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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XIII

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06-08-2012, 09:24 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
You know, I never understood the "mistreatment" arguement

Yes I loved Knuble and Halpern too. But, they got scratched for a reason.

Hunter felt like it didnt fit with his system or he never liked what he saw from them.

Not like he did it for fun
The "mistreatment argument" exists because the reason they were scratched (Halpern in particular) isn't readily apparent.

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06-08-2012, 09:24 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
You know, I never understood the "mistreatment" arguement

Yes I loved Knuble and Halpern too. But, they got scratched for a reason.

Hunter felt like it didnt fit with his system or he never liked what he saw from them.

Not like he did it for fun
Except he was wrong to do so. There's no logical reason to play Aucoin consistently over Halpern in a 4th line role. A few games to fiddle with the energy/motivations of the players? Fine. But Halpern did everything Aucoin did at basically the same effectiveness (both were good at contributing to the cycle of that 4th line) while also being unquestionably better at faceoffs and the defensive side of the game.

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06-08-2012, 09:28 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Yep, and Halpern was a miserable ******* in the team press box because of it. Not sure who made the call to have Aucoin over him in the lineup.....Hunter or McPhee....Hunter or McPhee....
Yeah, it's why I used the generic 'they'.

Somebody ****ed up. He's a perfect 4th line player for this team.

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06-08-2012, 09:31 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
You know, I never understood the "mistreatment" arguement

Yes I loved Knuble and Halpern too. But, they got scratched for a reason.

Hunter felt like it didnt fit with his system or he never liked what he saw from them.

Not like he did it for fun
True, nothing Hunter did as a coach was "fun".

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06-08-2012, 09:47 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Except he was wrong to do so. There's no logical reason to play Aucoin consistently over Halpern in a 4th line role. A few games to fiddle with the energy/motivations of the players? Fine. But Halpern did everything Aucoin did at basically the same effectiveness (both were good at contributing to the cycle of that 4th line) while also being unquestionably better at faceoffs and the defensive side of the game.
Interestingly enough...the Caps coaching staff relies VERY heavily on statistics (almost too much IMO after hearing some details). That was the main reason Schultz was in over Erskine. LESS bad stuff happens in the defensive end with Schultz on ice instead of Erskine. I was pretty surprised when I heard the stats favored Schultz in a big way. Basically, Erskine's intangibles (toughness/hitting) wasn't even close to enough to unseat Schultz from his spot in the lineup. I suspect a similar analysis/decision was made with Aucoin.

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06-08-2012, 09:52 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Somebody ****ed up. He's a perfect 4th line player for this team.
In a defensive/PK/FO role, yes, but ideally I'd prefer someone bigger and more physical. Beagle pretty much took his role on...and then some. Of course, who knows what would have happened in Game 5 had he been available to help them win a ****ing faceoff late.

He was also hurt by playing for a team that was pretty unstable offensively higher in the lineup and it leading to the appeal of the longshot spark of an Aucoin. The blowback of shell mode.

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06-08-2012, 09:52 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Interestingly enough...the Caps coaching staff relies VERY heavily on statistics (almost too much IMO after hearing some details). That was the main reason Schultz was in over Erskine. LESS bad stuff happens in the defensive end with Schultz on ice instead of Erskine. I was pretty surprised when I heard the stats favored Schultz in a big way. Basically, Erskine's intangibles (toughness/hitting) wasn't even close to enough to unseat Schultz from his spot in the lineup. I suspect a similar analysis/decision was made with Aucoin.
I'd love to read the statistical analysis that kept Wideman playing 20 minutes and Johansson on PP1.

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06-08-2012, 09:53 AM
  #108
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I don't see how stats could have possibly favored Aucoin. He had no sample size to reasonably draw any conclusions.

If they did use stats to pick Aucoin over Halpern, they need to never use stats again, because they have no idea how to use them.

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06-08-2012, 10:05 AM
  #109
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What would everyone think about trading for Cody Franson? I think it would be a solid addition to the team

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06-08-2012, 10:07 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
I'd love to read the statistical analysis that kept Wideman playing 20 minutes and Johansson on PP1.
No you wouldn't, it would just infuriate you even more....

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06-08-2012, 10:08 AM
  #111
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What would everyone think about trading for Cody Franson? I think it would be a solid addition to the team
What hole does he fill?

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06-08-2012, 10:09 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I don't see how stats could have possibly favored Aucoin. He had no sample size to reasonably draw any conclusions.

If they did use stats to pick Aucoin over Halpern, they need to never use stats again, because they have no idea how to use them.
From what I was told last week, statistical analysis plays heavily into the lineup selected. My first reaction was, "where's the coach's gut feeling come into play?". I got the impression that the team operates this way in large part with lineup selection. I think it's a McPhee directive, but I'm guessing on that part.

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06-08-2012, 10:13 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
From what I was told last week, statistical analysis plays heavily into the lineup selected. My first reaction was, "where's the coach's gut feeling come into play?". I got the impression that the team operates this way in large part with lineup selection. I think it's a McPhee directive, but I'm guessing on that part.
If true, that's terrible. No coach should need stats to figure out who the best players are, or how to put them together to ice the best team. Stats should be used as a validation if anything.

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06-08-2012, 10:29 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
From what I was told last week, statistical analysis plays heavily into the lineup selected. My first reaction was, "where's the coach's gut feeling come into play?". I got the impression that the team operates this way in large part with lineup selection. I think it's a McPhee directive, but I'm guessing on that part.
Hockey version of Moneyball?

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06-08-2012, 10:39 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by HunterSThompson View Post
Hockey version of Moneyball?
There's some of that going around, but most reports seem to suggest the Caps aren't/weren't at the forefront of advanced-stats usage. I wonder if this is a more recent development, or if maybe they're half-assing it (given the decisions they've ended up making that would seem to be the case)?

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06-08-2012, 10:40 AM
  #116
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I agree with the sentiment that attributing lunatic decisions to statistics is giving Hunter (I've never heard of a GM making consistent lineup decisions in a playoff stretch) far too much credit.

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06-08-2012, 10:46 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterSThompson View Post
Hockey version of Moneyball?

Certainly sounds like it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
There's some of that going around, but most reports seem to suggest the Caps aren't/weren't at the forefront of advanced-stats usage. I wonder if this is a more recent development, or if maybe they're half-assing it (given the decisions they've ended up making that would seem to be the case)?


I think they've ramped up in that area.....very stat heavy today.

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06-08-2012, 10:49 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
I agree with the sentiment that attributing lunatic decisions to statistics is giving Hunter (I've never heard of a GM making consistent lineup decisions in a playoff stretch) far too much credit.
I'd never heard an agent (Semin's) say "the issue isn't with the coach, it's with the 'team" with regards to his player's role. Sounds very much like critical roster/lineup decisions are made at the McPhee or higher level.

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06-08-2012, 10:53 AM
  #119
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Hunter's pat answer was: "We'll watch the videos"..which was probaly where his decisions began and ended.

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06-08-2012, 11:08 AM
  #120
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I mean is it too much to ask to have a GM who handles contracts and roster building, and a coach who handles hockey and the players?

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06-08-2012, 11:11 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
From what I was told last week...
And who pray tell told you this...?

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06-08-2012, 11:17 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
There's some of that going around, but most reports seem to suggest the Caps aren't/weren't at the forefront of advanced-stats usage. I wonder if this is a more recent development, or if maybe they're half-assing it (given the decisions they've ended up making that would seem to be the case)?
Per Custance, apparently they're using some sort of advanced statistical analysis in their coaching search (though McPhee wouldn't disclose details).

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06-08-2012, 11:21 AM
  #123
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After going through hundreds of advanced statistics, I've come to the educated conclusion that Aucoin ****ing sucks.

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06-08-2012, 11:21 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
I mean is it too much to ask to have a GM who handles contracts and roster building, and a coach who handles hockey and the players?
They can't be isolated from each other, though. The GM has to have a say in the overall strategy (if not the tactics) because he's the one who knows which moves can be made and which can't. Knows which types of player he can bring in to fill which types of roles.

GMGM shouldn't be dictating icetime or line combos or whatever. GMGM absolutely has to be involved in the discussion of the structure of the system and how that relates to the makeup of the roster.

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06-08-2012, 11:25 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
They can't be isolated from each other, though. The GM has to have a say in the overall strategy (if not the tactics) because he's the one who knows which moves can be made and which can't. Knows which types of player he can bring in to fill which types of roles.

GMGM shouldn't be dictating icetime or line combos or whatever. GMGM absolutely has to be involved in the discussion of the structure of the system and how that relates to the makeup of the roster.
Knowledge of the strategy and input into it are two different things, though. I think he should have the former but not the latter.

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