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Old
06-06-2012, 04:42 PM
  #101
Oilfan2
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
29th vs 30th. All of those improvements in those stats equated to exactly 1 spot in the standings. 12 points is sort of worthless when you go from by far the worst team in the league to just 2nd worst.
Did you think going from last place a couple of years in a row to near a playoff spot was going to be a walk in the park? That just drafting a few rookies was going to carry us to the top? You mean you didn't see ANY improvement of the Oilers play last year from the previous? If that's the case, I'd have to question your ability to recognize improvements in players/temas/systems.

As Joe pointed out, there were definate improvements in just about every area of importance. I'm not a fan of this management but let's not negate difficult improvements and how about give credit where it's due? If we step backwards this year, fine...it was an aberation. I'm willing to think it will be continous improvement..

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06-06-2012, 04:50 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
I don't want Tambellini to get a single ounce of credit when and if (big if) this team ever turns a corner.
He would get all the credit. Why wouldn't he?

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06-06-2012, 04:55 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by oilfan22 View Post
Did you think going from last place a couple of years in a row to near a playoff spot was going to be a walk in the park? That just drafting a few rookies was going to carry us to the top? You mean you didn't see ANY improvement of the Oilers play last year from the previous? If that's the case, I'd have to question your ability to recognize improvements in players/temas/systems.

As Joe pointed out, there were definate improvements in just about every area of importance. I'm not a fan of this management but let's not negate difficult improvements and how about give credit where it's due? If we step backwards this year, fine...it was an aberation. I'm willing to think it will be continous improvement..
No credit is due a team that finished 29th after finishing 30th in back to back years. It takes a special type of incompetence to be this bad 3 years running. Yes, the Oilers were a better team last year. They went from without doubt the biggest joke in the league to a team that was just awful.

I never expected the Oilers to make the playoffs this past season, or even honestly contend for the playoffs. But to get out of the bottom 5? Maybe even approach bottom 10? Absolutely. That didn't happen. That in my eyes is a failure. No other way to cut it.

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06-06-2012, 04:59 PM
  #104
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Lowe pulls string number 1 and gets his puppet to sign...LOL

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06-06-2012, 05:00 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
No credit is due a team that finished 29th after finishing 30th in back to back years. It takes a special type of incompetence to be this bad 3 years running. Yes, the Oilers were a better team last year. They went from without doubt the biggest joke in the league to a team that was just awful.

I never expected the Oilers to make the playoffs this past season, or even honestly contend for the playoffs. But to get out of the bottom 5? Maybe even approach bottom 10? Absolutely. That didn't happen. That in my eyes is a failure. No other way to cut it.
So the difference between success and failure for you was 6 measly points?

Again seems very minor and the result ends up being better for us.

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06-06-2012, 05:06 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
No credit is due a team that finished 29th after finishing 30th in back to back years. It takes a special type of incompetence to be this bad 3 years running. Yes, the Oilers were a better team last year. They went from without doubt the biggest joke in the league to a team that was just awful.

I never expected the Oilers to make the playoffs this past season, or even honestly contend for the playoffs. But to get out of the bottom 5? Maybe even approach bottom 10? Absolutely. That didn't happen. That in my eyes is a failure. No other way to cut it.
So, if that same team - or a reasonable facsimile of it - goes from 29th and into the playoffs, is credit due then? Or do they need to win the Cup?

These bottom-dwelling years have been somewhat essential in acquiring Hall, RNH, Nail*, Musil, Klefbom, Paajarvi, etc. So, if those players turn this team around and lead the Oilers to the playoffs and an eventual Cup win, will credit be bestowed then? Don't bother answering. I think I know the reply.

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06-06-2012, 05:07 PM
  #107
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Out of curiosity.

What did any of you want Tambo to do?

Did you want him to go all Brian Burke on us, and trade Taylor Hall for Phil Kessel? Would you prefer he signed Jay Bouwmeester to a long overpaid contract?

I understand he didn't do anything, but did any of you actually WANT him to do something??


I really don't get the full-blown Tambo hate.

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06-06-2012, 05:11 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
No credit is due a team that finished 29th after finishing 30th in back to back years. It takes a special type of incompetence to be this bad 3 years running. Yes, the Oilers were a better team last year. They went from without doubt the biggest joke in the league to a team that was just awful.

I never expected the Oilers to make the playoffs this past season, or even honestly contend for the playoffs. But to get out of the bottom 5? Maybe even approach bottom 10? Absolutely. That didn't happen. That in my eyes is a failure. No other way to cut it.
Without another lottery pick, we are doomed to be in Atlanta Thrashers mode of annual ineptitude. Sorry, but we needed another lottery pick if we ever hope to one day contend.

You can feel free to disagree with me, but I think we're in better shape with 3x 1st Overall picks, than the Islanders with their 1, and the Avalanche with their 2x 2nd overalls.

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06-06-2012, 05:11 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Out of curiosity.

What did any of you want Tambo to do?

Did you want him to go all Brian Burke on us, and trade Taylor Hall for Phil Kessel? Would you prefer he signed Jay Bouwmeester to a long overpaid contract?

I understand he didn't do anything, but did any of you actually WANT him to do something??


I really don't get the full-blown Tambo hate.
His trades and free agent acquisitions have been average at best. Not confident he is the guy that can fill in the gaps to move this team forward.

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Old
06-06-2012, 05:14 PM
  #110
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The whole point of the last three years was to get the best players possible from the draft, management came right out and said it, they got the number one pick each of the last three, if your objective is to get the highest picks you can does that not qualify as a roaring success?

Or would your prefer to finish 9th place in the west each time and draft 13-14th?

We can't seem to sign high quality free agents and you can't trade **** for stars how the **** else were they supposed to go about this rebuild otherwise?

Pray that you are going to get an Eberle quality player out of the draft every year?

Hope that other GM's are just back from their lobotomy surgeries?

Use mind control implants on high quality free agents to make them sign with our team?

Chewing off your own arm to save your life is going to hurt more than rolling over and dying.

Has the last few years been hard to take listening to fans of other teams call us names and run down the city the team and all the other assorted BS that came along with it (especially the losing) been ugly?

Absolutely.

Suck it up, here's a straw.

Lots of respected hockey people think this team is going to be a force to contend with, its just going to take time.

This isn't the Cogliano Brule Nilsson Schremp PoS show anymore.

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06-06-2012, 05:19 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
His trades and free agent acquisitions have been average at best. Not confident he is the guy that can fill in the gaps to move this team forward.
Are you talking about a Steve Tambellini problem? Or are you talking about 'Edmonton is a bad UFA destination' problem?

Like he fumbled the MPS callup situation, and possibly the handling of Souray, but I don't know if I could fault him for the rest of the fiasco.


I sure as hell am glad he didn't go Brian Burke on this team, and traded Hall for Kessel, Hopkins for Pfaneuf, and traded a prospect starting goalie for a has-been/never was. It seems like some of you guys would have preferred that.

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06-06-2012, 05:21 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by nafrelio View Post
We all will reap the rewards of these planned years of dismal failure. Stop complaining. Tambo hasn't really had a chance to show his worth as the timing hasn't been right to pull major deals. People on here are so anti-management despite the clear vision of tanking they won't even be able to concede any future positives to Tambo.
Exactly. As soon as this team starts performing (this season or next) suddenly everyone will be on board, saying they were behind management the whole way, and that, yes, it was tough, but we stuck it through, and good on Tambo for staying the course, and I defended him the whole way, and the master plan prevailed etc.

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06-06-2012, 05:21 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
And he has also made appropriate trades and signings to allow DD, Hall, Ebs, Petry, and RNH develop properly.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Dubnyk/Eberle/Petry drafted before Tambellini? His success rate in drafting seems to be quite low outside the consensus no1s that any GM would make. Paajarvi ahead of Kulikov/Rundblad for example and a lack of contribution so far outside of the 1st round since 2009 (I guess you can include Lander but not a huge contribution there). Obviously the jury's still out and you gotta give time for those prospects to develop but if you're a rebuilding team with good draft positions then you expect more at least a couple contributions outside of the first overall picks from the 10/11 drafts and the highest 09 pick.

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06-06-2012, 05:23 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Dubnyk/Eberle/Petry drafted before Tambellini? His success rate in drafting seems to be quite low outside the consensus no1s that any GM would make. Paajarvi ahead of Kulikov/Rundblad for example and a lack of contribution so far outside of the 1st round since 2009 (I guess you can include Lander but not a huge contribution there). Obviously the jury's still out and you gotta give time for those prospects to develop but if you're a rebuilding team with good draft positions then you expect more at least a couple contributions outside of the first overall picks from the 10/11 drafts and the highest 09 pick.
One of the top AHL teams, and HF considers us to be one of the deepest prospect pools in the league. He's not doing too bad in that department.

And BTW what you're describing are Stu/Nelson Problems if you think Scouting and Development are our weakpoints.

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06-06-2012, 05:25 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
No credit is due a team that finished 29th after finishing 30th in back to back years. It takes a special type of incompetence to be this bad 3 years running. Yes, the Oilers were a better team last year. They went from without doubt the biggest joke in the league to a team that was just awful.

I never expected the Oilers to make the playoffs this past season, or even honestly contend for the playoffs. But to get out of the bottom 5? Maybe even approach bottom 10? Absolutely. That didn't happen. That in my eyes is a failure. No other way to cut it.
Except the "success" of the last couple years from my perspective isn't judged by our place in the standings, but by how our kids develop. They have developed well.

I'm not sure why you would trade finishing higher in the standings (yet out of the playoffs) at the expense of our young player development.

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06-06-2012, 05:25 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Dubnyk/Eberle/Petry drafted before Tambellini? His success rate in drafting seems to be quite low outside the consensus no1s that any GM would make. Paajarvi ahead of Kulikov/Rundblad for example and a lack of contribution so far outside of the 1st round since 2009 (I guess you can include Lander but not a huge contribution there). Obviously the jury's still out and you gotta give time for those prospects to develop but if you're a rebuilding team with good draft positions then you expect more at least a couple contributions outside of the first overall picks from the 10/11 drafts and the highest 09 pick.
How can he be faulted for the Paajarvi pick? It was considered a steal of a pick until this season

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06-06-2012, 05:28 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Dubnyk/Eberle/Petry drafted before Tambellini? His success rate in drafting seems to be quite low outside the consensus no1s that any GM would make. Paajarvi ahead of Kulikov/Rundblad for example and a lack of contribution so far outside of the 1st round since 2009 (I guess you can include Lander but not a huge contribution there). Obviously the jury's still out and you gotta give time for those prospects to develop but if you're a rebuilding team with good draft positions then you expect more at least a couple contributions outside of the first overall picks from the 10/11 drafts and the highest 09 pick.
Dubnyk was an 04 draft pick and Petry was selected in 06. Eberle was drafted by Tambellini.

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06-06-2012, 05:28 PM
  #118
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This is why the Oilers are the laughing stock of the NHL.

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06-06-2012, 05:32 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Are you talking about a Steve Tambellini problem? Or are you talking about 'Edmonton is a bad UFA destination' problem?

Like he fumbled the MPS callup situation, and possibly the handling of Souray, but I don't know if I could fault him for the rest of the fiasco.


I sure as hell am glad he didn't go Brian Burke on this team, and traded Hall for Kessel, Hopkins for Pfaneuf, and traded a prospect starting goalie for a has-been/never was. It seems like some of you guys would have preferred that.
His trades have been suspect as well. We can go around this all day but can you name 3 trades since he has been here that he has clearly won?

We can make excuses for him all day but you can only go with the history so far his pro scouting, free agent acquisitions and trades have been average at best. That is a reality.

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06-06-2012, 05:32 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
His trades and free agent acquisitions have been average at best. Not confident he is the guy that can fill in the gaps to move this team forward.
I agree. He has also failed miserably in the PR game. Like it or not, that is important. Not detailed oriented as evidenced by his administrative goofs. His wins have been mainly due to doing nothing. If you think about it, he could have even drafted differently and we would be in pretty good shape.

He just does not display the type of leadership qualities I would like to see. I just hope rival GM's/agents/players are not as annoyed by him and his horrible communication skills as I am.

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06-06-2012, 05:33 PM
  #121
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Dubnyk was an 04 draft pick and Petry was selected in 06. Eberle was drafted by Tambellini.
No the draft happens in June. I think Tambellini was hired in July. Check his draft video, Tambellini isn't there (although Sam Gagner with a mullet is?). Eberle was drafted before

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Except the "success" of the last couple years from my perspective isn't judged by our place in the standings, but by how our kids develop. They have developed well.

I'm not sure why you would trade finishing higher in the standings (yet out of the playoffs) at the expense of our young player development.
Because he said 5 yr rebuild. This is fine and all but a team rarey goes from around last place to a playoff competitor. Not saying it won't work but it's gonna take longer than 5 or 6 yrs for sure.

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06-06-2012, 05:37 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
No the draft happens in June. I think Tambellini was hired in July. Check his draft video, Tambellini isn't there (although Sam Gagner with a mullet is?). Eberle was drafted before
you are right, I stand corrected, he did sign Eberle though in March of 09.

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06-06-2012, 05:39 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
His trades have been suspect as well. We can go around this all day but can you name 3 trades since he has been here that he has clearly won?

We can make excuses for him all day but you can only go with the history so far his pro scouting, free agent acquisitions and trades have been average at best. That is a reality.
I don't mind the following;
Fraser for Smyth
Foster for Sutton
Cole(ufa) for 2nd and POS
Vandermeer for POS
Cogs for 2nd

I ask which ones did he clearly lose?

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06-06-2012, 05:45 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I don't mind the following;
Fraser for Smyth
Foster for Sutton
Cole(ufa) for 2nd and POS
Vandermeer for POS
Cogs for 2nd

I ask which ones did he clearly lose?
Don't forget Staios for Johnson and a 3rd rounder (i think?)

Then again, Sutter was going crazy at that time. But good on Tamby for taking advantage.

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06-06-2012, 05:45 PM
  #125
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So the difference between success and failure for you was 6 measly points?

Again seems very minor and the result ends up being better for us.
It's not so much the 6 points but what it points to with the direction of this team. If this team showed some improvements in the standings then I would perhaps have some faith that when the time came that Tambellini would be able to add some good veteran depth. Thus far basically every veteran signing he has made has been a flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Without another lottery pick, we are doomed to be in Atlanta Thrashers mode of annual ineptitude. Sorry, but we needed another lottery pick if we ever hope to one day contend.

You can feel free to disagree with me, but I think we're in better shape with 3x 1st Overall picks, than the Islanders with their 1, and the Avalanche with their 2x 2nd overalls.
Acquiring 1st overall picks is great. You can't build a team on 3 or 4 outstanding offensive players though. Any team, to be successful needs competent goaltending, defense, and forward depth. Tambellini has failed miserably at addressing any of those areas. I have said this many times before. A rebuild suggests a build towards something. Thus far the team is floundering. A 5 year rebuild does not mean that in year 5 you start competing for the playoffs it means in year 5 you start competing for the cup. Does anyone honestly think the Oilers are a 2 seasons away from competing for the Stanley Cup?

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Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness View Post
Except the "success" of the last couple years from my perspective isn't judged by our place in the standings, but by how our kids develop. They have developed well.

I'm not sure why you would trade finishing higher in the standings (yet out of the playoffs) at the expense of our young player development.
In what universe does success in the standings hinder the development of young players? How would Steve Tambellini having assembled a passable defensive top 6 hurt the development of Hall or RNH or Eberle?

Keep in mind that this season was not a resounding success for all of our prospects. RNH, Eberle, and Hall all had great seasons, but Paajarvi took a massive step backwards, Lander toiled away on the 4th line. It's tough to screw up a 1st overall pick. In order to be successful, along with developing your gimme picks, you got to develop some of the rest. That didn't really happen this year. Maybe with Petry.

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