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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part III)

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08-25-2012, 11:42 PM
  #326
DyerMaker66
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Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
Wait what? Did you even watch the Canucks/Kings opener? You know, when Vancouver's lack of discipline gave the Kings PP after PP, and if it wasn't for some fine Luongo saves the Canucks wouldn't even have had a chance?

Hockey Canada is loyal to veterans - Luongo will be on Team Canada 2014 barring a major drop in his play, and Price and Ward will be the other 2 goalies. The goalie who's the hottest going in to the Olympics will start.
Did you even watch Luongo play last year? He's the only thing keeping (that kept) them from a cup.

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08-26-2012, 12:12 AM
  #327
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I'm a Hawks fan - and can't believe I continually stand up for Luongo

Luongo's really not that bad. I'd trust him before I'd trust Fleury. I actually think that left to his own devices Luongo's fine - where he fails hardcore is when he has chaos @ D in front of him. If we can get together D that is skilled and consistent then Luongo would be fine...but, god willing, this won't be an issue b/c Luongo won't be our #1 goalie.

re: defense - ppl need to stop penciling in Keith. He isn't even playing like the #1 D on the Hawks at this point - I'd put Seabrook on the team before Keith.

Sorry for beating a dead horse - but our goal situation is tragic - at this point the general sense is Price needs to be ready to go - which actually underscores our goalie weakness.

If the Olympic team was named tomorrow - I'd go with Price, Luongo, Fleury.

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08-26-2012, 12:15 AM
  #328
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No disrespect, but you are overrating Ward by saying this statement. When it mattered the most against Slovakia in this year's WHC back in May, Ward let in goals he should have kept out of the net. Throughout the tournament he was shaky at times, and did not look elite as you put it. I have no confidence in Ward for Sochi 2014. Hopefully Mike Smith and Holtby have great years next year to give me some confidence in Canada's goaltending. Hopefully a change of scenery for Luongo will revitalize him as well. There is a lot of "hopefully" in my words, since goaltending will be the weak link of this team. Luongo was shaky back in 2010, but did enough for Canada to win gold, including an unbelievable stop on Demitra (R.I.P.) against Slovakia in the Semi-finals. Thankfully Crosby scored in Overtime. If not, the game would have gone to a shootout, and I liked Team USA's chances more with Ryan Miller in goal opposed to Luongo to win that game.
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Ward's Conn Smythe was 6 years ago (it will be 8 when Sochi rolls around) and since then he's done nothing to establish himself as an elite goalie in the NHL, so the Cup and Conn Smythe are old news. IMO his CS was pretty weak anyway, and I'd put both Staal and Brind'Amour ahead of him in terms of their performance that playoff. To turn your argument around, Fleury should be on the team because he won a (more recent) Cup and was excellent in that playoff run as well.
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I disagree about Ward, honestly, the guy won a Stanley Cup, but so did Niemi, and I wouldn't call Niemi a great goalie. Not to mention Ward's cup was a long time ago, he hasn't been very good in a long while.
It's not the Cup or Conn Smythe making me pick Ward. It's his current level of play - Cam Ward has really stepped it up in the last 2 seasons ... quietly playing well behind a bad defence in Carolina. He hasn't been elite, but he definitely isn't an average goalie like Niemi.

One game in this year's WC is making you doubt Ward? Remember, the only active Canadian goalies who have won a World Championship are ... Roberto Luongo and Cam Ward.

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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Did you even watch Luongo play last year? He's the only thing keeping (that kept) them from a cup.
Really don't want to beat a dead horse any more. Luongo's stinkers didn't cost Vancouver a Cup - horrible special teams and the offence drying up did. Even if Luongo had played like an elite goalie, the Bruins would still have won - they just wouldn't have posted blowout scores. If anything, Luongo was a major reason we were even in position to win the Cup in the first place.

Oh, and if one bad playoff series disqualifies you from Olympic competition, then Ward and Fleury are out too.


Last edited by Hammer Time: 08-26-2012 at 12:30 AM.
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Old
08-26-2012, 12:41 AM
  #329
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Oh, and if one bad playoff series disqualifies you from Olympic competition, then Ward and Fleury are out too.
No kidding. If you look at the players most likely to make the team the vast majority of them got booted out of the playoffs after the first round or failed to make the playoffs altogether.

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08-26-2012, 04:40 AM
  #330
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anyone know why Price wasn't at the WC this year?

I agree Montreal doesn't look like a playoff team - it looks more like a draft lottery team, actually...and people are right that Price better be at the WCs next year if Montreal isn't in post-season.

It's important we win in Sochi. Winning in front of a Russian audience would be very satisfying.
Absolutely. But this time being a Home Olympics they are taking it a whole lot more serious, as is to be expected. The Russians just finished their first pre-olympic camp in Switzerland (none of the main players from the NHL) just some of the younger reserve players who may be there, Kuznetsov for example. All their future Olympic preparations will be in Switzerland unlike last time in the summer of 2009 they held a "skate" gathering in Moscow that was more like a gong show than anything else with 7 thousand people in the stands and the players performing tricks for the audience like bears at the circus. Didn't turn out so well. So, new coach, new attitude, a whole new way of doing things....I still don't think they are all that great of a team, but they are more than capable of winning a 1 game knock out. Geez man, would I love to get them in a best of 7 series.

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08-26-2012, 10:17 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
It's not the Cup or Conn Smythe making me pick Ward. It's his current level of play - Cam Ward has really stepped it up in the last 2 seasons ... quietly playing well behind a bad defence in Carolina. He hasn't been elite, but he definitely isn't an average goalie like Niemi.

One game in this year's WC is making you doubt Ward? Remember, the only active Canadian goalies who have won a World Championship are ... Roberto Luongo and Cam Ward.



Really don't want to beat a dead horse any more. Luongo's stinkers didn't cost Vancouver a Cup - horrible special teams and the offence drying up did. Even if Luongo had played like an elite goalie, the Bruins would still have won - they just wouldn't have posted blowout scores. If anything, Luongo was a major reason we were even in position to win the Cup in the first place.

Oh, and if one bad playoff series disqualifies you from Olympic competition, then Ward and Fleury are out too.
Except Luongo's been terrible for the last three years.

No, he's the only thing that kept them from winning it: When the chips were down and he needed to make a save, he couldn't. The dude didn't even play every game in the SCF because of how bad he was, and yet he played "like an elite goaltender"? Give me a break.


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08-28-2012, 06:10 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Except Luongo's been terrible for the last three years.

No, he's the only thing that kept them from winning it: When the chips were down and he needed to make a save, he couldn't. The dude didn't even play every game in the SCF because of how bad he was, and yet he played "like an elite goaltender"? Give me a break.
Ryan Miller was lights out in 2010. Vezina winning season.
Excellent for the US in the tournament.

Crosby's OT winner was WEAK.
Terrible, terrible goalie.

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08-28-2012, 10:00 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
It's not the Cup or Conn Smythe making me pick Ward. It's his current level of play - Cam Ward has really stepped it up in the last 2 seasons ... quietly playing well behind a bad defence in Carolina. He hasn't been elite, but he definitely isn't an average goalie like Niemi.

One game in this year's WC is making you doubt Ward? Remember, the only active Canadian goalies who have won a World Championship are ... Roberto Luongo and Cam Ward.



Really don't want to beat a dead horse any more. Luongo's stinkers didn't cost Vancouver a Cup - horrible special teams and the offence drying up did. Even if Luongo had played like an elite goalie, the Bruins would still have won - they just wouldn't have posted blowout scores. If anything, Luongo was a major reason we were even in position to win the Cup in the first place.

Oh, and if one bad playoff series disqualifies you from Olympic competition, then Ward and Fleury are out too.
Really don't want to beat a dead horse any more but Luongo's been crap for the last three years.

No; if you'd had a competant goalie, you would've been the Cup champions. Again, the guy just can't make a save, especially when the pressure is on.

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09-01-2012, 10:21 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by hockeywoot View Post
Ryan Miller was lights out in 2010. Vezina winning season.
Excellent for the US in the tournament.

Crosby's OT winner was WEAK.
Terrible, terrible goalie.
Yeah: You totally could've stopped it if you were in net, brah!

Stop comparing a goalie who doesn't even start for his team, to one of the best goalies in the world.

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09-01-2012, 10:47 AM
  #335
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All of Canada held their breath when any team crossed the blue line because Luongo was horrible and can't hold onto the puck. Canada won in spite of one of the weaker goalies in Olympics.

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09-01-2012, 12:05 PM
  #336
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Luongo hate here is amazing.

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09-01-2012, 02:01 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Luongo hate here is amazing.
"When that Luongo boy showed up it took years off my life."

Most people thought Marge's father said that about Homer Simpson. Truth is, Marge's dad is Canadian and he was talking about the 2010 Olympics.


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09-01-2012, 02:05 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Luongo hate here is amazing.
I am still amazed that he stopped the Joe Pavelski knuckler one minute before Crosby scored the winner in OT. It was the ONLY (semi) tough shot he faced in the OT and… he struggled with it! Based on his past, I am shocked (and eternally grateful) it did not go in.

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09-01-2012, 06:24 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
I am still amazed that he stopped the Joe Pavelski knuckler one minute before Crosby scored the winner in OT. It was the ONLY (semi) tough shot he faced in the OT and… he struggled with it! Based on his past, I am shocked (and eternally grateful) it did not go in.
Actually that was so true about the Pavelski shot, since I held my breath for a couple of seconds. I am glad Crosby scored in OT, because otherwise Canada would have lost in the shootout and would have to settle for the Silver Medal. Hopefully Luongo can bounce back and have a real solid year in a different market. If not, that leaves guys like Holtby and Mike Smith in the mix, but they have no real track record besides last season. Man I wish we could have a guy like Quick back there. Maybe someone can offer him a Canadian Passport before Sochi (LOL).


Last edited by Mehar: 09-01-2012 at 09:31 PM.
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Old
09-01-2012, 10:10 PM
  #340
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Actually that was so true about the Pavelski shot, since I held my breath for a couple of seconds.).
Aye Mehar,

The fact that it still stands out in your mind, after 2 years, shows the insecurity Canada felt EVERY time Luongo faced a shot - no matter how weak.

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Maybe someone can offer him a Canadian Passport before Sochi (LOL).
If only it was that easy.

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09-03-2012, 12:48 AM
  #341
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Yeah: You totally could've stopped it if you were in net, brah!

Stop comparing a goalie who doesn't even start for his team, to one of the best goalies in the world.
Ryan Miller? Really? One of the best goalies in the world?
Probably top-10.

That year he was the best goalie in the world.
A statistical anomaly.
He's comparable to Luongo actually.

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09-05-2012, 11:07 AM
  #342
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Ryan Miller? Really? One of the best goalies in the world?
Probably top-10.

That year he was the best goalie in the world.
A statistical anomaly.
He's comparable to Luongo actually.
By your reasoning, he's not at all like Luongo: Luongo's not a top 30 goaltender,
never mind being a top 10 goalie.

Being in the top 10 in the world means he's not one of the best goalies in the world? Really?

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09-07-2012, 09:24 PM
  #343
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09-09-2012, 12:10 PM
  #344
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We need to give it a whole year to see just who should be on this team.

I really worry about the U.S and Sweden, to me, they have the best mix of players to take us down.Russia, aside from a couple of top end talents doesn't worry me so much.I find from top to bottom when you handle guys like Malkin and Ovechkin/Kovalchuk they really aren't that talented and are quite beatable .

If you look at Swedens and the US defense and two way players you can see how much better a job they are doing at developing players that play straight in your face down home Hockey.

I am not saying teams like Russia should be disregarded, it's just that we will be facing higher quality competition then them and we should keep that in mind.

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09-10-2012, 05:21 AM
  #345
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We need to give it a whole year to see just who should be on this team.

I really worry about the U.S and Sweden, to me, they have the best mix of players to take us down.Russia, aside from a couple of top end talents doesn't worry me so much.I find from top to bottom when you handle guys like Malkin and Ovechkin/Kovalchuk they really aren't that talented and are quite beatable .

If you look at Swedens and the US defense and two way players you can see how much better a job they are doing at developing players that play straight in your face down home Hockey.

I am not saying teams like Russia should be disregarded, it's just that we will be facing higher quality competition then them and we should keep that in mind.
Not much to disagree with there. Can't wait til the pressure cooker gets turned up on this thing.

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09-10-2012, 09:07 AM
  #346
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Usually we have the most pressure on us but for once this time i'm not so sure, Russia has a lot to make up for considering it's at home and right on the heels of that last disaster in Vancouver.

They will get every break possible needed to win being the home team like all home teams do but that doesn't assure victory at all.

Can they handle that albatross hanging round their neck? It's put up or shut up time. Anything less then gold for them is a massive failure.

Silver just won't cut it.

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09-10-2012, 09:56 AM
  #347
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Usually we have the most pressure on us but for once this time i'm not so sure, Russia has a lot to make up for considering it's at home and right on the heels of that last disaster in Vancouver.

They will get every break possible needed to win being the home team like all home teams do but that doesn't assure victory at all.

Can they handle that albatross hanging round their neck? It's put up or shut up time. Anything less then gold for them is a massive failure.

Silver just won't cut it.
I hear ya on that. This is the first Olympics since the pros got involved where I feel absolutely no angst. My expectation is to play in the gold medal game... which is always my expectation and from there we'll win our fair share of tournaments..with the team Canada can put together that should be our expectation always..but if we come up a little short in Sochi, I'll finish off my beer and then get on with life...no big deal.

It's gold or bust for the Russians in Sochi...I think the odds are stacked against them big time, and other than home ice advantage, I'm not sure they have any other.

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09-10-2012, 02:36 PM
  #348
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I hear ya on that. This is the first Olympics since the pros got involved where I feel absolutely no angst. My expectation is to play in the gold medal game... which is always my expectation and from there we'll win our fair share of tournaments..with the team Canada can put together that should be our expectation always..but if we come up a little short in Sochi, I'll finish off my beer and then get on with life...no big deal.

It's gold or bust for the Russians in Sochi...I think the odds are stacked against them big time, and other than home ice advantage, I'm not sure they have any other.
I think Canada got lucky to be in the easiest pool thanks to Getzlaf's penalty that resulted in the loss in this year's WHC. I think Canada will be there in the end, but people should not count out the Russians. Playing at home in the big ice will bring the best out of them and their team is loaded up front. Just like Canada is shaky at goal, I think goaltending is also their biggest question mark. To me it is a 4 team race for the Gold- Canada, Russia, Sweden, USA. I think Canada will be there in the end in the Gold Medal Game. Hopefully their goaltending can do enough for them to win Gold.

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09-10-2012, 03:30 PM
  #349
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I think Canada got lucky to be in the easiest pool thanks to Getzlaf's penalty that resulted in the loss in this year's WHC. I think Canada will be there in the end, but people should not count out the Russians. Playing at home in the big ice will bring the best out of them and their team is loaded up front. Just like Canada is shaky at goal, I think goaltending is also their biggest question mark. To me it is a 4 team race for the Gold- Canada, Russia, Sweden, USA. I think Canada will be there in the end in the Gold Medal Game. Hopefully their goaltending can do enough for them to win Gold.
That's fair and likely accurate but often, being in the weakest pool, comes back to haunt a team. They need to be challenged. They need adversity to gel and grow as a team.

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09-10-2012, 03:46 PM
  #350
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