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Luongo X - The GM Who Loved Me (Mod warning in OP)

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Old
06-08-2012, 02:29 PM
  #76
Skead
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Originally Posted by pspot View Post
IMO other teams will offer sheet him for at least 4.5
Let's assume you're correct;

4.75 Offer Sheet would be compensated with a First, Second, and Third Round pick. These have to be team owned, and not able to be trade a different teams pick in place of. Leaving Anaheim, Calgary, Chicago, Ottawa, Nashville, Florida, Minnesota, New Jersey, San Jose, all unable to offer sheet Schneider.

The rest of the league:

Columbus Blue Jackets -
Detroit Red Wings - Already have their number 1
Nashville Predators - Already have their number 1
St. Louis Blues - Already have their number 1x2
Colorado Avalanche - Already have their number 1
Edmonton Oilers -
Dallas Stars - Already have their number 1
Los Angeles Kings - Already have their number 1
Phoenix Coyotes - Already have their number 1
New York Rangers - Already have their number 1
Philadelphia Flyers - Already have their number 1
Pittsburgh Penguins - Already have their number 1
Boston Bruins - Already have their number 1
Buffalo Sabres - Already have their number 1
Montreal Canadiens - Already have their number 1
Toronto Maple Leafs
Carolina Hurricanes - Already have their number 1
Tampa Bay Lightning
Washington Capitals

Leaving available teams:

Columbus Blue Jackets - Cap Floor team, not sure how likely to throw that much money at a goalie, but potential risk.
Edmonton Oilers - Risk getting him and bombing another season giving a contending team a potential lottery pick? Low risk IMo.
Tampa Bay Lightning - Prefers to draft, versus trade. Potential risk still.
Toronto Maple Leafs - Could throw an offer sheet of 5~ mil, but would have low cap space, and could end up giving a contending team lottery picks.
Washington Capitals - Seem to have a budding goalie that could take over, will need to give time. Low risk.


So yes, 5 other teams in the league COULD offer sheet him but that means they would not be able to trade their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in the year for anything else since they require their OWN picks. Honestly there is a reason why offer sheets are rare, because if Toronto offer sheets schneider, gets him, they now have to do nothing but roster trades, 4-7th round picks, or 2014 draft picks, to beef up at the trade deadline.


Last edited by Skead: 06-08-2012 at 02:45 PM.
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06-08-2012, 02:38 PM
  #77
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...and the great debate goes on and on and on. Having read the ENTIRE collection of threads here (on both boards) AND having sampled the impotent ravings of the CDC crowd (none of whom seem to be able to spell the words "too" and "hysterical") it seems there is something of a consensus amongst Canuck fans of the "Lou first" persuasion. First, Lou is apparently capable of at least four or five years of "elite" level play (this despite his having lost the #1 job on the President's trophy team in the playoffs). I myself have grave doubts about this. Secondly, Schneider has "yet to prove anything" (or words to that effect) based on his number of starts in his career so far (a career that seems to get better and better with time). I feel that this is nonsense; short of kneecapping Lou in the shower I can't see how Cory could have somehow wrangled more icetime with the team to disprove the "inexperienced" tag. Thirdly (and rather strangely) it seems that almost everybody who agrees with the first two points is assuming that Eddie Lack (total NHL games: zero) is a shoo in to be a terrific backup to whomever he gets stuck behind. Note that 2 and 3 seem at odds with each other, at least logically.

As for Lou I think it is obvious that he has no desire to play in Van anymore; why else would he have gone public with his "whatever is best for the team" nonsense mere hours after his team got eliminated (with Schneider having the best goalie numbers in the whole playoffs and Lou having just about the worst). The "list of teams" doesn't help much (kids, forget about teams like Columbus, OK) since it sure seems to me that Lou wants to go where his family is (and they seem reluctant to go wherever he is playing, at least if it is in Canada). Then there's his contract which, even if the "leaked" rumour about him only wanting to play 4 or 5 more years is true, has whomever is stuck with him shelling out about $40 MILLION for a guy who has proven pretty much emphatically that he can't play in big games (the poster who mentioned the Canucks (and Luongo's) 3-6 record in elimination games during the Cup run hit the nail on the head; wonder what his lifetime record is in that regard). Another thing that nobody dares speak of is Lou's terrible October record. Since I absolutely hate Burke I for one hope that he acquires Lou who then proceeds to have his annual bad October which helps the Leafs miss the playoffs by 2 points. No Presidents trophy team in front of him (a team that includes two Art Ross winners and a Selke winner ) will mean that it will be just like the good old days for Lou; fine play a lot of the time but not enough to make the difference that he is expected to make (and was expected to make in Vancouver but didn't, at least when it really counted). I still say he will yield a 2nd rounder and a roster player with a fat(ish) contract and nothing more. Trading Schneider means the Canucks are officially in rebuild mode no matter what anybody says. Both scenarios intrigue me actually, should be a fun next season in Canuck land.


Last edited by Zippgunn: 06-08-2012 at 02:45 PM.
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Old
06-08-2012, 02:40 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Let's assume you're correct;

4.75 Offer Sheet would be compensated with a First, Second, and Third Round pick. These have to be team owned, and not able to be trade a different teams pick in place of.

So leaving Anaheim, Calgary, Chicago, Ottawa, Nashville, Florida, Minnesota, New Jersey, San Jose, all unable to offer sheet Schneider.

So yes, Toronto, and the other 18 teams in the league COULD offer sheet him but that means they would not be able to trade their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in the year for anything else since they require their OWN picks.

Honestly there is a reason why offer sheets are rare, because if Toronto offer sheets schneider, gets him, they now have to do nothing but roster trades, 4-7th round picks, or 2014 draft picks, to beef up at the trade deadline.
Also keep in mind that Schneider has to AGREE to sign an offer sheet. Nothing he or his agent have said so far would indicate that is the case. It is certainly a tough decision for him if he gets a $5 million offer but is going to end up on a non-playoff type team... or get paid $3-3.5 on a contending team full of friends in the locker room that he is a huge part of.

He can also be protected by being taken to arbitration as of July 5th... there there are 5 days that a team has to tender it and Schneider to agree.

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06-08-2012, 02:45 PM
  #79
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Canucks losing Luongo for nothing does not make them a worse team next year. If anything, it free's up a bit of cap space for maybe a guy like Garrison (who said it would be a dream to play here)

So, i'm okay with taking a few futures for Luongo.
I'd love to see him in Toronto. Toronto D's would give up a lot of shots and Luongo is at his best when he's playing a lot of games and facing a TON of shots. A perfect fit imo.

Ashton + Colborne + Schenn for Luongo + late pick? 3rd or 4th rounder?

Cap wise it's not too far off. You keep your best prospect in Kadri, Your prospect pool doesnt really degrade too much because you restock it with your 5th overall and Van's 3rd. Also, you keep your star D man Gardiner.
Canucks get two "almost" blue chip prospects which will come in handy when they start rebuilding 3, 4, 5 years from now.

Leafs make the playoffs on the back of their star goalie...keep all their main pieces intact and they dont give up too much of the future. Canucks gain a lot of depth and help hedge against their inevitable rebuild a few years from now.

This really is a win win.

Cant both fan bases just agree on this.

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06-08-2012, 02:55 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DopitaToDemitra View Post
Canucks losing Luongo for nothing does not make them a worse team next year. If anything, it free's up a bit of cap space for maybe a guy like Garrison (who said it would be a dream to play here)

So, i'm okay with taking a few futures for Luongo.
I'd love to see him in Toronto. Toronto D's would give up a lot of shots and Luongo is at his best when he's playing a lot of games and facing a TON of shots. A perfect fit imo.

Ashton + Colborne + Schenn for Luongo + late pick? 3rd or 4th rounder?

Cap wise it's not too far off. You keep your best prospect in Kadri, Your prospect pool doesnt really degrade too much because you restock it with your 5th overall and Van's 3rd. Also, you keep your star D man Gardiner.
Canucks get two "almost" blue chip prospects which will come in handy when they start rebuilding 3, 4, 5 years from now.

Leafs make the playoffs on the back of their star goalie...keep all their main pieces intact and they dont give up too much of the future. Canucks gain a lot of depth and help hedge against their inevitable rebuild a few years from now.

This really is a win win.

Cant both fan bases just agree on this.
We need to get bigger already so it would be hard to trade that much size in one trade. Change Schenn to the 2013 first.

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06-08-2012, 02:57 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Zippgunn View Post
...and the great debate goes on and on and on. Having read the ENTIRE collection of threads here (on both boards) AND having sampled the impotent ravings of the CDC crowd (none of whom seem to be able to spell the words "too" and "hysterical") it seems there is something of a consensus amongst Canuck fans of the "Lou first" persuasion. First, Lou is apparently capable of at least four or five years of "elite" level play (this despite his having lost the #1 job on the President's trophy team in the playoffs). I myself have grave doubts about this. Secondly, Schneider has "yet to prove anything" (or words to that effect) based on his number of starts in his career so far (a career that seems to get better and better with time). I feel that this is nonsense; short of kneecapping Lou in the shower I can't see how Cory could have somehow wrangled more icetime with the team to disprove the "inexperienced" tag. Thirdly (and rather strangely) it seems that almost everybody who agrees with the first two points is assuming that Eddie Lack (total NHL games: zero) is a shoo in to be a terrific backup to whomever he gets stuck behind. Note that 2 and 3 seem at odds with each other, at least logically.

As for Lou I think it is obvious that he has no desire to play in Van anymore; why else would he have gone public with his "whatever is best for the team" nonsense mere hours after his team got eliminated (with Schneider having the best goalie numbers in the whole playoffs and Lou having just about the worst). The "list of teams" doesn't help much (kids, forget about teams like Columbus, OK) since it sure seems to me that Lou wants to go where his family is (and they seem reluctant to go wherever he is playing, at least if it is in Canada). Then there's his contract which, even if the "leaked" rumour about him only wanting to play 4 or 5 more years is true, has whomever is stuck with him shelling out about $40 MILLION for a guy who has proven pretty much emphatically that he can't play in big games (the poster who mentioned the Canucks (and Luongo's) 3-6 record in elimination games during the Cup run hit the nail on the head; wonder what his lifetime record is in that regard). Another thing that nobody dares speak of is Lou's terrible October record. Since I absolutely hate Burke I for one hope that he acquires Lou who then proceeds to have his annual bad October which helps the Leafs miss the playoffs by 2 points. No Presidents trophy team in front of him (a team that includes two Art Ross winners and a Selke winner ) will mean that it will be just like the good old days for Lou; fine play a lot of the time but not enough to make the difference that he is expected to make (and was expected to make in Vancouver but didn't, at least when it really counted). I still say he will yield a 2nd rounder and a roster player with a fat(ish) contract and nothing more. Trading Schneider means the Canucks are officially in rebuild mode no matter what anybody says. Both scenarios intrigue me actually, should be a fun next season in Canuck land.
Hey Zipp why does your join date say 2011-I know you've been around at least as long as me-as to your post good read but I view Luongo being pulled differently than you.The way the team was playing they knew they weren't going to win so why not find out what Schneids can do--I don't think he lost the job as much as mgmt conceded defeat.If Luongo can't get more than a roster player & a second round pick I'll be shocked.

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06-08-2012, 02:58 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Skead View Post
Tampa Bay Lightning - Prefers to draft, versus trade. Potential risk still.
Per Yzerman, the first move will be to attempt to acquire, via trade, a young, less experienced goalie who is "ready to step up" now. If that goalie is not available by trade, he then moves to the FA route.

Link

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06-08-2012, 03:00 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
We need to get bigger already so it would be hard to trade that much size in one trade. Change Schenn to the 2013 first.
Yeah i'm sure that works too.
It especially works if the Canucks land schultz haha but i get your point

EDIT***

actually..we could put a clause in this deal
If Van gets Schultz, leafs send the 2013 1st instead of Schenn, If. T.O gets Schultz then they send Van Schenn instead of the 2013 1st.
If another team gets Schultz, then T.o Sends Schenn.


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06-08-2012, 03:08 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Per Yzerman, the first move will be to attempt to acquire, via trade, a young, less experienced goalie who is "ready to step up" now. If that goalie is not available by trade, he then moves to the FA route.

Link
Ahh, I just saw the interview where he wanted to draft a broduer type of goalie. So he'd be taking risks for sure, if he offer sheets, and Schneider does accept, and the canucks allow it, then he'd have limited options for Trade Deadline. I just don't see those series of events being common, hence 8 offer sheets being given in 8 years and only 1 signed.

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06-08-2012, 03:13 PM
  #85
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I have a feeling canucks fans are going to be disappointed when the actual luongo trade goes down.

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06-08-2012, 03:13 PM
  #86
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Hey Zipp why does your join date say 2011-I know you've been around at least as long as me-as to your post good read but I view Luongo being pulled differently than you.The way the team was playing they knew they weren't going to win so why not find out what Schneids can do--I don't think he lost the job as much as mgmt conceded defeat.If Luongo can't get more than a roster player & a second round pick I'll be shocked.
Well from my vantage point Lou played OK in this year's playoff but certainly not as great as his cult likes to think. In each of his two games (which we lost by one goal) he gave up an iffy goal which is consistent with his "good but not quite good enough" reputation as a playoff goalie and his numbers were weak. If, as you say, "they knew they weren't going to win" after game 2 of the first round this team has way bigger problems than anybody here realizes. No NHL GM sees Lou in the same light as Lou's fans; to the NHL Lou is a very good goalie who is a bit of a "hothouse flower" that needs coddling and encouragement (not to say outright bribing with things like the captaincy) in order to reach his full potential which to date seems to be getting to within one win of the Stanley Cup and then totally collapsing (for two games in a row no less), as per usual. What's the point of getting a goalie that will "get you into the playoffs" (you mean like he did with Florida when he was having all those great seasons there) if he has demonstrated amply that once there he is ridiculously fragile mentally? For $40 MILLION! Even Burkie isn't that stupid. I think.

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06-08-2012, 03:14 PM
  #87
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What would be that point of this from a Vancouver perspective?


Edit: Damn you are fast Poundcake I would have also accepted "The Spy Who Lu-ved Me" - From Liferleafer.
How about: "The high to glove deke"

The rhymes match but the syntax is a stretch ... Verdict?

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06-08-2012, 03:17 PM
  #88
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We need to get bigger already so it would be hard to trade that much size in one trade. Change Schenn to the 2013 first.
Trading the 2013 1st might not be the best move considering our recently demonstrated capacity for collapse.

How about the 2012 2nd? 35th overall is pretty close to a 1st rounder .

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06-08-2012, 03:18 PM
  #89
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Ahh, I just saw the interview where he wanted to draft a broduer type of goalie.
No problem. There was also a radio interview which was then misquoted in the local paper where they said he said that young goalie wasn't available by trade and they then look to UFA. Only thing was he said IF that young goalie wasn't available. It was corrected later. That little word makes a huge difference! The article saying Yzerman said there wasn't a goalie available via trade got tons of attention but the stories fixing that error didn't.

Quote:
So he'd be taking risks for sure, if he offer sheets, and Schneider does accept, and the canucks allow it, then he'd have limited options for Trade Deadline. I just don't see those series of events being common, hence 8 offer sheets being given in 8 years and only 1 signed.
I have a hard time picturing Yzerman going the offer sheet route. I've met with him (amazing experience) and he seems the type who would think that just isn't kosher.

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06-08-2012, 03:20 PM
  #90
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No Presidents trophy team in front of him (a team that includes two Art Ross winners and a Selke winner ) will mean that it will be just like the good old days for Lou.
Kesler didn't play like a Selke winner and the twins also had some regression. Both goalies masked the obvious goal scoring deficiencies of this team which became glaring in the last few months of the season. This wasn't really a Presidents' Trophy team. They went on a hot streak at the end of the season against borderline playoff or out of contention teams and the Rangers/Blues choked away the #1 spot.

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06-08-2012, 03:26 PM
  #91
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie



In response to what Luongo could fetch them. Nucks fans be mad.
If Gillis is really desperate for cap space, who is he targeting? Losing one of our top assets simply to gain cap space and I don't see any other assets being moved that would fill up that newly acquired cap space. Is he going after Parise, Suter or Semin in FA? I think what will decide whether Luongo gets anything significant will depend on if he's traded before or after July 1st. (if he gets traded at all)

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06-08-2012, 03:27 PM
  #92
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Kesler didn't play like a Selke winner and the twins also had some regression. Both goalies masked the obvious goal scoring deficiencies of this team which became glaring in the last few months of the season. This wasn't really a Presidents' Trophy team. They went on a hot streak at the end of the season against borderline playoff or out of contention teams and the Rangers/Blues choked away the #1 spot.

But despite this obvious goal scoring deficiencies; we still landed 5th over all for goals a game, and 4th for PP, 6th for PK, and 4th over all for team +/-.

Don't get me wrong, Schneider and Luongo had a big part of that but we were very sound defensively, thus helping the goalies out.

The point I will agree with you is Kesler didn't seem himself pretty much the whole year.

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06-08-2012, 03:27 PM
  #93
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Why or how is Schneider going to get 4.66+ million a year? I agree he has the potential to be a star but still needs to prove it. I'd reckon 3-3.5 million for 3-4 years.
It's called an offer sheet ... Maybe you've heard of it? Your choice may be 10mil in tenders, a sub par return on Lu, or a king's ransom for Schnieder ... I know which I'd pick.

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06-08-2012, 03:30 PM
  #94
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Seems Canuck fans are OK with keeping both goalies. But what if (more like when) Luongo pulls his crappy start? Even if another team is having goaltending problems, Luongo's stock at that time won't be any better than now.
Add in the drama of not getting the playing time he wants and that's a cancer waiting to happen. No way he starts the year in Vancouver.

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06-08-2012, 03:33 PM
  #95
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie



In response to what Luongo could fetch them. Nucks fans be mad.
Not surprising, atleast to most non-Canuck fans. We will see what transpires however..

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06-08-2012, 03:37 PM
  #96
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It's called an offer sheet ... Maybe you've heard of it? Your choice may be 10mil in tenders, a sub par return on Lu, or a king's ransom for Schnieder ... I know which I'd pick.
A bit off topic, but I remember only a few months ago people were laughing at Canucks fans and how apparently delusional we were in saying Schneider warrants a hefty return.

Even now, if Vancouver can't trade Luongo I would still hesitate to move Schneider. What we get back from a trade probably won't have as much impact as this kid would have.

Schneider is still improving, and could be a real gem soon

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06-08-2012, 03:38 PM
  #97
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Some Canucks fans (like myself) are pretty realistic about the return. But there are some that really think he's got a high value... It's a polarizing situation all around.

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06-08-2012, 03:38 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by GardinerExpressway View Post
It's called an offer sheet ... Maybe you've heard of it? Your choice may be 10mil in tenders, a sub par return on Lu, or a king's ransom for Schnieder ... I know which I'd pick.
Oi have heard people say that Burke is against offer sheeting to inflate someone's contract.

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06-08-2012, 03:39 PM
  #99
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We need to get bigger already so it would be hard to trade that much size in one trade. Change Schenn to the 2013 first.
I don't see why any Vancouver fan would want Schenn to begin with. We'd happily oblige your request.

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06-08-2012, 03:43 PM
  #100
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Per Yzerman, the first move will be to attempt to acquire, via trade, a young, less experienced goalie who is "ready to step up" now. If that goalie is not available by trade, he then moves to the FA route.

Link
Perhaps he simply meant younger and less experienced than Dwayne Rolosson.

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