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Who's more valuable?

View Poll Results: Which of the following is the most important to the Jets?
Evander Kane 18 19.57%
Zach Bogosian 45 48.91%
Ondrej pavelec 25 27.17%
Others 4 4.35%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-12-2012, 10:29 PM
  #26
garret9
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Although someone may have more potential, I am a strong believer in value is more is better determined in production/accomplishments/etc.
For that reason Kane has greatest value, although I think Bogosian has ability to surpass him.

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06-13-2012, 04:58 AM
  #27
Flair Hay
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Hopefully one day all three will be deemed untouchable.

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06-13-2012, 01:37 PM
  #28
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Pavs!!!

There would be a big hole in the net without him standing there.

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06-13-2012, 06:47 PM
  #29
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BOGO.

He is a perfect fit for Winnipeg.

Kane....to be honest I don't see him being here to long. Bad fit. He wants bright lights and big city, I don't see him fitting in with the blue collar work hard effort the rest of the team is being built around. Kane is talented but I wonder if he's a winner. He has the size and skill to be a game changer but I never really saw the drive. He could be and should be an allstar in the top 20 in the league but I don't see the drive, i see a guy who thinks he's made it already, when really he hasn't done anything.

Pavs? not sure. I worry about the numbers and play down the stretch. I think he'll continue to improve and be an elite level goalie, but he may never get any better than this in which case he's trade bait in my eyes.

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06-14-2012, 05:28 AM
  #30
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I gotta go with Pavelec with this one.

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06-14-2012, 08:24 AM
  #31
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I think that if you took one out of our lineup, the one that would cause the biggest harm is Pavs.

If another team could have any one of them, I think that they would all choose Bogo.

Kane has a ton of value, but I think he is the one with the best chance of being traded.

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06-14-2012, 10:07 AM
  #32
ps241
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found this fun video of Bogosian...........6'3" 220 the boy is a freak!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtuNA...feature=relmfu

Don't know who the other guy is in the clip but it sounds like the crowd was suprised when he hit his 1st jump? I like the person's reaction in the background when Zach hits his first jump (at 28 seconds) and it was kind of my first reaction as well.

another link where he is stop squating and doing reps with over 400 lbs (my estimation), Solid technique and good explosion early.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&fe...&v=_FzmvRzMK0Y


Last edited by ps241: 06-14-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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06-14-2012, 01:05 PM
  #33
3rdManIn
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Is that his brother,Aaron?

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06-14-2012, 03:38 PM
  #34
ps241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdManIn View Post
Is that his brother,Aaron?
yes it appears to be Aaron based on a comment below the video. Cool when you can do a 2 step lead up and jump over (or in this case) onto a 5 foot structure. Aaron ran further to generate his lift but still for a guy that is 5'9" its impressive as well. Good genetics in their family

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06-14-2012, 04:00 PM
  #35
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The question posed is tricky. Value-wise, I'd say Pavelec. If the question is who is worth more, then probably Kane.

Value: Pavelec > Bogosian > Kane
Worth: Kane > Pavelec > Bogosian

Bogosian is great, but he's not as much of a standout as the other two. High-skill power-forwards are rare, and they can fetch a lot. I don't think Kane works within the structure of the Jets organization, so I think long-term he gets traded, especially since I think he has the greatest trade value (worth).

Pavelec is absolutely integral to this team. Pavelec is Winnipeg's version of Pekka Rinne. He will be the glue that helps a heart-and-soul, do-it-by-committee team like Winnipeg become a contender.

Bogosian will be a great asset on the blue line, but he's not able to stay on the ice all game, and his presence will be less impactful as a result. Furthermore, Byfuglien is more of a "beast" on the backend than anyone.

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06-14-2012, 04:22 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indigobuffalo View Post
The question posed is tricky. Value-wise, I'd say Pavelec. If the question is who is worth more, then probably Kane.

Value: Pavelec > Bogosian > Kane
Worth: Kane > Pavelec > Bogosian

Bogosian is great, but he's not as much of a standout as the other two. High-skill power-forwards are rare, and they can fetch a lot. I don't think Kane works within the structure of the Jets organization, so I think long-term he gets traded, especially since I think he has the greatest trade value (worth).

Pavelec is absolutely integral to this team. Pavelec is Winnipeg's version of Pekka Rinne. He will be the glue that helps a heart-and-soul, do-it-by-committee team like Winnipeg become a contender.

Bogosian will be a great asset on the blue line, but he's not able to stay on the ice all game, and his presence will be less impactful as a result. Furthermore, Byfuglien is more of a "beast" on the backend than anyone.


not sure about the bolded part indigobuffalo?

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06-14-2012, 04:32 PM
  #37
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I don't think Pavelec's value/worth is above Kane or Bogosian. He'd be easier to replace than either of those guys. It seems like there's often solid goaltending available either through FA or trade, but rarely young scorers or solid D. We may need another year to see if Bogo's for real, but if he continues to develop, he's an invaluable asset. Even if he stands still he's at least a Top 4 on any team in the league. And Kane's a 20-year-old 30-goal scorer with big upside (and maybe an attitude) - who's a comparable player in the league? Couture? Eberle? Jamie Benn? Taylor Hall? Pavelec for any of those guys straight up...I'd do that in a second.

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06-14-2012, 04:50 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
found this fun video of Bogosian...........6'3" 220 the boy is a freak!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtuNA...feature=relmfu

Don't know who the other guy is in the clip but it sounds like the crowd was suprised when he hit his 1st jump? I like the person's reaction in the background when Zach hits his first jump (at 28 seconds) and it was kind of my first reaction as well.

another link where he is stop squating and doing reps with over 400 lbs (my estimation), Solid technique and good explosion early.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&fe...&v=_FzmvRzMK0Y
I was waiting for them to knock the boxes over in that first video, it looked pretty shaky.

The second one was insane. The bar was even wobbling under the weight and he was jumping with it.

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06-14-2012, 06:07 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
I don't think Pavelec's value/worth is above Kane or Bogosian. He'd be easier to replace than either of those guys. It seems like there's often solid goaltending available either through FA or trade, but rarely young scorers or solid D. We may need another year to see if Bogo's for real, but if he continues to develop, he's an invaluable asset. Even if he stands still he's at least a Top 4 on any team in the league. And Kane's a 20-year-old 30-goal scorer with big upside (and maybe an attitude) - who's a comparable player in the league? Couture? Eberle? Jamie Benn? Taylor Hall? Pavelec for any of those guys straight up...I'd do that in a second.
Truth be told here. I think you are most likely the most correct and not using your own emotions and preferences.

Current Value (and worth): Kane > Bogo > Pavs
But Potential Value (people please stop confusing this): could be anyones game...

Kane has potential to be a top goal scorer in the league... Bogo has potential to be top shutdown in the league while still having a great offensive upside... Pavs has potential for being a top goal tender...
It becomes severely dangerous to confuse potiential with value. So far, Kane is closest to reaching that top level and has higher value and worth... He is needed most on our team regardless of what depth we have and would be needed or desired on another team regardless of what depth they would have. Sure you may not like his personality or think he may leave but he still holds the highest value. Bogo has been improving and maybe even at a faster rate (with a small sample size ) but hasn't reached the same point in his position as Kane has. Pavs is easily the most replacable with current value. He had about leauge average workload (albeit most games he's played in NHL level but lowest SA/gm and SA/min) with bellow league average SV% and GAA... I'm not picking on Pavs; he has potential for eliteness... but he's not there yet.

Anyone could argue that these guys can develop to top of their position because they all have great potential but please... value is value...

EDIT: PS I'm not playing faves.. if I was it be Bogo > Pavs > Kane

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06-15-2012, 09:49 AM
  #40
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Kane, we need to keep scoring goals!

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06-16-2012, 03:02 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Truth be told here. I think you are most likely the most correct and not using your own emotions and preferences.

Current Value (and worth): Kane > Bogo > Pavs
But Potential Value (people please stop confusing this): could be anyones game...

Kane has potential to be a top goal scorer in the league... Bogo has potential to be top shutdown in the league while still having a great offensive upside... Pavs has potential for being a top goal tender...
It becomes severely dangerous to confuse potiential with value. So far, Kane is closest to reaching that top level and has higher value and worth... He is needed most on our team regardless of what depth we have and would be needed or desired on another team regardless of what depth they would have. Sure you may not like his personality or think he may leave but he still holds the highest value. Bogo has been improving and maybe even at a faster rate (with a small sample size ) but hasn't reached the same point in his position as Kane has. Pavs is easily the most replacable with current value. He had about leauge average workload (albeit most games he's played in NHL level but lowest SA/gm and SA/min) with bellow league average SV% and GAA... I'm not picking on Pavs; he has potential for eliteness... but he's not there yet.

Anyone could argue that these guys can develop to top of their position because they all have great potential but please... value is value...

EDIT: PS I'm not playing faves.. if I was it be Bogo > Pavs > Kane
For those who think our poor defence was the cause of Pavs poor performance...
http://mobile.arcticicehockey.com/20...team#105474604

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06-16-2012, 07:05 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
For those who think our poor defence was the cause of Pavs poor performance...
http://mobile.arcticicehockey.com/20...team#105474604
Interesting short piece. I remember Eric Boulton being interviewed on off the record last summer just after we got the team but before July 1st and when they asked him about Pavs he mentioned Pavs has all the talent in the world but needs to mature more. I was pretty suprised a temmate would be so forward with his thoughts. It was a less than glowing recap and I sensed it was about Pavs commitment to conditioning and dedication to improvement. I love Pavs as a goalie and hopefully this catagory takes care of itself as he matures.

My GUESS would be TNSE is all over this and they will manage his ice time better this season and push him harder in the professional development catagory (if he still needs help and encouragement).

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06-16-2012, 01:39 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
For those who think our poor defence was the cause of Pavs poor performance...
http://mobile.arcticicehockey.com/20...team#105474604
That was a real eye opener. Thanks for posting that.

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06-18-2012, 02:27 AM
  #44
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Interesting short piece. I remember Eric Boulton being interviewed on off the record last summer just after we got the team but before July 1st and when they asked him about Pavs he mentioned Pavs has all the talent in the world but needs to mature more. I was pretty suprised a temmate would be so forward with his thoughts. It was a less than glowing recap and I sensed it was about Pavs commitment to conditioning and dedication to improvement. I love Pavs as a goalie and hopefully this catagory takes care of itself as he matures.

My GUESS would be TNSE is all over this and they will manage his ice time better this season and push him harder in the professional development catagory (if he still needs help and encouragement).
It's like my earlier post:
Pavs has immense raw talent and skill but he's behind in his development for a starter... He's much like Burmi. Skill to be elite but questionable due to how he was developed. They have a good goalie coach and apparently they've been working on his position and video reviews so I hope over time he reaches that potential.

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06-18-2012, 04:49 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
It's like my earlier post:
Pavs has immense raw talent and skill but he's behind in his development for a starter... He's much like Burmi. Skill to be elite but questionable due to how he was developed. They have a good goalie coach and apparently they've been working on his position and video reviews so I hope over time he reaches that potential.
Pavelec is 24. I think it is a bit of a stretch to say he is behind in his development. Looking at the young goaltenders under 25 in the league that are considered starters, he has better stats than James Reimer and Steve Mason but not Price and Varlamov. Both Price and Varlamov were 1st round picks and were considered among the best goaltenders available in the draft and could be considered better players. This marks Pavelec in the middle of the pack and I am personally satisfied with his play at his age. Goaltenders usually only break out in the league in their Mid-Late twenties and I think this experience will prove extremely valuable and propel him into the top 10 eventually.


Last edited by Inflict: 06-18-2012 at 04:58 AM.
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06-18-2012, 05:15 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
It's like my earlier post:
Pavs has immense raw talent and skill but he's behind in his development for a starter... He's much like Burmi. Skill to be elite but questionable due to how he was developed. They have a good goalie coach and apparently they've been working on his position and video reviews so I hope over time he reaches that potential.
The development of goaltenders is not at all comparable to the development of skaters, in particular forwards. Pavelec was developed pretty close to how goaltenders are always developed, namely through extended AHL experience. At this point he just needs to become a more consistent player and he'll be a lock for Winnipeg's starter spot for years to come.

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