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The 2012-2013 Boston Celtics Thread: Part II

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Old
07-01-2012, 06:49 AM
  #226
pgm16
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Without Rondo, the Big 3 are the Big 3 without a championship ring & no trips to ECF's or Finals

You coach & motivate players in different way.....some need stroking, some need pats on the back. some need kicks in the ass....I am sure Doc knows what he is doing....

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07-01-2012, 08:08 PM
  #227
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Marcus Camby is considering us, along with the Heat, Mavs, Spurs, and Knicks

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07-01-2012, 08:11 PM
  #228
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Marcus Camby is considering us, along with the Heat, Mavs, Spurs, and Knicks
He's still in the league?

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07-01-2012, 08:12 PM
  #229
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He's still in the league?


Still a good rebounder and shot blocker too

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07-01-2012, 08:15 PM
  #230
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Marcus Camby is considering us, along with the Heat, Mavs, Spurs, and Knicks
I'd love him in the role Jermaine Oneal or Shaq were in last couple years. I am sure Ainge feels the same way if Camby wants to come on board for reasonable money.

Have to think those other 4 teams are ahead of us on his wishlist (Id guess he goes to the Mavs or Knicks and if the money he wants isn't there he'll play for the heat.)

It would be pretty disgusting to see Allen and Camby take their talents to south beach to bandwagon onto a championship there (hopefully it would end up like the glove and the mailman not getting a ring in LA.)

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07-01-2012, 09:00 PM
  #231
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Still a good rebounder and shot blocker too
I thought he was done to be honest. Could be good for us and he's a local-ish boy too.

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07-02-2012, 11:32 AM
  #232
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Jeff Green close to re-signing.

Camby prioritizing a starting role. KG does not really want to play the 5 very much anymore. Perfect fit.

I.E. I bet it is down to us, the Heat, and the Mavs. And we have the most money to offer (though it wouldn't take much). And we are less occupied than the other teams (Heat still trying to woo Ray Ray, Mavs are focused on Deron Williams). Hopefully we can sneak him in.

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07-02-2012, 11:47 AM
  #233
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07-02-2012, 12:03 PM
  #234
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He's also come back and played after he dislocated his elbow. He's emotional/sensitive, but he cares about winning and gives it his all when the team needs him most. He always shows up for big games. I wouldn't trade him for anyone but KD or Lebron lol. When did 2 happen? I never heard about some of the things you said.




He was defending Lebron and Wade a lot. It's not laziness, it's nearly impossible.
#2 happened a couple years ago. This was WIDELY talked about on EEI, Sports Tonight and jiust about every Boston area talk radio show. He sat in his vehicle, refusing to come in because of an issue that he had with Doc. About 20 minutes before game time, Pierce and Perk had to go outside to the players parking lot and talk him into coming into the arena.

His immaturity shows itself all the time. Just in this postseason, he bumped an official and then said, that he "tripped." Bull. He walked over to him and chest bumped him. He also blew up at a camera man, getting in his face, who was simply recording him, as they did with everyone else.

I didnt even mention his locker room blow out between games 2 and 3 of the Heat series in, I believe it was 2010. Rivers called him out in the locker room for repeated mistakes, and Rondo responded by flipping out and ripping his teammates apart for their mistakes. He also shattered the video equipment screen by throwing a bottle at it.

And bottom line is that Chalmersd ate him alive in 3 games.

Later

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07-02-2012, 12:06 PM
  #235
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Segchise....Here Is A Link For Some Of It

Here is a link for some of it.

Laterhttp://www.nesn.com/2011/12/rajon-ro...ew-report.html

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:08 PM
  #236
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Rondo's a punk it's no secret, but I guess he is maturing. I'm still not opposed to trading him. Right now they can get a maximum return for him, and they're going to need to think about rebuilding soon, like it or not. Rondo isn't the kind of PG who's going to be able to carry this team on his own once the pieces around him are gone and the C's go young. I understand he has during the playoffs at times, but I don't think you can expect this to be consistent.

I still put him behind Paul, Rose, Deron Williams, and Tony Parker in terms of best PG's in the NBA.

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07-02-2012, 12:14 PM
  #237
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And that's why they are going to ride the Big 3 horse until it drops dead on the track. When this becomes "Rondo's team", they'll be under .500 for awhile.

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07-02-2012, 12:16 PM
  #238
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Lots of growing pains with Rajon.

Funny enough how much he sucked at Kentucky is probably the biggest thing I hold against him (Ainge thought he'd be a #1 overall draft pick before his freshmen year.)

Rivers is obviously pumping his tires after the season telling him he is the smartest player he ever coached to keep him happy. Rondo needs his balls stroked a little bit. He is still hurt by our GM and doesn't really like hearing the "big 3" stuff since he had a great series in 2008.


But the thing with Rondo is I think we have just gotten to his peak...and right now he is so damn good that you need to accept a certain amount of diva-ness from him. He was good in 2008-2011 but right now hes another level and out of this world good.

Now its his team I think his behavior and immaturity will be less of an issue. We should be past the worst of this stuff with Rondo. In his defense Ainge tried to trade him over and over again.


And the thing about Rondo is right now July 2012 he is just sooooo good right now. Easily one of the 5 best players in the NBA and arguably no true point guard in the history of basketball has played the position as well as Rondo did last playoffs (DJ Seattle Supersonics 78 Championship is maybe the closest thing.)


NBA superstars all have egos. There is plenty of room for PP, KG, and Rondo's ego. There is NO room whatsoever for Allens ego at this point since he is so washed up (hes happy to be a three point specialist in Miami or Indiana but not for us.) Add in the fact Rondo dislikes him way more than Pierce or KG and Ill drive him and his mom to the airport this morning.
Gotta disagree about top 5 player in the NBA.

I dont think he is the best point in the NBA. I clearly take both Rose and Paul over him. Hands down. He is in the conversation with Westbrook. Different types of players, but both have weak areas that Paul and Rose do not have.

James, Paul, Rose, Durant, Griffin, Kobe, Kevin Love are names I thought of in the 1st 20 seconds after I read your post.

Rondo IS top 5 when he comes to play. But the fact remains that he does not come to play every game. He takes days off against the lesser guards of the league. And please dont say that everyone does that, because they dont.

Also, you are creating a monster if you give in allow Rondo to dictate whether Allen comes back or not, based on the fact that Rondo does not like Allen.

BTW...Allen never said he didnt or would come back to the C's in a bench role. He HAS said that he IS willing to play a bench role in Boston. AGAIN, that was stated during the postseason. He clearly stated he would do so....HOWEVER, he first wants to investigate possible starting spots across the league.

Whats wrong with that? You act as if he is a loser because he would like to continue to start.

I have way more of an issue with an immature brat who breaks a video screen simply because he was called out for his mistakes during a game buy his coach. He threw his teammates under the bus by being a whiny baby when Doc called him out.

Make excuses for him all you want. He is a cry baby who happens to be a good basketball player.

Later

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07-02-2012, 12:18 PM
  #239
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My buddy keeps arguing with me that Russell Westbrook is better than Kevin Durant and is the 2nd best player in the league.

I don't know what to say anymore.

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:18 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by pgm16 View Post
Without Rondo, the Big 3 are the Big 3 without a championship ring & no trips to ECF's or Finals

You coach & motivate players in different way.....some need stroking, some need pats on the back. some need kicks in the ass....I am sure Doc knows what he is doing....
Without KG they dont win a title.
Without Allen they dont win a title.
Without Pierce they dont win a title.
Without Perk, they dont win a title.
Without James Posey they dont win the title.

Whats your point? Its a TEAM game. Not one of those players were responsible for winning the title. Its a team thing.

Later

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07-02-2012, 12:21 PM
  #241
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I'd love him in the role Jermaine Oneal or Shaq were in last couple years. I am sure Ainge feels the same way if Camby wants to come on board for reasonable money.

Have to think those other 4 teams are ahead of us on his wishlist (Id guess he goes to the Mavs or Knicks and if the money he wants isn't there he'll play for the heat.)

It would be pretty disgusting to see Allen and Camby take their talents to south beach to bandwagon onto a championship there (hopefully it would end up like the glove and the mailman not getting a ring in LA.)
After reading this post, it becomes crystal clear...

You clearly hate Ray Allen.. Therefore, it is an exercise in abject futility to have a rational discussion about basketball, the Celtics, Allen or Rondo, with you.

You cleary have an intense dislike for the man.

Later


Last edited by Jeff from Maine: 07-02-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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Old
07-02-2012, 12:36 PM
  #242
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Jeff Green close to re-signing.

Camby prioritizing a starting role. KG does not really want to play the 5 very much anymore. Perfect fit.

I.E. I bet it is down to us, the Heat, and the Mavs. And we have the most money to offer (though it wouldn't take much). And we are less occupied than the other teams (Heat still trying to woo Ray Ray, Mavs are focused on Deron Williams). Hopefully we can sneak him in.
However, KG acknowledged during the postseason that the 5 is the best thing for himm at this point in his career. He knows the better post players are not centers anymore...they are the 4's.

He will never be a guy who can put up more than 13 a game or get more than 7 boards a game as a PF. He needs to be a 5. He goes up against far fewer good players when he plays the center spot.

Later

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07-02-2012, 12:37 PM
  #243
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He's still in the league?
He could probably live off the money he received when he was at UMass alone in retirement, without even touching his NBA salary?

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Old
07-02-2012, 12:41 PM
  #244
Jeff from Maine
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Rondo's a punk it's no secret, but I guess he is maturing. I'm still not opposed to trading him. Right now they can get a maximum return for him, and they're going to need to think about rebuilding soon, like it or not. Rondo isn't the kind of PG who's going to be able to carry this team on his own once the pieces around him are gone and the C's go young. I understand he has during the playoffs at times, but I don't think you can expect this to be consistent.

I still put him behind Paul, Rose, Deron Williams, and Tony Parker in terms of best PG's in the NBA.
To me, Paul and Rose are hands down the 2 best. Nobody else is really close to them. When you take into account EVERYTHING...attitude, ability to control a gamne offensively from both the distribution and scoring aspects, they are clearly the 2 best. Defensively Paul is easily Rondos equal. Rondo gambles and misses a lot. Tools wise he is probably a better defender than Pul, but Paul is a far more cerebral and intelligent defender. You never see him go for steals and get beat. He knows better than to do that.

I put Rondo in that next group of 1's, along with Williams and Westbrook. They all do multiple things very well, but also have questionable character (in the case on Rondo and Westbrook) and significant weaknesses in certain skill areas.

Later

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07-02-2012, 12:55 PM
  #245
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He could probably live off the money he received when he was at UMass alone in retirement, without even touching his NBA salary?
Ouch.

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Old
07-02-2012, 01:09 PM
  #246
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He could probably live off the money he received when he was at UMass alone in retirement, without even touching his NBA salary?
It's funny because its true.

Accepted $28,000 from two sports agents. I'm sure he got a lot more as well.

As a college kid, that kind of money can buy me SOOOOOO many handles of Burnetts. I'd be able to live like the cheap vodka king. I can only imagine what he did with that cash at Zoomass

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07-02-2012, 01:32 PM
  #247
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To me, Paul and Rose are hands down the 2 best. Nobody else is really close to them. When you take into account EVERYTHING...attitude, ability to control a gamne offensively from both the distribution and scoring aspects, they are clearly the 2 best. Defensively Paul is easily Rondos equal. Rondo gambles and misses a lot. Tools wise he is probably a better defender than Pul, but Paul is a far more cerebral and intelligent defender. You never see him go for steals and get beat. He knows better than to do that.

I put Rondo in that next group of 1's, along with Williams and Westbrook. They all do multiple things very well, but also have questionable character (in the case on Rondo and Westbrook) and significant weaknesses in certain skill areas.

Later
People always forget about Tony Parker. He is just as good of a passer as Rondo, except he can create his offense by either slashing or shooting from the perimeter. To me, Rondo is a better slasher, but Parker is a much, much better shooter and the two are equal passing. When it comes down to it, when Duncan is doubled or shut down in the post Parker can take over. You saw it in flashes at times during the OKC series, but people see Rondo's 45 point game and that's what sticks out. All around Parker is a much better PG.

Westbrook isn't a PG, IMO. He is by virtue of being slotted into the position, but in reality he's a 2 guard that can dribble. He can't/won't pass, whatever it may be. OKC will be a much better team when they get a legit pass first PG. That will take the pressure off of Westbrook to set up KD, and will free up his offense even more than it already is. That's part of the reason they really, really missed Maynor this year in the post season. They can take out Perkins, slide Westbrook to the 2 and use Maynor at PG. This allows Ibaka to play C and they're virtually unstoppable.

That's the reason I wouldn't put Westbrook ahead of Rondo. Do you want your PG to score 30 plus a night? Yes. Do you need him to? No. You shouldn't be relying on you PG to score, you need to rely on him to set up an offense. Any offense of his own that comes from that is gravy. However, the PG's that can score AND pass are the ones that are the best in the league. Rose, Paul, Parker and Williams are all good to great passers, but they are ALSO great scorers. Until Rondo becomes both, he'll be behind these guys. But since Rondo is a true PG, he's more valuable than Westbrook because Westbrook's lack of passing hurts OKC in the end.

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07-02-2012, 03:47 PM
  #248
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After reading this post, it becomes crystal clear...

You clearly hate Ray Allen.. Therefore, it is an exercise in abject futility to have a rational discussion about basketball, the Celtics, Allen or Rondo, with you.

You cleary have an intense dislike for the man.

Later
No its not an intense dislike... its frustration that at this stage in his career he thinks we owe him something. The only dislike would be that I consider the Big 3 currently to be Rondo PP KG and he isn't even in the conversation anymore and if he thinks he is he's crazy.

I think he is an enourmous question mark for next year (and one that isn't going to be happy if he plays less than 20 minutes in a game.) Pierce and KG I know what to expect and a slower version of each is still a great player. A moody Allen who has lost his stroke (he struggled with FTs this year even though he did find his game eventually in the playoffs) isn't going to help us much.

If Ray wants to piggyback to a ring in Miami it takes a notch off his legacy here and there's no chance I say anything good about him until he retires or leaves the heat I promise you I will have an strong dislike then (its OK for fans to have all sorts of different opinions of a guy under those circumstance...I still love Manny Ramirez but lots of Boston fans don't unfortunately since they listen to the media.)


Rajon Rondo does things no other NBA point guard does. He is a pure distributor. Rose and Paul are good players but they are volume scorers who need a ton of shots. A scoring PG like Jeremy Lin could step into Chicago or LAC's teams and emulate Paul and Rose and just be a poor mans version of them...Jeremy Lin could never ever ever be a poor mans Rondo even in his dreams he wouldn't be able to see the court and pass the ball like Rajon.

2 years ago saying we'd be a 500 team without good players around him would be true. Right now I think he'd carry any NBA team to the playoffs. Rondo is equally comfortable dishing the ball on the break or in the fast court too, the offense can go at any pace with him.


Because he has elevated his game so much I don't really care about his off-court behavior and immaturity (we have KG around 3 more years we're fine in that area.)

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07-02-2012, 04:03 PM
  #249
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My buddy keeps arguing with me that Russell Westbrook is better than Kevin Durant and is the 2nd best player in the league.

I don't know what to say anymore.
I don't think Durant is THAT much better than Westbrook (or Harden.) I think Westbrook is closer to Durant than Wade is to LeBron.

Durant's outside shooting has regressed a little even if his all around game has improved and he's an annual MVP candidate/top 5 NBA player.

I used to think Westbrook should look to distribute more but after seeing how hard a lot of the buckets he gets are I think he needs to keep trying to score 30 points every game. Thing which people don't realize about OKC is that team relies on their home court far more than any other team and is a team that can be smacked in the mouth and sort of "lose it" and not play well for stretches (why I gave us a shot against them if we got by Miami.) When OKC gets cold its speedy Westbrook who carries them through bad stretches of games.

And Westbrook is pretty tall for how good a ball handler he is and how fast he is if I was building a team from nothing and knew I wouldn't have great players around my PG I'd take him over almost anyone.

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07-02-2012, 05:46 PM
  #250
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I don't think Durant is THAT much better than Westbrook (or Harden.) I think Westbrook is closer to Durant than Wade is to LeBron.

Durant's outside shooting has regressed a little even if his all around game has improved and he's an annual MVP candidate/top 5 NBA player.

I used to think Westbrook should look to distribute more but after seeing how hard a lot of the buckets he gets are I think he needs to keep trying to score 30 points every game. Thing which people don't realize about OKC is that team relies on their home court far more than any other team and is a team that can be smacked in the mouth and sort of "lose it" and not play well for stretches (why I gave us a shot against them if we got by Miami.) When OKC gets cold its speedy Westbrook who carries them through bad stretches of games.

And Westbrook is pretty tall for how good a ball handler he is and how fast he is if I was building a team from nothing and knew I wouldn't have great players around my PG I'd take him over almost anyone.
Stick him at 2 guard where he belongs and he'll never have to worry about passing.

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