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06-08-2012, 12:15 AM
  #26
WarriorofTime
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Not enough Zach Parise or Ryan Suter.

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06-08-2012, 05:03 AM
  #27
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when you read this thread, I get confirmation about what I thought. Many don't really understand how Q works or don't get what they see.
Q always had an offensiv, puck possesion style with Forward depth. To that, he always had nothing more than average goaltending and a solid D with a #1 DMan on it. His teams always were solid from line 1 to line 4. I like the LA comparison because the roster the Kings have is not a roster Q could work with. Q would be a good coach for the Nucks, Flyers or Pens. Offensiv minded teams with deep forward depth.

I like the comparision to the 09/10 team. It's true that we don't have that depth anymore and as soon as we lost the depth, we needed the core to win us the games in the RS - they did. Come PO time, the core alone is never enough to win. Hawks never had a 30 goal scorer on the 3rd line. Hawks now have too much dead Cap weith in a guy like Frolik. Buff, Ladd, Kopy and Steeger got 8.8 million combined. Stalberg is the only depth guy that is good as of now... A 4th Line with Carcillo & Krüger + ?? would not be worse than what we had or would be good enough for other teams as 3rd line.

That's also a reason why Bowman doubters have to give him more time. He had no supporting players left and no money to sign them. Next year will be a bit different and 12/13 will be the year where we have to have THE top contending team.
Give us a better depth that always outplays the opponent will make our team better for sure. Leddy is not as bad as some make him out to be - so is Oduya and Hjammer and all the others.
Bowman did a good job to give us a solid - nothing special - goaltender. He restructured the D and made it better overall. The DMen fit the style of the team and they are more than good enough to win the Cup with us. Give us a better forward depth and they are not in the situation they are now. They will not be stuck in their own zone. They will not have to clear the crease that much. They will not have the chance to suck.

And for all those goals scored D wins lovers... Hawks, Flyers, Bs and Nucks all had elite Forward depth in the last 2 years.

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06-08-2012, 05:53 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
when you read this thread, I get confirmation about what I thought. Many don't really understand how Q works or don't get what they see.
Q always had an offensiv, puck possesion style with Forward depth. To that, he always had nothing more than average goaltending and a solid D with a #1 DMan on it. His teams always were solid from line 1 to line 4. I like the LA comparison because the roster the Kings have is not a roster Q could work with. Q would be a good coach for the Nucks, Flyers or Pens. Offensiv minded teams with deep forward depth.

I like the comparision to the 09/10 team. It's true that we don't have that depth anymore and as soon as we lost the depth, we needed the core to win us the games in the RS - they did. Come PO time, the core alone is never enough to win. Hawks never had a 30 goal scorer on the 3rd line. Hawks now have too much dead Cap weith in a guy like Frolik. Buff, Ladd, Kopy and Steeger got 8.8 million combined. Stalberg is the only depth guy that is good as of now... A 4th Line with Carcillo & Krüger + ?? would not be worse than what we had or would be good enough for other teams as 3rd line.

That's also a reason why Bowman doubters have to give him more time. He had no supporting players left and no money to sign them. Next year will be a bit different and 12/13 will be the year where we have to have THE top contending team.
Give us a better depth that always outplays the opponent will make our team better for sure. Leddy is not as bad as some make him out to be - so is Oduya and Hjammer and all the others.
Bowman did a good job to give us a solid - nothing special - goaltender. He restructured the D and made it better overall. The DMen fit the style of the team and they are more than good enough to win the Cup with us. Give us a better forward depth and they are not in the situation they are now. They will not be stuck in their own zone. They will not have to clear the crease that much. They will not have the chance to suck.

And for all those goals scored D wins lovers... Hawks, Flyers, Bs and Nucks all had elite Forward depth in the last 2 years.
Your so right defense wins you nothing it's all about goal scoring.

That's why the winner of every first round series but 1 (NJ v FLA) scored less goals in the regular season then their opponent.

Yotes (17th in scoring) beat Hawks (5th in scoring)

Kings (29th in scoring) beat Vancouver (4th in scoring)

St. Louis (22nd in scoring) beat San Jose (12th in scoring)

Nashville (7th in scoring) beat Detroit (5th in scoring)

NYR (13th in scoring) beat Ottawa (4th in scoring)

Philly (3rd in scoring) beat Pittsburgh (1st in scoring)

Washington (15th in scoring) beat Boston (2nd in scoring)

4 of the top 5 scoring teams lost in the first round and the other top 5 scoring team lost in the 2nd round.

8 of the top 10 scoring teams in the NHL made the play-offs. Conversely all 10 of the top defensive team made the play-offs.

But please tell me more about how scoring wins and defense doesn't.

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06-08-2012, 10:06 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
when you read this thread, I get confirmation about what I thought. Many don't really understand how Q works or don't get what they see.
Q always had an offensiv, puck possesion style with Forward depth. To that, he always had nothing more than average goaltending and a solid D with a #1 DMan on it. His teams always were solid from line 1 to line 4. I like the LA comparison because the roster the Kings have is not a roster Q could work with. Q would be a good coach for the Nucks, Flyers or Pens. Offensiv minded teams with deep forward depth.

I like the comparision to the 09/10 team. It's true that we don't have that depth anymore and as soon as we lost the depth, we needed the core to win us the games in the RS - they did. Come PO time, the core alone is never enough to win. Hawks never had a 30 goal scorer on the 3rd line. Hawks now have too much dead Cap weith in a guy like Frolik. Buff, Ladd, Kopy and Steeger got 8.8 million combined. Stalberg is the only depth guy that is good as of now... A 4th Line with Carcillo & Krüger + ?? would not be worse than what we had or would be good enough for other teams as 3rd line.

That's also a reason why Bowman doubters have to give him more time. He had no supporting players left and no money to sign them. Next year will be a bit different and 12/13 will be the year where we have to have THE top contending team.
Give us a better depth that always outplays the opponent will make our team better for sure. Leddy is not as bad as some make him out to be - so is Oduya and Hjammer and all the others.
Bowman did a good job to give us a solid - nothing special - goaltender. He restructured the D and made it better overall. The DMen fit the style of the team and they are more than good enough to win the Cup with us. Give us a better forward depth and they are not in the situation they are now. They will not be stuck in their own zone. They will not have to clear the crease that much. They will not have the chance to suck.

And for all those goals scored D wins lovers... Hawks, Flyers, Bs and Nucks all had elite Forward depth in the last 2 years.
Oh boy. What a brutal and disillusioned post.

People need to realize that the Hawk team will likely never have the depth they had in the SC year. It is up to Stan to fill the blatant gaps he has created in his haphazard fire sale of players that were salary dumps .... and it is Q's job to adapt to the players on the current roster. Not try to put a square peg in a round hole.

They both are swimming upstream at the moment.

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06-08-2012, 10:12 PM
  #30
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personally, I think stan supplied q with a respectable roster last year but Q was unable to adapt to the change. I still think crawford is a respectable goalie and I absolutely believe our PP and PK should be worlds better than last year.

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06-08-2012, 10:13 PM
  #31
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06-08-2012, 10:14 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Oh boy. What a brutal and disillusioned post.

People need to realize that the Hawk team will likely never have the depth they had in the SC year. It is up to Stan to fill the blatant gaps he has created in his haphazard fire sale of players that were salary dumps .... and it is Q's job to adapt to the players on the current roster. Not try to put a square peg in a round hole.

They both are swimming upstream at the moment.
I am going to disagree here a bit as I guess the optimist in me does see us 2 years down the road as just as deep as just as highend as we were in 2010.

A lot of hope and assuming on my part, but isnt that the whole point in talking future and prospects?

Nobody thought that Versteeg, Sharp, Buff, or Ladd would be much of crap when we got them....Ladd was solid but his role really took off with the Hawks. Those guys all stepped up and turned into great players in pretty much the same system we have now.

I really do see a lot of the 08-09 Hawks in this years squad as the likes of Leddy, Hayes, Shaw, Saad, Morin, Olsen, etc are all just starting to get to the show. These guys can play big roles on this team, and as it looks some will be given that chance.

Saad, Morin, and McNeill could be three major role players next year, you simply never know. These kids all have size, grit, some offensive ability, and all arent bad in their own end... this is the core of something very solid imo..

you fill these young guys in with the current talent we have, and if these young guys reach the level that those guys above them did, then this team is even more deadly then the 2010 team because I think our depth would be even sicker with the addition of that right 1-2 veterans like Slater or Hannan....

I am pissed the way this off season has turned out, and I think Bowman is afraid to make much of a splash, but if this guy can draft, and some of these kids turn out this year, we are well on our way to 2010 again even with our overall defense and tending...

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06-08-2012, 10:18 PM
  #33
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/\ Ok ... fair enough, but what about Q's coaching, his inability to adapt and his piss poor specialty teams?

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06-08-2012, 10:20 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
personally, I think stan supplied q with a respectable roster last year but Q was unable to adapt to the change. I still think crawford is a respectable goalie and I absolutely believe our PP and PK should be worlds better than last year.
pretty much agree 100%. Blaming Bowman for last years team is stupid as we had enough talent to win, team did not execute simple as that. that is a failure of coaching not upper management.

I am down on Bowman right now for resigning 3 guys I dont think should have been, but I still believe there is more then enough talent to make it to the Finals on this team if we add the right 1-2 veterans, 2 of our kids step up and play lights out (ideally Saad and Morin), and Crawford moves past that sophmore slump....remember how many Montreal fans wanted to toss out Price after his sophmore year??

give the kid a chance.

and oh yeah, our coaches pull their heads out their *****, and actually implement solid power play and penalty killing schemes...thats more gigantic then anything imo. if this team improves by 6-8 spots on both sides of the pk and pp, this team is a top 3 team end of story.

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06-08-2012, 10:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
/\ Ok ... fair enough, but what about Q's coaching, his inability to adapt and his piss poor specialty teams?
just saw your post, my post above clearly addresses that...and I agree 100%...Q is on the hot seat simple as that, McD isnt going to stay loyal for too long if the Hawks lose their luster

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06-08-2012, 10:40 PM
  #36
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pretty much agree 100%. Blaming Bowman for last years team is stupid as we had enough talent to win, team did not execute simple as that. that is a failure of coaching not upper management.
I am down on Bowman right now for resigning 3 guys I dont think should have been, but I still believe there is more then enough talent to make it to the Finals on this team if we add the right 1-2 veterans, 2 of our kids step up and play lights out (ideally Saad and Morin), and Crawford moves past that sophmore slump....remember how many Montreal fans wanted to toss out Price after his sophmore year??

give the kid a chance.

.
Bowman couldn't bring in the necessary talent last season even though he had the cap room to do so. What makes you think he can do it going forward? And comparing Price in any shape or form, to Crawford. Are you serious?

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06-08-2012, 11:01 PM
  #37
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Bowman couldn't bring in the necessary talent last season even though he had the cap room to do so. What makes you think he can do it going forward? And comparing Price in any shape or form, to Crawford. Are you serious?
Bowman really didnt have that much cap room last year, and who would you have the Hawks gotten instead of what we got? not being an ass, just curious to see who you thought we should have targeted with our available budget. I am sure there were better options out there, but at the time much of the signings made sense for our areas of need...just didnt work out as such.

Depending on the cap for this hopeful upcoming season, we will have more room then we did last year, much more room, so though I dont expect them to do much with it, the opportunity is there.

Like I said, we have good young guys that I want to see get a chance (Morin, McNeill, Saad, Beach), top 9 chance, and with the current core we have, this team really only needs to add 2-3 solid veteran pieces to this team and I think we are well above last years team.....though when you throw in coaching and our anemic special teams, that hurts us...but cant do anything about that right now....

I expect Bowman to go hard after Jim Slater, I really do. I expect him to move hard for a hopeful Barret Jackman/Bryan Allen (stay at home dman) or a Joe Corvo/Sheldon Souray/Matt Carle (power play point man)...dont want to hear about these guys being old, slow, or whatever...they fill roles we need and outside of Carle will come pretty cheap overall....

as for Crawford and Price, I would hope you understood what context I was trying to convey with that as Montreal fans wanted to ride Price out of town for his sophmore slump...luckily management didnt listen to the fans as the kid turned it around...I am not comparing Crawford to Price, I am just saying sophmore slumps happen, and if you give your younger goalie a shot to redeem himself, good things can happen...no reason to run Crawford out right now, let the kid prove us right or wrong then go from there....

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06-09-2012, 12:39 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
Bowman really didnt have that much cap room last year, and who would you have the Hawks gotten instead of what we got? not being an ass, just curious to see who you thought we should have targeted with our available budget. I am sure there were better options out there, but at the time much of the signings made sense for our areas of need...just didnt work out as such.

Depending on the cap for this hopeful upcoming season, we will have more room then we did last year, much more room, so though I dont expect them to do much with it, the opportunity is there.

Like I said, we have good young guys that I want to see get a chance (Morin, McNeill, Saad, Beach), top 9 chance, and with the current core we have, this team really only needs to add 2-3 solid veteran pieces to this team and I think we are well above last years team.....though when you throw in coaching and our anemic special teams, that hurts us...but cant do anything about that right now....

I expect Bowman to go hard after Jim Slater, I really do. I expect him to move hard for a hopeful Barret Jackman/Bryan Allen (stay at home dman) or a Joe Corvo/Sheldon Souray/Matt Carle (power play point man)...dont want to hear about these guys being old, slow, or whatever...they fill roles we need and outside of Carle will come pretty cheap overall....

as for Crawford and Price, I would hope you understood what context I was trying to convey with that as Montreal fans wanted to ride Price out of town for his sophmore slump...luckily management didnt listen to the fans as the kid turned it around...I am not comparing Crawford to Price, I am just saying sophmore slumps happen, and if you give your younger goalie a shot to redeem himself, good things can happen...no reason to run Crawford out right now, let the kid prove us right or wrong then go from there....
Huge difference Carey Price was a very talented young goalie who everyone thought would be a stud, he had the talent to be a great goalie and his sophomore slump happened when he was just 20 years old.

Corey Crawford was 27 during his "sophomore" slump which wasn't even his true sophomore year, he had played in the NHL several times earlier, usually only a few games at a time because he was never good enough to stay. Even when the Hawks where going through goalie after goalie Crawford never became the guy until he simple had the chops to keep the job, it wasn't until the Hawks had no one left before he finally got to stay. Well this year we saw why he was never kept up before, because he simply isn't that good, this year was the abnormal year, last year was, this year he played like he had everytime before. So you can't compare him to guys like Howard, Price, Fleury and other goalies who actually started playing when they were called up and at a young age and a guy like Crawford who was given many chances and finally stayed when there was no one else.

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06-09-2012, 12:50 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Huge difference Carey Price was a very talented young goalie who everyone thought would be a stud, he had the talent to be a great goalie and his sophomore slump happened when he was just 20 years old.

Corey Crawford was 27 during his "sophomore" slump which wasn't even his true sophomore year, he had played in the NHL several times earlier, usually only a few games at a time because he was never good enough to stay. Even when the Hawks where going through goalie after goalie Crawford never became the guy until he simple had the chops to keep the job, it wasn't until the Hawks had no one left before he finally got to stay. Well this year we saw why he was never kept up before, because he simply isn't that good, this year was the abnormal year, last year was, this year he played like he had everytime before. So you can't compare him to guys like Howard, Price, Fleury and other goalies who actually started playing when they were called up and at a young age and a guy like Crawford who was given many chances and finally stayed when there was no one else.
What's the difference between Howard and Crawford? Fleury and Price were top 5 picks of course they were pretty quick to make the NHL and were supposed to be Franchise Goalies. But Howard and Crawford were both 2nd round picks who took a long time in the AHL, had good first years and then bad second years. Howard had a good third year. It's not inconceivable Crawford can as well.

And when were the Hawks going through "goalie after goalie". They signed Khabibulin in 05-06 and he was the Starter for the next four years. Surely you don't think Crawford should have came in right out of Juniors and become a starting NHL Goalie or else it means he sucked. Crawford had a total of 5 NHL starts and a few relief appearances before 2010-2011. He didn't have "many chances".


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06-09-2012, 12:51 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Huge difference Carey Price was a very talented young goalie who everyone thought would be a stud, he had the talent to be a great goalie and his sophomore slump happened when he was just 20 years old.

Corey Crawford was 27 during his "sophomore" slump which wasn't even his true sophomore year, he had played in the NHL several times earlier, usually only a few games at a time because he was never good enough to stay. Even when the Hawks where going through goalie after goalie Crawford never became the guy until he simple had the chops to keep the job, it wasn't until the Hawks had no one left before he finally got to stay. Well this year we saw why he was never kept up before, because he simply isn't that good, this year was the abnormal year, last year was, this year he played like he had everytime before. So you can't compare him to guys like Howard, Price, Fleury and other goalies who actually started playing when they were called up and at a young age and a guy like Crawford who was given many chances and finally stayed when there was no one else.
how isnt it his true sophmore year? the guy played 2 games, 5 games, and 1 game over 3 different years, hardly what I would call a freshman campaign.

dont care about his age, his sophmore slump is a true sophmore slump, and with you talking about Price as a stud and that he was younger, thats even crazier for Montreal fans to want to toss him out knowing his studness and youth....

again, not comparing Price and Crawford as goalies, only saying fans jump off the ledge too soon no matter if a top 5 pick or CC....this was only his 2nd year in the league, you cant tell the future anymore then I can, we dont know what this guy will do for us this coming year.... also he did post a .929 and .914 save % in 2 of those short stints, he played well enough to last in the NHL longer, Hawks just didnt have room or didnt give him the chance to run with it...

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06-09-2012, 02:42 AM
  #41
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What's the difference between Howard and Crawford? Fleury and Price were top 5 picks of course they were pretty quick to make the NHL and were supposed to be Franchise Goalies. But Howard and Crawford were both 2nd round picks who took a long time in the AHL, had good first years and then bad second years. Howard had a good third year. It's not inconceivable Crawford can as well.

And when were the Hawks going through "goalie after goalie". They signed Khabibulin in 05-06 and he was the Starter for the next four years. Surely you don't think Crawford should have came in right out of Juniors and become a starting NHL Goalie or else it means he sucked. Crawford had a total of 5 NHL starts and a few relief appearances before 2010-2011. He didn't have "many chances".
Why didn't he have many chances? Why after Khabby left did the team sign Huet, Turco, Niemi before finally giving Crawford his time, if he was a great or even good goalie he would have beaten those guys out for the job, but because he isn't a good goalie he wasn't given the chance until the Hawks ran out of goalie options.

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06-09-2012, 03:09 AM
  #42
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how isnt it his true sophmore year? the guy played 2 games, 5 games, and 1 game over 3 different years, hardly what I would call a freshman campaign.

dont care about his age, his sophmore slump is a true sophmore slump, and with you talking about Price as a stud and that he was younger, thats even crazier for Montreal fans to want to toss him out knowing his studness and youth....

again, not comparing Price and Crawford as goalies, only saying fans jump off the ledge too soon no matter if a top 5 pick or CC....this was only his 2nd year in the league, you cant tell the future anymore then I can, we dont know what this guy will do for us this coming year.... also he did post a .929 and .914 save % in 2 of those short stints, he played well enough to last in the NHL longer, Hawks just didnt have room or didnt give him the chance to run with it...
What I mean by that is this isn't a guy who was fresh out of the minors of juniors and never seen the NHL sophomore year, this was a guy who, yes sparingly, had still seen NHL time.

Yes in those shot stints he had decent numbers, so why didn't he stay? Why wasn't he the guy if he was posting good NHL numbers? Maybe because the team knew he couldn't be the everyday #1 and from what we saw this year they look right.

I am not defending Montreal fans, being a goalie in Montreal is the toughest job in sports maybe, your compared to Plante, Dryden and Roy and are expected to have a great year every year.

You might not care about his age but I do, a goalie should be in his prime at Crawfords age, not coming off a bad sophomore year, look at the Vezina finalist, Quick was 26 this year, and Rinne and Lunqdvist where both 29 to start the year. So we are expecting Crawford to at 29 to round into form when he should be playing his best?

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06-09-2012, 03:17 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Why didn't he have many chances? Why after Khabby left did the team sign Huet, Turco, Niemi before finally giving Crawford his time, if he was a great or even good goalie he would have beaten those guys out for the job, but because he isn't a good goalie he wasn't given the chance until the Hawks ran out of goalie options.
Anything earlier than 2008-2009 would have been rushing. Huet was signed when Khabibulin was still there. They probably could have brought up Crawford as the backup to Khabi that year but McDonagh/Tallon (depending on who you want to blame) wanted to make a splash signing to improve the goaltending since Khabi hadn't played great as a Hawk and the team was green-lighted to spend money. Crawford was dead even with Niemi heading into 2009-2010 but Niemi would have had to go through Waivers so Crawford went down. Niemi played well all year so there was no reason to make a switch mid-year. Hawks weren't going to enter the year with two AHL goalies the next year so they went and signed Turco. Crawford took the job from him fairly on though. But how long it took Crawford to make the NHL isn't really relevant. Rinne was 26 when he became an NHLer. Thomas was 31. Kiprusoff was 25, toiled as a backup for two years on the Sharks and then became a starter when he was 27. I'm not saying Crawford will ever be as good as those guys were just that with Goalies you can't just point to their age and say "why wasn't he in the NHL earlier?"

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06-09-2012, 06:43 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Your so right defense wins you nothing it's all about goal scoring.

That's why the winner of every first round series but 1 (NJ v FLA) scored less goals in the regular season then their opponent.

Yotes (17th in scoring) beat Hawks (5th in scoring)

Kings (29th in scoring) beat Vancouver (4th in scoring)

St. Louis (22nd in scoring) beat San Jose (12th in scoring)

Nashville (7th in scoring) beat Detroit (5th in scoring)

NYR (13th in scoring) beat Ottawa (4th in scoring)

Philly (3rd in scoring) beat Pittsburgh (1st in scoring)

Washington (15th in scoring) beat Boston (2nd in scoring)

4 of the top 5 scoring teams lost in the first round and the other top 5 scoring team lost in the 2nd round.

8 of the top 10 scoring teams in the NHL made the play-offs. Conversely all 10 of the top defensive team made the play-offs.

But please tell me more about how scoring wins and defense doesn't.
like I said, bla bla bla

back in 2010 when the Hawks won the Cup...

Hawks scored more goals than the Preds, Sharks and Flyers. Only 1 goal less than the Nucks
Flyers scored more goals than the Devils, Bruins and Habs


Last year, the Nucks made it to the finals with the best offense in the RS


AND to end all of this, there will be always a different reason why that team has won. It's you need elite D, next year it will be elite goaltending, next year Forward depth, next year D depth again. In the end, all Cup winners have one thing the others haven't had. They had a great team overall, got goaltending when they needed it, got scoring from their stars and got scoring from the depth guys. All played a great all around game. Coaching also is a good part of it. No player wins on their own.
Stats just showed you that it's not always and only defense that wins the Cup, this year in the 1st round it was the D. Nobody knows what will happen next year. All you need is a good team overall with a goalie that is hot at the right time.

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Oh boy. What a brutal and disillusioned post.

People need to realize that the Hawk team will likely never have the depth they had in the SC year. It is up to Stan to fill the blatant gaps he has created in his haphazard fire sale of players that were salary dumps .... and it is Q's job to adapt to the players on the current roster. Not try to put a square peg in a round hole.

They both are swimming upstream at the moment.
He has created? He HAD to creat. That's a big difference. Read the OP again with the part about Q. Q was always this way. He never needed elite goaltending. He always was successfull when he had forward depth.

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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Why didn't he have many chances? Why after Khabby left did the team sign Huet, Turco, Niemi before finally giving Crawford his time, if he was a great or even good goalie he would have beaten those guys out for the job, but because he isn't a good goalie he wasn't given the chance until the Hawks ran out of goalie options.
Since when do you follow the Hawks?

Crawford got the chance to stick once and he took advantage of it with a 3 year contract extension.

Khabby was the starter, then Tallon wanted to upgrade that position and made a mistake with the guy he did chose. Year one we had a tandem of Huet/Khabby. The year after, we still had Huet and Niemi got the chance to play in his hometown after a tie in training camp. Antti took the chance and has won the cup with us. The year after that, Crawford made the team and outplayed Turco. What chances did Crawford miss?

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06-09-2012, 11:14 AM
  #45
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like I said, bla bla bla

back in 2010 when the Hawks won the Cup...

Hawks scored more goals than the Preds, Sharks and Flyers. Only 1 goal less than the Nucks
Flyers scored more goals than the Devils, Bruins and Habs


Last year, the Nucks made it to the finals with the best offense in the RS


AND to end all of this, there will be always a different reason why that team has won. It's you need elite D, next year it will be elite goaltending, next year Forward depth, next year D depth again. In the end, all Cup winners have one thing the others haven't had. They had a great team overall, got goaltending when they needed it, got scoring from their stars and got scoring from the depth guys. All played a great all around game. Coaching also is a good part of it. No player wins on their own.
Stats just showed you that it's not always and only defense that wins the Cup, this year in the 1st round it was the D. Nobody knows what will happen next year. All you need is a good team overall with a goalie that is hot at the right time.



He has created? He HAD to creat. That's a big difference. Read the OP again with the part about Q. Q was always this way. He never needed elite goaltending. He always was successfull when he had forward depth.



Since when do you follow the Hawks?

Crawford got the chance to stick once and he took advantage of it with a 3 year contract extension.

Khabby was the starter, then Tallon wanted to upgrade that position and made a mistake with the guy he did chose. Year one we had a tandem of Huet/Khabby. The year after, we still had Huet and Niemi got the chance to play in his hometown after a tie in training camp. Antti took the chance and has won the cup with us. The year after that, Crawford made the team and outplayed Turco. What chances did Crawford miss?
people want to ***** for the sake of *****ing on here...

it is crazy how people are trying to compare Crawford to Quick or King Henrik and that he should have accomplished more then he has at his age.

every situation is different, as there are plenty of examples all over the board that has goalies kicking ass at 20 years old, and some that didnt get their shot until 25 or 28 years old.

that is why age does not bother me in hockey for a goalie, these guys take time to develope and teams are being more careful now then ever with them.

Look at Lehtonen for God's sake. that dude was picked 2nd overall and now is just finally looking like a legit #1 goalie...took him 7 years in the league to do it (though I remember he did play well for 1 year or so with the Thrashers)...

Also look at guys like Cory Schneider, Jonathan Bernier, and Tuukka Rask....these 3 cant miss kids are back ups....and all have been drafted years ago and should be #1 goalies right now...why is that? some are behind top goalies, I understand that, but it also shows how patient teams are being with these super talented kids as they arent handing over the reins as quickly as they did years past.

Schneider looks to finally be getting his shot, Bernier needs to get moved before he will, and Rask will get his again....all 3 should have accomplished more in the NHL by now, but circumstances have prevented much of that from happening...just like Crawford not getting his shot until last year, doesnt make him bad just like you wouldnt dare say that about the 3 goalies I listed.

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06-09-2012, 11:30 AM
  #46
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You are right. I really like what you have to say when your not that much biased with US players In the end you try to bring up stats and facts and make arguments.

Point is, Q needs a better Roster overall. Bowman gives him this roster but he needs time to do it. Q is fine with average goaltending, he always was. Bowman drafts and trades for young forwards to give us depth and buys to give us proven DMen.

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06-09-2012, 12:30 PM
  #47
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If the coach has a style that you can't win a Cup with unless you have noe of the deepest set of forwards in the cap area, a group that is very very difficult to assemble and requires a tremendous amount of luck, then maybe we should get rid of the coach for somebody better.


Bubba, I understand the point you're trying to make but the fact is it is just wrong. If you look at the roster from top to bottom the real need is for a better group of d men. Mainly, d men that play a more varied style than we have. I'd be fine with have three small PMD if you had three guys who could playing the boards and dig the puck out easily and give them the PMD the puck so they can get the transition game going. The fact is though, we don't, and no amount of forward depth will decrease the DA the Hawks allow. It is a VERY dangerous game to be okay with that and just say that no, we'll just outscore you. Very dangers, and it does require a one in a decade type forward group.

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06-09-2012, 01:30 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
He has created? He HAD to creat. That's a big difference. Read the OP again with the part about Q. Q was always this way. He never needed elite goaltending. He always was successfull when he had forward depth.

Stan did not NEED to dump Campbell, Brouwer and Campoli. He chose to. Fine we gained some cap space, but that extra cap space went all last season largely unspent, and worse, Stan had no forseeable plan to replace what we lost on the ice. As a result the team became softer and weaker and remains so. The feeble acquisitions like Morrison and Lepisto were no more than a bad joke.... and the signings of Frolik and Crawford were very questionable, especially the length of the contracts. And now Oduya. Stan is self distructing. He badly needs to pull off a few deals soon to stop this sinking ship... oh well, at least Rocky got richer, and the seats will be filled again this season by naive fans like you.

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06-09-2012, 01:35 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Stan did not NEED to dump Campbell, Brouwer and Campoli. He chose to. Fine we gained some cap space, but that extra cap space went all last season largely unspent, and worse, Stan had no forseeable plan to replace what we lost on the ice. As a result the team became softer and weaker and remains so. The feeble acquisitions like Morrison and Lepisto were no more than a bad joke.... and the signings of Frolik and Crawford were very questionable, especially the length of the contracts. And now Oduya. Stan is self distructing. He badly needs to pull off a few deals soon to stop this sinking ship... oh well, at least Rocky got richer, and the seats will be filled again this season by naive fans like you.
In before someone tells us that money went to resigning some players.

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06-09-2012, 01:37 PM
  #50
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Also, how bad is your coach if without one of the most talented forward corps in the cap era (maybe the most) he can't change his system even remotely to help the team be more successful?

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