.54/8.1
O'Reilly = 0.50/12.4

Now, not all players play against top competition (top lines), notably Purcell, Stamkos, Kane, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle and Tavares. Therefore, their numbers might be slightly inflated because of easy competition.

Notable exclusions: Claude Giroux (his +/- was way worse than Hartnell for some reason), Eric Staal, Jordan Staal, Rick Nash, Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaf, Martin St. Louis and Jarome Iginla.

Notable inclusion: Dany ****ing Heatley. He was +2 on a -49 team. Props.

If I were to make a Team Canada right now on small ice in order to dominate offensively and defensively, it would be:

Stamkos - Crosby - Purcell
Whitney - Thornton - Eberle
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Hartnell - Benn - Sharp
Heatley


If were to make it on big ice in 2 years, it would be:

Stamkos - Crosby - Purcell
Tavares - Nugent-Hopkins - Eberle
Kane - Toews - Benn
Marchand - Bergeron - Seguin
Sharp


Now before people jump down my throat for not including the likes of Giroux, consider this. (Hartnell and Giroux mostly played on the same line right?)

Hartnell
Rel Corsi = 9.6
+/- On the ice = +1.04; +/- Off the ice = +0.02; Difference = +1.02

Giroux
Rel Corsi = 6.9
+/- On the ice = +0.53; +/- Off the ice = +0.27; Difference = +0.26

Apparently Hartnell is a much better two-way player. In reality, I think Giroux was just more inconsistent with his defensive effort, which is something to consider when picking the team.


I'll do the defense next.

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08-19-2012, 11:06 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Umm start and not have his team looking to trade his crappy contract? Luongo hasn't been great in any way, shape, or form.
Schnieder has never once been a starter in his career, Luongo has been his whole career, and Canada doesn't have to worry about staying under the cap, so a contract doesn't really matter.

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08-19-2012, 11:14 AM
  #283
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I must say, Schneider has become quite the darling here on HFboards.

It's been quite something to watch materialize over the past year, especially since as has been mentioned by the realdeal here the guy hasn't even yet been as much as a starter in the league yet.

Guys like Luongo and Smith get no respect yet a guy with such a scant resume as a starter is treated like the second coming.

Odd.

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08-19-2012, 11:24 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by espo View Post
I must say, Schneider has become quite the darling here on HFboards.

It's been quite something to watch materialize over the past year, especially since as has been mentioned by the realdeal here the guy hasn't even yet been as much as a starter in the league yet.

Guys like Luongo and Smith get no respect yet a guy with such a scant resume as a starter is treated like the second coming.

Odd.
Not to mention he's American, so it's a moot point when it comes to team Canada.

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08-19-2012, 11:30 AM
  #285
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Yeah, bringing Schneider into a conversation on the validity of Luongo being one of the goalie options for Team canada is kind of pointless being as the guy isn't even Canadian.

And what's more..................................hasn't even proved himself as a season long every day starter in the league yet.

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08-19-2012, 01:49 PM
  #286
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For defense

Hamonic = 1.34/1.2
Subban = 1.09/6.3
Hamhuis = 1.06/7.3
Weber = 0.85/11.2
Garrison = 0.82/10.8
Seabrook = 0.67/1.7
White = 0.64/5.7
Doughty = 0.57/1.5 (playoffs) and 0.88/5.5 (2009-10)
Burns = 0.56/8.0
Campbell = 0.22/9.9

Letang = 1.78/6.4 (low QoC)
Keith = 0.16/-3.2
Pietrangelo = -0.20/7.8
Green = 0.62/6.3 (very low QoC)


So I would pick Subban, Weber, Hamonic, Doughty, Letang, Garrison and Hamhuis.

Hamhuis - Weber
Letang - Doughty
Garrison - Subban
Hamonic

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08-19-2012, 06:44 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Ben Dover View Post
I would like to see you explain why Smith, Holtby, and Fleury are better suited for the job...
Because Luongo's sucked for years while playing behind one of the best teams in the west. Because Bobby Lou's team wins in spite of him, not because of him. Because Smith, Holtby, and Fleury aren't being shopped (with the only taker being the friggin' Buds) because their back-up is out-playing them.

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08-19-2012, 07:02 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by therealdeal View Post
Schnieder has never once been a starter in his career, Luongo has been his whole career, and Canada doesn't have to worry about staying under the cap, so a contract doesn't really matter.
Roberto Luongo: Doesn't play in the most important games of the season; still considered the starter.

So Bobby Lou's team isn't trying to trade him (with few takers) because they believe that Schnieder gives them a better chance to win (and hence, is the starter)?

If he doesn't deserve to start in a 30 team league (which he doesn't) what in the world makes you believe that he should start(or even take part) in a tournament featuring the Big Six?

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08-19-2012, 07:51 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Roberto Luongo: Doesn't play in the most important games of the season; still considered the starter.

So Bobby Lou's team isn't trying to trade him (with few takers) because they believe that Schnieder gives them a better chance to win (and hence, is the starter)?

If he doesn't deserve to start in a 30 team league (which he doesn't) what in the world makes you believe that he should start(or even take part) in a tournament featuring the Big Six?


Luongo has gone from a starter to a non-starter on every team in the league? Two losses against the Stanley Cup champions and its alll over for him! I guess Rinne and Smith are no longer starters in the league, I wonder who Phoenix and Nashville are gonna get to fill in for them, clearly they're no longer starters!


Last edited by therealdeal: 08-19-2012 at 08:01 PM.
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Old
08-19-2012, 09:16 PM
  #290
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Luongo has gone from a starter to a non-starter on every team in the league? Two losses against the Stanley Cup champions and its alll over for him! I guess Rinne and Smith are no longer starters in the league, I wonder who Phoenix and Nashville are gonna get to fill in for them, clearly they're no longer starters!
Pekka Rinne and Mike Smith both started for their teams in the last 2 (and most important) games of their season, so I have idea wtf you're going on about.

It was over for him before that, you're just having trouble realizing that he's not the starter for that team. Team's don't often attempt to trade their "starting" goaltenders if they don't think they have an adequate replacement for him, they also don't sit them for the two most important games of the season if they have faith in him.

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08-19-2012, 09:27 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by espo View Post
Yeah, bringing Schneider into a conversation on the validity of Luongo being one of the goalie options for Team canada is kind of pointless being as the guy isn't even Canadian.

And what's more..................................hasn't even proved himself as a season long every day starter in the league yet.
The point: Luongo is not better than Schneider; Schneider is not better than Smith, Holtby, or Fleury, therefore Luongo does not make Team Canada before any of them. I didn't really think I had to explain that if A, B, and C are greater than D, and D is greater than E, then A,B, and C are greater than E.

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08-19-2012, 10:26 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
The point: Luongo is not better than Schneider; Schneider is not better than Smith, Holtby, or Fleury, therefore Luongo does not make Team Canada before any of them. I didn't really think I had to explain that if A, B, and C are greater than D, and D is greater than E, then A,B, and C are greater than E.
What do you think of Fleurys playoff performance this year?

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08-19-2012, 10:52 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
For defense

Hamonic = 1.34/1.2
Subban = 1.09/6.3
Hamhuis = 1.06/7.3
Weber = 0.85/11.2
Garrison = 0.82/10.8
Seabrook = 0.67/1.7
White = 0.64/5.7
Doughty = 0.57/1.5 (playoffs) and 0.88/5.5 (2009-10)
Burns = 0.56/8.0
Campbell = 0.22/9.9

Letang = 1.78/6.4 (low QoC)
Keith = 0.16/-3.2
Pietrangelo = -0.20/7.8
Green = 0.62/6.3 (very low QoC)


So I would pick Subban, Weber, Hamonic, Doughty, Letang, Garrison and Hamhuis.

Hamhuis - Weber
Letang - Doughty
Garrison - Subban
Hamonic
I thought your forward post was whacky enough but after seeing this I can't help but wonder if you're serious or just misplaced your marbles.

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08-19-2012, 11:04 PM
  #294
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What do you think of Fleurys playoff performance this year?
I think he played like Bobby Lou, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in bouncing back this year.

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08-19-2012, 11:59 PM
  #295
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I think he played like Bobby Lou, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in bouncing back this year.
Thats funny. Looks like we have a young Adam Sandler over here.

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08-20-2012, 12:34 AM
  #296
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You'll have to continue to explain it to me some more then because I don't see how you can say schneider is for a fact better then luongo when luongo is a numerous time all star and schneider hasn't even been a starter in the league over a whole season yet.

How can you be so sure of this?..............schneiders sample size as a bona fide nhl goaltender is so small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
The point: Luongo is not better than Schneider; Schneider is not better than Smith, Holtby, or Fleury, therefore Luongo does not make Team Canada before any of them. I didn't really think I had to explain that if A, B, and C are greater than D, and D is greater than E, then A,B, and C are greater than E.

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08-20-2012, 01:02 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Roberto Luongo: Doesn't play in the most important games of the season; still considered the starter.

So Bobby Lou's team isn't trying to trade him (with few takers) because they believe that Schnieder gives them a better chance to win (and hence, is the starter)?

If he doesn't deserve to start in a 30 team league (which he doesn't) what in the world makes you believe that he should start(or even take part) in a tournament featuring the Big Six?
You really think he doesn't deserve to be a starter on any other team? You're logic makes no sense at all.

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08-20-2012, 11:02 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
I thought your forward post was whacky enough but after seeing this I can't help but wonder if you're serious or just misplaced your marbles.
My thoughts exactly

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08-20-2012, 02:30 PM
  #299
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My thoughts exactly
No, no - Purcell over Giroux and Marchand over Richards up front makes a lot of sense, as does Garrison over Pietrangelo and Hamonic over Keith (not to mention the questionable selections of Subban and Hamhuis)

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08-20-2012, 02:56 PM
  #300
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No, no - Purcell over Giroux and Marchand over Richards up front makes a lot of sense, as does Garrison over Pietrangelo and Hamonic over Keith (not to mention the questionable selections of Subban and Hamhuis)
Kind of off topic, but if there's a lockout there should be a 7 game series with the Americans, a pre-olympic tune up. Never mind this nonsense of an exhibition series with KHL teams. I find that idea completely not interesting.

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