I agree with everything else you said, but the bolded part is simply not true.
I have heard both sides. I am not concerned with who is right and who is wrong; the point is that pretty much people shouldn't be using the stuff anyway.
Maybe Bartolo can get his butt on an exercise bike and take some Rosetta Stone while he has time to kill.
Dude has been playing in the U.S. for how long now and still doesn't speak English? Sooo glad Brett Anderson just got back from his Tommy John. Couldn't have been better timing.
I have heard both sides. I am not concerned with who is right and who is wrong; the point is that pretty much people shouldn't be using the stuff anyway.
Fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadmanSJ
Maybe Bartolo can get his butt on an exercise bike and take some Rosetta Stone while he has time to kill.
Dude has been playing in the U.S. for how long now and still doesn't speak English? Sooo glad Brett Anderson just got back from his Tommy John. Couldn't have been better timing.
He DOES speak Engilish, though. Which makes his act with the interpreter annoying.
The reason I mentioned Han-Ram over these two was because someone earlier in this thread posted that it was already known that a west coast player with ties to Miami was the one who got busted.
He DOES speak Engilish, though. Which makes his act with the interpreter annoying.
Not trying to dodge you, to be clear. I could be 100 percent wrong, but I'm not going to lose any sleep at night if I am, know what I mean? Fact is, steroids are bad, mkay? (Imagine that last sentence in Mr. Mackey voice.)
As for the interpreter comments you guys have gone into, reminds me of Manny Ramirez who would selectively speak Spanish at times, like he wanted to avoid certain media.
A few months after becoming commissioner Goodell suspends him for 25% of the season and creates a rule saying anyone who test positive cannot play in a pro bowl. He has gotten even tougher on cheaters since then. I'm not saying he is perfect, but he is way better than Bud. Are you really trying to defend Selig?
Hell no, I hate Selig. I think he's made one good move as Commissioner (three divisions, 1 wild card) and all bad moves after that. As it stands, the NFL policy is 4 games, 8 games, and a year. The MLB policy is already stricter than that. Why is the call for Selig to do more? Furthermore, when both Merriman and Brian Cushing (2010) won the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year award, they had a re-vote. Both were still voted to have won their award, even though they tested positive for steroids. That sure sounds like a strong culture against steroids to me.
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Originally Posted by Wedontneedroads
What you are essentially saying is that because everyone cheats it's ok. I have never been one of those that believes "it's only cheating if you get caught". You absolutely try to gain the best advantage you can against your opponent, but you do it within the rules of the game. That's what they are there for. If everyone ignores the rules, then what the hell is the point?
Cheat
Verb:
Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Ex: If Melky Cabrera has a plate appearance against Bartolo Colon, and they're both attempting to enhance their performances by taking synthetic testosterone, then who has gained the advantage? And what about cortisone shots? Those are steroids too. Why should a guy who is in an insane amount of pain be allowed to play against a guy who is also in pain but hasn't taken a shot? Isn't that cheating? That's an advantage. If its available to everyone, then there's no real advantage present.
As it stands, people in all sports are ignoring the rules. High-sticking is illegal in hockey, but quite often players get away with it. Fouling is illegal in basketball, yet there are flagrant fouls almost every game. Holding happens on every down in football. And, for the purpose of this conversation, baseball players are still using testosterone/other PED's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedontneedroads
If you cheat you are a cheater, and you have to live with yourself for the rest of your life. I personally have more honor than that, and call me naive, but I'd like to believe a good portion of people in this world do too. You only cheat because you aren't good enough to win on your own talent and hard work.
Or you aren't good enough to win on your own talent and hard work because the guys on the other side are cheating. I agree that most players don't cheat, but if the guy(s) across the playing field are doing it, and possibly making it harder to win, which is the point of the game, it might make you think twice.
Millions upon millions of dollars in salary and prize money does a lot to soften the blow of being called a cheater. The difference between success and failure in pro sports is an entire quality of life. The pressure put on those individuals should be understandably unbearable because of the stakes.
Hell no, I hate Selig. I think he's made one good move as Commissioner (three divisions, 1 wild card) and all bad moves after that. As it stands, the NFL policy is 4 games, 8 games, and a year. The MLB policy is already stricter than that. Why is the call for Selig to do more? Furthermore, when both Merriman and Brian Cushing (2010) won the NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year award, they had a re-vote. Both were still voted to have won their award, even though they tested positive for steroids. That sure sounds like a strong culture against steroids to me.
I think you are taking my Selig vs Goodell point out of context. With regards to steroids it would require an agreement with the players association to change the current punishments, and I doubt they would agree to harsher penalties. My only point about Goodell vs Selig is that Goodell is not afraid to put his balls on the line and make a decision like banning a coach of one of the top 5 teams in the league for an entire year for cheating: see Sean Payton. I'm just sick of seeing Selig waffling around on anything that requires a decision.
Quote:
Cheat
Verb:
Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".
Ex: If Melky Cabrera has a plate appearance against Bartolo Colon, and they're both attempting to enhance their performances by taking synthetic testosterone, then who has gained the advantage? And what about cortisone shots? Those are steroids too. Why should a guy who is in an insane amount of pain be allowed to play against a guy who is also in pain but hasn't taken a shot? Isn't that cheating? That's an advantage. If its available to everyone, then there's no real advantage present.
Thanks for the vocab lesson. The only issue with your hypothetical situation is you forgot the 16 other players who aren't taking steroids. They are all being cheated by their teammate and the opposition.
Your argument about Cortisone shots is not relevant because they aren't illegal. If one guy in pain chooses not to take one then that's his own choice. There is no rule telling him he can't. Comparing anabolic steroids and cortisone shots is like comparing apples and marijuana. One is legal, one isn't without a prescription.
Quote:
As it stands, people in all sports are ignoring the rules. High-sticking is illegal in hockey, but quite often players get away with it. Fouling is illegal in basketball, yet there are flagrant fouls almost every game. Holding happens on every down in football. And, for the purpose of this conversation, baseball players are still using testosterone/other PED's.
So you are comparing high-sticking, flagrant fouls, and holding to steroid use? That's a pretty slippery slope.
Steroid use is done off the field behind closed doors with no refs around to watch for it. All they have to monitor for cheating are retrospective tests that most of the time aren't sophisticated to catch cheating. With in game penalties there are officials trying to keep things legit, and players are usually penalized for cheating. When it comes to steroid use I can only venture a guess as to what percentage of infractions go unpunished. I can however guarantee it's a lot higher than the number of in game penalties that go unpunished or uncalled.
Quote:
Or you aren't good enough to win on your own talent and hard work because the guys on the other side are cheating. I agree that most players don't cheat, but if the guy(s) across the playing field are doing it, and possibly making it harder to win, which is the point of the game, it might make you think twice.
Millions upon millions of dollars in salary and prize money does a lot to soften the blow of being called a cheater. The difference between success and failure in pro sports is an entire quality of life. The pressure put on those individuals should be understandably unbearable because of the stakes.
If you make the minimum in the MLB it's about $500k. The average wage for someone working in the US is a little under 50k. I'm pretty sure no matter what level of success you reach in the MLB you will be pretty much set for life unless you are a financial moron. Saying money is a justification for taking steroids is a complete cop out. Money does not buy happiness or satisfaction, and neither do steroids.
Honestly, my only point in all of this was that Selig is a moron, and that even after his big steroid rule back in 2006 many of the best players in the game still take steroids. Somehow it seems to me like you are trying to justify the use of steroids, and I don't think that's what you are trying to do. At least I hope not.
What would you guys think about signing Zito to a cheap deal after his contract is up? He's still a more than capable #5 who eats up innings and almost never gets hurt, plus he has a pitching style that will probably keep him effective into his 40s.
What would you guys think about signing Zito to a cheap deal after his contract is up? He's still a more than capable #5 who eats up innings and almost never gets hurt, plus he has a pitching style that will probably keep him effective into his 40s.
Assuming the Giants are lucky enough to make the postseason, I'd like to see what he does in whatever role he gets tossed into before making such a decision. But assuming he was awesome in the postseason (even only in a spot start/middle relief situation), I would want to re-sign him, provided his ego could handle taking the drastic paycut.
Wouldn't we be talking about a sub-$5M/per deal with Zito?
__________________
2011: Outcoached by Vigneault. 2012: Outcoached all season and postseason by Hitch.
2013: Outcoached by most coaches in the NHL. Who's left? 12 year olds on Xbox Live? SACK T-MAC NOW
What would you guys think about signing Zito to a cheap deal after his contract is up? He's still a more than capable #5 who eats up innings and almost never gets hurt, plus he has a pitching style that will probably keep him effective into his 40s.
Assuming the Giants are lucky enough to make the postseason, I'd like to see what he does in whatever role he gets tossed into before making such a decision. But assuming he was awesome in the postseason (even only in a spot start/middle relief situation), I would want to re-sign him, provided his ego could handle taking the drastic paycut.
Wouldn't we be talking about a sub-$5M/per deal with Zito?
Yeah I was thinking somewhere in the $2-$3 mil dollar range. As long as he doesn't kill it in his contract year or let his pride get in the way like you mentioned, I think that's doable.
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Originally Posted by HOOCH2173
I still cringe at anyone wanting Zito!
This would be another reason I could see management just letting him go. They might just want to distance themselves from the stigma of his current contract as soon as possible.
Edit: And now the Doyers put in a claim for Adrian Gonzalez! What a bunch of desperate losers.
The reason I mentioned Han-Ram over these two was because someone earlier in this thread posted that it was already known that a west coast player with ties to Miami was the one who got busted.
Yeah that was my initial post on what was upcoming on Monday. What Jim Duquestte said on XM was that MLB has tracked the distribution of the drugs to Miami. So I can see how you would think Han-Ram might be involved. And yet again, Victor Conte was right. He predicted this. He said more would fail tests and be suspended and even said it specifically to this particular synthetic testosterone.
It's their right to put in as many claims as they want. Gonzalez has a horrid contract and is having a down year for his standards, but he on his worst day is still much better than James Loney.
Apparently, the Sox and Dodgers are talking about a package for Adrian Gonzalez that includes De La Rosa, Loney, De Jesus, and Jerry Sands.
Like I posted on the baseball board, that's it? The Dodgers would be swallowing a lot of money, but they wouldn't be giving up much for three former all-stars.
