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Luongo X - The GM Who Loved Me (Mod warning in OP)
Oi have heard people say that Burke is against offer sheeting to inflate someone's contract.
This really isn't true. Burke used the threat of an offer sheet to motivate the Bs into trading Kessel (true he compensated with more than would have been attributed based on the CBA in order to maintain good managerial relations but that is. Eddie the point ... and p.s. fml).
In this case the offer sheet is expected to be matched and is only rose to drive the cost of Luongo down.
Schnieder would be pretty nuts not fo sign an offer sheet for 5mil and I think Van matches too ... But I could be wrong.
Well...that and an elbow to the head. But i guess only Ryan Miller is allowed to falter due to a concussion.
Not it at all. Reimer is just not all that good. He was mediocre in Red Deer, became a 4th round pick and got over-hyped by the Leafs and their fans. The pedigree is just not there. A blocking style goaltender with average reflexes, suspect glove hand and terrible rebound control. He got over-hyped, handed the keys to the starting role with no support, and it blew up in the organization's face.
4.75 Offer Sheet would be compensated with a First, Second, and Third Round pick. These have to be team owned, and not able to be trade a different teams pick in place of. Leaving Anaheim, Calgary, Chicago, Ottawa, Nashville, Florida, Minnesota, New Jersey, San Jose, all unable to offer sheet Schneider.
The rest of the league:
Columbus Blue Jackets -
Detroit Red Wings - Already have their number 1
Nashville Predators - Already have their number 1
St. Louis Blues - Already have their number 1x2
Colorado Avalanche - Already have their number 1
Edmonton Oilers -
Dallas Stars - Already have their number 1
Los Angeles Kings - Already have their number 1
Phoenix Coyotes - Already have their number 1
New York Rangers - Already have their number 1
Philadelphia Flyers - Already have their number 1
Pittsburgh Penguins - Already have their number 1
Boston Bruins - Already have their number 1
Buffalo Sabres - Already have their number 1
Montreal Canadiens - Already have their number 1
Toronto Maple Leafs
Carolina Hurricanes - Already have their number 1
Tampa Bay Lightning
Washington Capitals
Leaving available teams:
Columbus Blue Jackets - Cap Floor team, not sure how likely to throw that much money at a goalie, but potential risk.
Edmonton Oilers - Risk getting him and bombing another season giving a contending team a potential lottery pick? Low risk IMo.
Tampa Bay Lightning - Prefers to draft, versus trade. Potential risk still.
Toronto Maple Leafs - Could throw an offer sheet of 5~ mil, but would have low cap space, and could end up giving a contending team lottery picks.
Washington Capitals - Seem to have a budding goalie that could take over, will need to give time. Low risk.
So yes, 5 other teams in the league COULD offer sheet him but that means they would not be able to trade their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in the year for anything else since they require their OWN picks. Honestly there is a reason why offer sheets are rare, because if Toronto offer sheets schneider, gets him, they now have to do nothing but roster trades, 4-7th round picks, or 2014 draft picks, to beef up at the trade deadline.
That's not true at all they were middle of the pack in spending #14 in the NHL. They are not a cap floor team at all.
That's not true at all they were middle of the pack in spending #14 in the NHL. They are not a cap floor team at all.
2009 - 2010
24th in league spending 46 Mil
2010 - 2011
18th in league spending 52 Mil
2011 - 2012
14th in league spending 61 Mil
Although they've been spending more, they haven't got to the playoffs since 2009-2010. How long can this trend continue if they're loosing money? They're in a position this upcoming year where they are hovering right around the cap floor (54.3 Million). So unless they make a big splash in free agency they may be hovering around that point.
It's still a risk they throw an offer sheet, but that's just a lot of money to throw at a goalie for a team in that situation.
Forbes lists most/least cost efficient with CBJ topping the least;
Least “Cost-Efficient” NHL Teams (2011-12 Regular Season)
Rank Team Cost/Point Efficiency Ratio
1 Columbus $821,538 133.7%
2 Toronto $812,625 132.3%
3 Buffalo $784,607 127.7%
4 Anaheim $721,319 117.4%
5 Calgary $716,583 116.6%
Well from my vantage point Lou played OK in this year's playoff but certainly not as great as his cult likes to think. In each of his two games (which we lost by one goal) he gave up an iffy goal which is consistent with his "good but not quite good enough" reputation as a playoff goalie and his numbers were weak. If, as you say, "they knew they weren't going to win" after game 2 of the first round this team has way bigger problems than anybody here realizes. No NHL GM sees Lou in the same light as Lou's fans; to the NHL Lou is a very good goalie who is a bit of a "hothouse flower" that needs coddling and encouragement (not to say outright bribing with things like the captaincy) in order to reach his full potential which to date seems to be getting to within one win of the Stanley Cup and then totally collapsing (for two games in a row no less), as per usual. What's the point of getting a goalie that will "get you into the playoffs" (you mean like he did with Florida when he was having all those great seasons there) if he has demonstrated amply that once there he is ridiculously fragile mentally? For $40 MILLION! Even Burkie isn't that stupid. I think.
I hear ya- I am not a luongo fan-but you gloss over one fact that's kinda important- he did carry that team to a SCF & his play in the last 2 games was POOR but the team in front of him didn't play well either.Ithink there are GM's out there that will pay more than you think for Luongo. How much more well that's another thing.
-Anyway good to see you back around here.
PS-I wanted Schneider & Hodgson to play in the SCF because I thought Schneider might have been able to steal a game in Boston.
That's not true at all they were middle of the pack in spending #14 in the NHL. They are not a cap floor team at all.
Columbus may not be a cap floor team but they are a team I'm not sure Schneider would consider signing with...and I'm not sure Columbus would risk the picks involved to sign him. They are a team with so many holes that Schneider alone won't be able to plug them. Also, Howson and Gillis are pretty close...obviously its a business decision but it may (or may not) come into play.
This really isn't true. Burke used the threat of an offer sheet to motivate the Bs into trading Kessel (true he compensated with more than would have been attributed based on the CBA in order to maintain good managerial relations but that is. Eddie the point ... and p.s. fml).
In this case the offer sheet is expected to be matched and is only rose to drive the cost of Luongo down.
Schnieder would be pretty nuts not fo sign an offer sheet for 5mil and I think Van matches too ... But I could be wrong.
Fair enough, and I agree that can would match pretty much any offer sheet
Well from my vantage point Lou played OK in this year's playoff but certainly not as great as his cult likes to think. In each of his two games (which we lost by one goal) he gave up an iffy goal which is consistent with his "good but not quite good enough" reputation as a playoff goalie and his numbers were weak. If, as you say, "they knew they weren't going to win" after game 2 of the first round this team has way bigger problems than anybody here realizes. No NHL GM sees Lou in the same light as Lou's fans; to the NHL Lou is a very good goalie who is a bit of a "hothouse flower" that needs coddling and encouragement (not to say outright bribing with things like the captaincy) in order to reach his full potential which to date seems to be getting to within one win of the Stanley Cup and then totally collapsing (for two games in a row no less), as per usual. What's the point of getting a goalie that will "get you into the playoffs" (you mean like he did with Florida when he was having all those great seasons there) if he has demonstrated amply that once there he is ridiculously fragile mentally? For $40 MILLION! Even Burkie isn't that stupid. I think.
I agree 100% with this post and your previous one. I find it entertaining when some people say he took Vancouver to with in one game of winning the cup. He IMO lost it for them and almost did the same in the Olympics. Letting out a huge rebound that led to the last minute goal by the USA. If it wasn't for both teams in front of him ( Canucks/team Canada) hes nowhere near the level his fans thinks he plays at. It takes a team to win but luongo on a lesser team doesn't mean guaranteed playoffs. Lots of work to do in both Toronto and Tampa in regards to defense. And his days in Florida were a long time ago.
A bit off topic, but I remember only a few months ago people were laughing at Canucks fans and how apparently delusional we were in saying Schneider warrants a hefty return.
Even now, if Vancouver can't trade Luongo I would still hesitate to move Schneider. What we get back from a trade probably won't have as much impact as this kid would have.
Schneider is still improving, and could be a real gem soon
No, I think people were laughing at the suggestion that Schneider warrants a top 5 pick in return - which he doesn't.
No, I think people were laughing at the suggestion that Schneider warrants a top 5 pick in return - which he doesn't.
if you look back in the drafts 3-5 overall picks are not consistently that great. if schneider becomes a top 5 goalie by next year (likely based on his stats) he is easily worth one 3-5 overall pick (unless the draft is crazy deep). vancouver plays more run and gun than all the other teams who had a top 5 goalie so if he is in a defensive system his stats will go up even higher.
No, I think people were laughing at the suggestion that Schneider warrants a top 5 pick in return - which he doesn't.
Schneider is certainly worth the 5th overall pick in this draft. It's just not that strong through the top 5 picks. Maybe in a stronger draft year he's not worth it...
Cory Schneider has the best SV% in hockey since he's cracked the NHL. This guy looks every bit as good as the Quick's, Lundqvist's, Rinne's of the league. Whether he can maintain his elite level play with a larger workload is the only question that remains unanswered.
There's a reason the Canucks are willing to move an elite, consistent, proven netminder in Luongo to keep the guy with only 60 something starts on his resume.
Cory Schneider is the real deal. I would be shocked if he's dealt - even if that means Luongo goes in a 'soft' deal.
if you look back in the drafts 3-5 overall picks are not consistently that great. if schneider becomes a top 5 goalie by next year (likely based on his stats) he is easily worth one 3-5 overall pick (unless the draft is crazy deep). vancouver plays more run and gun than all the other teams who had a top 5 goalie so if he is in a defensive system his stats will go up even higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel
Schneider is certainly worth the 5th overall pick in this draft. It's just not that strong through the top 5 picks. Maybe in a stronger draft year he's not worth it...
Cory Schneider has the best SV% in hockey since he's cracked the NHL. This guy looks every bit as good as the Quick's, Lundqvist's, Rinne's of the league. Whether he can maintain his elite level play with a larger workload is the only question that remains unanswered.
There's a reason the Canucks are willing to move an elite, consistent, proven netminder in Luongo to keep the guy with only 60 something starts on his resume.
Cory Schneider is the real deal. I would be shocked if he's dealt - even if that means Luongo goes in a 'soft' deal.
i think people on hfboards are overrating schneider here, hes had what? 65 game in the nhl? he's a decent goalie with alot of potential but 65 odd games doesnt warrant a top 5 pick, i recall steve mason had 10 shutouts as a rookie with a GA 2.29 and 916 SV% and he played almost twice the number of names than schneider in his rookie season and how are his numbers now?
i think people on hfboards are overrating schneider here, hes had what? 65 game in the nhl? he's a decent goalie with alot of potential but 65 odd games doesnt warrant a top 5 pick, i recall steve mason had 10 shutouts as a rookie with a GA 2.29 and 916 SV% and he played almost twice the number of names than schneider in his rookie season and how are his numbers now?
Okay, just to revive an offer in the last thread before it was locked. We might have something here.
Roberto Luongo
Joe Colborne
Carter Ashton
Matthew Lombardi
2nd pick 2012
Conditional 1st pick 2013 (Leafs must make the playoffs or it defaults to a second)
------------------------------------------------------------------
That is the offer previously discussed, with some consideration to swap Colborne with Kadri. I could live with Connolly being sent back in replace of Lombardi if Toronto wants to shed more cap but this is a good basis. Franson was thrown in originally however we simply have no use for him. A lot of pieces being moved but none expected to jump the Leafs' roster and while Vancouver does not get any immediate help. We put water in our horrendously shallow prospect pool.
Okay, just to revive an offer in the last thread before it was locked. We might have something here.
Roberto Luongo
Joe Colborne
Carter Ashton
Matthew Lombardi
2nd pick 2012
Conditional 1st pick 2013 (Leafs must make the playoffs or it defaults to a second)
------------------------------------------------------------------
That is the offer previously discussed, with some consideration to swap Colborne with Kadri. I could live with Connolly being sent back in replace of Lombardi if Toronto wants to shed more cap but this is a good basis. Franson was thrown in originally however we simply have no use for him. A lot of pieces being moved but none expected to jump the Leafs' roster and while Vancouver does not get any immediate help. We put water in our horrendously shallow prospect pool.
Not at all what I'd want.
Schenn
2012 2nd
That's good enough for me. Schenn needs to be included in the deal though.
i think people on hfboards are overrating schneider here, hes had what? 65 game in the nhl? he's a decent goalie with alot of potential but 65 odd games doesnt warrant a top 5 pick, i recall steve mason had 10 shutouts as a rookie with a GA 2.29 and 916 SV% and he played almost twice the number of names than schneider in his rookie season and how are his numbers now?
If Schneider's save percentage over the last 60-something games drops by the same amount Mason's did after his rookie season, he's still going to be an above average goalie. When you're at a .933 SV% instead of a .916 SV%, there's a lot more leeway to regress and still be good.
That's good enough for me. Schenn needs to be included in the deal though.
Not interested in Schenn at all. Not interested in dealing with the Leafs at all really. If such a thing were to happen though, Bourne's suggestion is more appealing (although the picks/prospects are a little too expensive for the Leafs IMO).
i think people on hfboards are overrating schneider here, hes had what? 65 game in the nhl? he's a decent goalie with alot of potential but 65 odd games doesnt warrant a top 5 pick, i recall steve mason had 10 shutouts as a rookie with a GA 2.29 and 916 SV% and he played almost twice the number of names than schneider in his rookie season and how are his numbers now?
Those who haven't watched Schneider play are the individuals underrating him. Throw your stats sheets and player comparisons away and just watch the kid play.
Okay, just to revive an offer in the last thread before it was locked. We might have something here.
Roberto Luongo
Joe Colborne
Carter Ashton
Matthew Lombardi
2nd pick 2012
Conditional 1st pick 2013 (Leafs must make the playoffs or it defaults to a second)
------------------------------------------------------------------
That is the offer previously discussed, with some consideration to swap Colborne with Kadri. I could live with Connolly being sent back in replace of Lombardi if Toronto wants to shed more cap but this is a good basis. Franson was thrown in originally however we simply have no use for him. A lot of pieces being moved but none expected to jump the Leafs' roster and while Vancouver does not get any immediate help. We put water in our horrendously shallow prospect pool.
I think
that to TML - Luongo + 4th
To VCR - Ashton, Colborne, (2013 1st rnd pick if VCR signs Schultz, or Luke Schenn if any other team including TML signs Schultz)
If you want to add a 2nd pick to VCR if Toronto makes it past the first round..that would be pretty fair imo.
Kreiderman. That's comedy gold!
