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Offseason moves part 2

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Old
06-15-2012, 12:11 PM
  #351
The Gnome
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I don't understand why Suter would not entertain a city like Calgary. Seems like the type of city he would be looking for. I guess he wants to stay in the states. Plus Calgary is a pretty big hockey city, he might not like that.

It'd be unreal if Feaster could land him.

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06-15-2012, 01:15 PM
  #352
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When you look at this years UFA list for defensemen there is a lot of top 6 quality. Now I don't want to trad Gio, but this might be a good time to get a legit top 6 centre.

My favourite target is still Staal, assuming he would even want to play here.

To PIT:

Gio
CGY 2012 1st
Backlund

To CGY:

Staal
PIT 2012 1st

We immediately have a great, young, number 2 centre who can easily play top line minutes.

Tanguay-Staal-Iginla

That is a great top line IMO, and can play against some of the toughest competition any team can dish out. Staal is becoming a premier defensive centre. You put his large frame and tenacious forcheck with players like Tangs (playmaker) and Iggy (sniper) you have the potential for a great combo.

Not only is Staal a great defensive centre put his offensive abilities are really starting to come out. This gives the flames a 1B or great 2nd line centre who is still young. It also helps us immensely in the short term up front. Assuming we can land 2 quality dmen in free agency our backend could hold up, while our front end is improved now and for years to come.

It is a large package. But management clearly wants to win now. We need to take risks if keeping Iggy is the mandate. Staal fits Feaster's description perfectly when he talks about what this team is lacking.

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06-15-2012, 01:28 PM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
I don't understand why Suter would not entertain a city like Calgary. Seems like the type of city he would be looking for. I guess he wants to stay in the states. Plus Calgary is a pretty big hockey city, he might not like that.

It'd be unreal if Feaster could land him.
I really wouldn't be surprised if feaster comes out of no where like he did with BR last year and offers the biggest deal Suter gets.

Suter - Bouwmeester would work. Would work very well.

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06-15-2012, 01:36 PM
  #354
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furthermore on the Gio for Staal idea:

Try trading Jokinen's rights to WSH for Wideman's rights.

If Wideman signs, then I'd really push hard for Staal. chances are we can get one other decent dman to play #4-#6.

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06-15-2012, 01:56 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Yeah, those ankle injuries are nothing. He should have just walked it off instead of missing like 15 games or whatever it was. What a small cat.
Ummmm.... That was 09/10. Not 10/11. And it was 12 games. In 10/11 he missed 1 game with an upper body injury. He was healthy scratched for 32 games in 10/11.

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06-15-2012, 01:57 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
WOW really he was saying on another team he would be a #5 gee I didn't see that. On vancouver he is as good or better than Salo at this point so he would be #4. Pittsbugh Michalek didn't have a great season so I would say he is about as good as their #4. And St.louis and New York aren't good teams when it comes to defense they are the best along with LA. So in the entire nhl he is a #5 on 3-5 teams man he must be a #5. He is a top 4 defenseman on most teams.

In Buffalo he had injuries but when he was in the lineup averaged ~ top 4 minutes like 2009-2010 he averaged 20 minutes a night which was 3rd best and just behind #2. In his last year with Buffalo he was their #2 defenseman in the playoffs because he was trusted to play a strong defensive game.

When people say he wouldn't be a top 4 defenseman on good teams they don't mean the best defensive teams in the league the mean good but not great teams.
I very much disagree that Michalek is not a better defenseman than Butler. Very much so. I think Salo is better when healthy, but he is made of glass.

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06-15-2012, 05:29 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gnome View Post
When you look at this years UFA list for defensemen there is a lot of top 6 quality. Now I don't want to trad Gio, but this might be a good time to get a legit top 6 centre.

My favourite target is still Staal, assuming he would even want to play here.

To PIT:

Gio
CGY 2012 1st
Backlund

To CGY:

Staal
PIT 2012 1st

We immediately have a great, young, number 2 centre who can easily play top line minutes.

Tanguay-Staal-Iginla

That is a great top line IMO, and can play against some of the toughest competition any team can dish out. Staal is becoming a premier defensive centre. You put his large frame and tenacious forcheck with players like Tangs (playmaker) and Iggy (sniper) you have the potential for a great combo.

Not only is Staal a great defensive centre put his offensive abilities are really starting to come out. This gives the flames a 1B or great 2nd line centre who is still young. It also helps us immensely in the short term up front. Assuming we can land 2 quality dmen in free agency our backend could hold up, while our front end is improved now and for years to come.

It is a large package. But management clearly wants to win now. We need to take risks if keeping Iggy is the mandate. Staal fits Feaster's description perfectly when he talks about what this team is lacking.
No way in a million years would Pits accept this. Looking at this trade proposal, you just KNOW it was done from a Flames fan pov.
Moving from PIts 1st to Calgary 1st is equal to the difference between Backlund and Staal?
you're killing me

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06-15-2012, 05:34 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by DopitaToDemitra View Post
No way in a million years would Pits accept this. Looking at this trade proposal, you just KNOW it was done from a Flames fan pov.
Moving from PIts 1st to Calgary 1st is equal to the difference between Backlund and Staal?
you're killing me
You really don't know much about Giordano do you? He is a warrior, the type of player you need against the Flyers and Rangers.

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06-15-2012, 05:49 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by DopitaToDemitra View Post
No way in a million years would Pits accept this. Looking at this trade proposal, you just KNOW it was done from a Flames fan pov.
Moving from PIts 1st to Calgary 1st is equal to the difference between Backlund and Staal?
you're killing me
don't you have some windows to break or a fire to start?

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06-15-2012, 05:55 PM
  #360
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Was on the Dallas board wondering what they would want for Fistric. He could provide a much needed physical presence on our back end. They really aren't opposed to something around Stajan. How does everyone else feel about this?

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06-15-2012, 06:14 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Body Checker View Post
You really don't know much about Giordano do you? He is a warrior, the type of player you need against the Flyers and Rangers.
Don't think he saw Gio in there, first glance over I missed that Gio was part of the deal too.

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06-15-2012, 06:14 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Ummmm.... That was 09/10. Not 10/11. And it was 12 games. In 10/11 he missed 1 game with an upper body injury. He was healthy scratched for 32 games in 10/11.
Dammit. Who the **** am I thinking of then?

Whatever. He's easily a solid #4 guy now.

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06-15-2012, 06:30 PM
  #363
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Don't think he saw Gio in there, first glance over I missed that Gio was part of the deal too.
Maybe he is getting Gio, mixed up with a Geo??

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06-15-2012, 07:24 PM
  #364
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Jersey used their best players to PK, and look how deadly that thing was, both in ability to kill the penalties and the ability to make other teams pay.

Jackman should be the 13th forward... When we play teams like Detroit, what's the point of having a goon on the ice outside of letting them eat up our fourth line, and be forced into rolling 3. I really like the Jersey method they used this year, 3 lines that can burn you and the fourth line having the ability to play against top lines, eat up time and forecheck like nobodies business.

I'm still so not sold on Stajan, while I don't think he was ever really given a fair chance in Calgary, outside of the time he spent playing with the top line (and performing well) he has really been a ton of dead weight on the team. I like his faceoffs, he's a relatively responsible player, but with that price tag... you'd want top 6 ability from him... If there's a team out there that would be crazy enough to do this, I really want a second round pick this draft.
Yes they use their top players as pkers but are top players aren't use to playing the pk and their offensive game could suffer.

Their top 6 pkers
Zubrus
Parise UFA
Henrique
Elias
Zajac
Kovy

Our top 6 pkers
GlenX
Moss Ufa
Tko Ufa
Stemp Ufa
Tangs
Comeau Rfa

With many of our top 6 spots taken we need to bring in bottom six players than can pk (which is why I want Comeau over Lat)

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06-15-2012, 07:27 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
Was on the Dallas board wondering what they would want for Fistric. He could provide a much needed physical presence on our back end. They really aren't opposed to something around Stajan. How does everyone else feel about this?
We would need a center coming back as it is my worst nightmare that we end up with

Cammy
Backlund
Cervenka
Horak

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06-15-2012, 07:29 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
I very much disagree that Michalek is not a better defenseman than Butler. Very much so. I think Salo is better when healthy, but he is made of glass.
That is fine it is your opinion but he is a top 4 guy on more than half the teams in the nhl so I would call him a top 4 defenseman. I disagree on Salo as his defensive game is not what it was 2-3 years ago even through he still has a hell of a shot.

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06-15-2012, 08:04 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
We would need a center coming back as it is my worst nightmare that we end up with

Cammy
Backlund
Cervenka
Horak
We could sign a 3rd line centerman

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06-15-2012, 08:13 PM
  #368
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We could sign a 3rd line centerman
Would have to sign one first as I don't want to risk that suckfest.

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06-15-2012, 11:21 PM
  #369
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Maybe he is getting Gio, mixed up with a Geo??
Maybe this as well?
http://www.samsung.com/galaxyace/gio_overview.html

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06-15-2012, 11:25 PM
  #370
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The Riberio trade that MR proposed intrigued me greatly. I would take that deal. I made my own however for fun too.

Flames trade: Stajan + Giodano
Stars trade: Riberio (5.00) + A. Chiasson
Flames sign: Carle, Shultz, Jokinen, Moore, Comeau

Tangs – Jokinen – Iginla
Cammy – Riberio – Glenny
Baertschi – Backlund – Cervenka
Aliu/Bouma – Moore/Jones – Comeau/Jackman

Bouwmeester – Butler
Carle – Shultz
Brodie – Babchuck
Smith

Not much difference. I would trust Backlund at centre over Cervenka.

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06-15-2012, 11:48 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
The Riberio trade that MR proposed intrigued me greatly. I would take that deal. I made my own however for fun too.

Flames trade: Stajan + Giodano
Stars trade: Riberio (5.00) + A. Chiasson
Flames sign: Carle, Shultz, Jokinen, Moore, Comeau

Tangs – Jokinen – Iginla
Cammy – Riberio – Glenny
Baertschi – Backlund – Cervenka
Aliu/Bouma – Moore/Jones – Comeau/Jackman

Bouwmeester – Butler
Carle – Shultz
Brodie – Babchuck
Smith

Not much difference. I would trust Backlund at centre over Cervenka.
Alex Chiasson is one of out most untouchable winger prospects (along with R. Smith). We're definitely not trading him especially since he has a great chance of making the NHL roster after training camp.

I was just at the trade boards and it seems a couple Flames fans agreed to some combination of Ribiero for Backlund + 3rd. I was wondering what Flames fans thought of this deal?

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06-16-2012, 12:18 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by Ogi1Kenobi View Post
Alex Chiasson is one of out most untouchable winger prospects (along with R. Smith). We're definitely not trading him especially since he has a great chance of making the NHL roster after training camp.

I was just at the trade boards and it seems a couple Flames fans agreed to some combination of Ribiero for Backlund + 3rd. I was wondering what Flames fans thought of this deal?
Oh really? I didn't know he was so highly touted. I know in 2010 he was, but haven't heard much since. You wonder if they can still play hockey after their degrees.

I know I wouldn't take that trade. We can't afford to give away prospects or picks at this time.

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06-16-2012, 07:53 AM
  #373
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Sign - B. Jackman
Trade - Jokinen rights for Wideman rights

Gio / Jackman
Butler / Wideman
Brodie / Smith
Babchuk

Trade JBo + Backlund + Comeau rights + 1st Rd Pick to Anaheim for Getzlaf.

Tangs / Getz / Iggy
GlenX / Cammy / Aliu
Baertschi / Stajan / Cervenka
Bouma / Horak / Jackman

2nd line RW can be altered but Aliu played well with Cammy in those few games. I say give him a chance. 3rd line can be very dangerous. 1st line is perfect.

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06-16-2012, 10:32 AM
  #374
Johnny Hoxville
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I've been meaning to address this post all week, I've just been really busy and haven't had the time.

Quote:
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Why Carle played 23+ minutes had 38 points was semi physical and blocked more shots than any flame best of all he is only 25.
Carle is actually 27, but that doesn't matter to me he would still be signed for the prime years of his contract. But him and Gio actually had the same amount of shots blocked considering their GP.

Carle had 164 blocked shots in 82 GP (Average of 2 Shots PG)
Gio had 125 shots blocked in in 61 GP (Average of 2.08 Shots PG)

Quote:
Ideally Carle is a 4-4.5 million dollar player but he is a ufa in order to make him come here 5-5.5 is needed and we don't have to give up assets for him. Unlike Stajan it is hard to misuse a defensive defenseman.
Most Philly fans agree that teams will eventually be disappointed with Carle if they pay over 4.25 for him. Don't get me wrong, I really like Carle but my problem would be people's expectations of him if we signed him say to a 4 year 5.5 million per type of deal. Carle is a really good all around dman who as you mentioned is quite sound in his own end, but he is not considered a top offensive dman. Last year on an offensively stacked Flyers team, he managed a respectable 38 points, the year before he got 40. He managed 42 pts several years back and on a really high scoring Sharks team. Unless the Flames would be top 10 in league scoring, I think you would see Carle around the 30-35 point mark which is not great for a dman that would have that type of contract.

If we signed Carle to a deal where he has a 5.5 million dollar cap hit, he would be the 5th highest paid player on our team. The expectations of him in this city would be immense. Given that Gio will likely return to being a 40+pt dman next season if healthy and I think he is a better overall dman than Carle, I don't believe it would be a good decision to pay a guy like him roughly 1.5 million more than Gio. My main point is Carle's value is much higher than it should be right now because he is arguably the 2nd best FA dman on the market this year which will inflate his value.

Quote:
Ballard is lost defensively and has no confidence and please don't use the he played with Jbo argument they were not linemates.
After giving this some more thought, I am not crazy on acquiring Ballard but would still entertain it depending on what happens in FA. I would not give up anything significant to acquire him either. I think the Canucks are in a situation where they like his contract off their books. The most I would offer would be a deal centered around Babchuk going back as the main piece with something else minor.

Again, I actually really like Carle as a player and would love him on the Flames. I just don't know if it would be worth it to sign him given how much it will cost to land him. You are right though, we would have a fairly young top 4 dman signed throughout the prime years of his contract which I really like. I can just foresee the potential for that signing to go south.

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06-16-2012, 10:53 AM
  #375
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I've been meaning to address this post all week, I've just been really busy and haven't had the time.



Carle is actually 27, but that doesn't matter to me he would still be signed for the prime years of his contract. But him and Gio actually had the same amount of shots blocked considering their GP.

Carle had 164 blocked shots in 82 GP (Average of 2 Shots PG)
Gio had 125 shots blocked in in 61 GP (Average of 2.08 Shots PG)



Most Philly fans agree that teams will eventually be disappointed with Carle if they pay over 4.25 for him. Don't get me wrong, I really like Carle but my problem would be people's expectations of him if we signed him say to a 4 year 5.5 million per type of deal. Carle is a really good all around dman who as you mentioned is quite sound in his own end, but he is not considered a top offensive dman. Last year on an offensively stacked Flyers team, he managed a respectable 38 points, the year before he got 40. He managed 42 pts several years back and on a really high scoring Sharks team. Unless the Flames would be top 10 in league scoring, I think you would see Carle around the 30-35 point mark which is not great for a dman that would have that type of contract.

If we signed Carle to a deal where he has a 5.5 million dollar cap hit, he would be the 5th highest paid player on our team. The expectations of him in this city would be immense. Given that Gio will likely return to being a 40+pt dman next season if healthy and I think he is a better overall dman than Carle, I don't believe it would be a good decision to pay a guy like him roughly 1.5 million more than Gio. My main point is Carle's value is much higher than it should be right now because he is arguably the 2nd best FA dman on the market this year which will inflate his value.



After giving this some more thought, I am not crazy on acquiring Ballard but would still entertain it depending on what happens in FA. I would not give up anything significant to acquire him either. I think the Canucks are in a situation where they like his contract off their books. The most I would offer would be a deal centered around Babchuk going back as the main piece with something else minor.

Again, I actually really like Carle as a player and would love him on the Flames. I just don't know if it would be worth it to sign him given how much it will cost to land him. You are right though, we would have a fairly young top 4 dman signed throughout the prime years of his contract which I really like. I can just foresee the potential for that signing to go south.
Yea I did some more research on Carle and I would offer 5 year 25 million I feel like that is overpaying but that is what we must do in-order to get one of the two top 4 defenseman that are in their prime in free agency.

Vancouver fans (obviously fans =/= management) believe he is still worth a late first rounder or could be used in a package to get a good defender so I doubt they just want him off the books which is why I said pass. The only thing I would consider is Babchuck for him but even then its pretty risky to take on that much cap hit.

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