2nd line RW can be altered but Aliu played well with Cammy in those few games. I say give him a chance. 3rd line can be very dangerous. 1st line is perfect.
Anaheim has an internal budget I don't know if they would like that trade. Maybe ask them?
Yea I did some more research on Carle and I would offer 5 year 25 million I feel like that is overpaying but that is what we must do in-order to get one of the two top 4 defenseman that are in their prime in free agency.
Vancouver fans (obviously fans =/= management) believe he is still worth a late first rounder or could be used in a package to get a good defender so I doubt they just want him off the books which is why I said pass. The only thing I would consider is Babchuck for him but even then its pretty risky to take on that much cap hit.
Yeah at the end of the day and I'm Feaster, I would offer him that deal to considering the other bids from GM's. Paying him just a little under a million more than Gio isn't a 'huge' deal and I think the players will appreciate managements efforts to better the team. Carle would be a solid addition to our backend and would really help to solidify things back there. I would need to walk away though if it goes up to 5.5 million for his services.
On another note, I was listening to the fan yesterday and from what those guys were saying it sounds like Jokinen probably won't be back. In which case, we need to keep Stajan. If he gets traded without a centre coming back we are totally screwed.
Steinberg was just saying from the people he's talked to he believes that Jokinen is looking for a Tanguay type of deal that would make him 38 at the end of the term. He thinks the Flames would probably be interested to have him back but at no more than 2 years. Again, these were his thoughts based on people he's talked to.
Pretty much on par with what we've been discussing here.
Yeah at the end of the day and I'm Feaster, I would offer him that deal to considering the other bids from GM's. Paying him just a little under a million more than Gio isn't a 'huge' deal and I think the players will appreciate managements efforts to better the team. Carle would be a solid addition to our backend and would really help to solidify things back there. I would need to walk away though if it goes up to 5.5 million for his services.
On another note, I was listening to the fan yesterday and from what those guys were saying it sounds like Jokinen probably won't be back. In which case, we need to keep Stajan. If he gets traded without a centre coming back we are totally screwed.
Steinberg was just saying from the people he's talked to he believes that Jokinen is looking for a Tanguay type of deal that would make him 38 at the end of the term. He thinks the Flames would probably be interested to have him back but at no more than 2 years. Again, these were his thoughts based on people he's talked to.
Pretty much on par with what we've been discussing here.
If thats true that really sucks but it would be kinda funny that most of us guessed what was happening
If thats true that really sucks but it would be kinda funny that most of us guessed what was happening
That's just what I was thinking to.
Most of us would accept a 2 year deal but realize he is looking for something long term and what will probably be his last contract. Personally I could live with a Tanguay type deal. But it sounds like the Flames are to concerned with the fact that players at his age can rapidly decline suddenly and they feel that giving a term of that type is to risky given Tangs is already signed to a similar deal, granted he is 2 years younger.
Most of us would accept a 2 year deal but realize he is looking for something long term and what will probably be his last contract. Personally I could live with a Tanguay type deal. But it sounds like the Flames are to concerned with the fact that players at his age can rapidly decline suddenly and they feel that giving a term of that type is to risky given Tangs is already signed to a similar deal, granted he is 2 years younger.
For me there is a big difference between Tangs and Jokinen. Outside of Tangs one season in Tampa where he was greatly misused he has been extremely consistent 60-70 point player so I am not worried about him slowing down for a while also he is very good defensively and can pk so even in his last year or two if the offense disappears he can still be a third liner that is only slightly overpaid. But Jokinen has had extreme highs and lows and I don't think he would make a good third liner as he can't pk and his defensive game isn't on the same level (although he has been trying). I would be willing to do a 4 year 16 million contract at the most after that I would kindly tell him to GTFO
For me there is a big difference between Tangs and Jokinen. Outside of Tangs one season in Tampa where he was greatly misused he has been extremely consistent 60-70 point player so I am not worried about him slowing down for a while also he is very good defensively and can pk so even in his last year or two if the offense disappears he can still be a third liner that is only slightly overpaid. But Jokinen has had extreme highs and lows and I don't think he would make a good third liner as he can't pk and his defensive game isn't on the same level (although he has been trying). I would be willing to do a 4 year 16 million contract at the most after that I would kindly tell him to GTFO
I think Jokinen is suited just fine to be a #3 center. His defensive game is steadily improving and he can PK, Sutter just never used him that way, he was a good PKer with the Panthers.
I would even say I would prefer Olli until he was 33 before Tanguay. Tangs has had some injuries and has never been one to play hurt (not a knock, everyone has different tolerance levels)
I also think Olli has been more consistent year to year than he gets credit for.
I think Jokinen is suited just fine to be a #3 center. His defensive game is steadily improving and he can PK, Sutter just never used him that way, he was a good PKer with the Panthers.
I would even say I would prefer Olli until he was 33 before Tanguay. Tangs has had some injuries and has never been one to play hurt (not a knock, everyone has different tolerance levels)
I also think Olli has been more consistent year to year than he gets credit for.
Both players started at 19 (Jokinen had 8 games at 18)
Tanguay career ppg .833
Jokinen career ppg .66
Years of 50+ points (or on pace for)
Tanguay 11 (every year but tampa bay)
Jokinen 10 (missed several years)
Years of 60+ points (or on pace for)
Tanguay 9
Jokinen 6
Years of 80+ points (or on pace for)
Tanguay 1
Jokinen 2
Of Jokinen's 683 career points a 180 of them or 28.3% came in his best two years
Of Tanguay's 735 career points a 160 of them or 21.8% came in his best two years
It is clear to me that Tanguay is more consistent of a player.
The last time Olli Jokinen played more than 100 min on the pk was 06-07 before that it was 03-04.
The last time Tanguay played more than 100 min on the pk was 10-11 and was on pace for it again this year. Given that is has been almost a decade since Jokinen was a top pker in back to back seasons I would feel much better with Tanguay on the pk than Jokinen.
Also usually third lines are checking lines I don't feel that a checking line with a center who isn't great at faceoffs is a good idea.
Both players started at 19 (Jokinen had 8 games at 18)
Tanguay career ppg .833
Jokinen career ppg .66
Years of 50+ points (or on pace for)
Tanguay 11 (every year but tampa bay)
Jokinen 10 (missed several years)
Years of 60+ points (or on pace for)
Tanguay 9
Jokinen 6
Years of 80+ points (or on pace for)
Tanguay 1
Jokinen 2
Of Jokinen's 683 career points a 180 of them or 28.3% came in his best two years
Of Tanguay's 735 career points a 160 of them or 21.8% came in his best two years
It is clear to me that Tanguay is more consistent of a player.
The last time Olli Jokinen played more than 100 min on the pk was 06-07 before that it was 03-04.
The last time Tanguay played more than 100 min on the pk was 10-11 and was on pace for it again this year. Given that is has been almost a decade since Jokinen was a top pker in back to back seasons I would feel much better with Tanguay on the pk than Jokinen.
Also usually third lines are checking lines I don't feel that a checking line with a center who isn't great at faceoffs is a good idea.
you can't look at career totals and decide who is more consistent, that is stupid, especially when a guy like Jokinen was a late bloomer at the NHL level.
Since Jokinen first hit 50 points he has yet to fall beneath that plateau. He has only been below 20 goals twice in that time (not shocking both came under Brent Sutter).
Jokinen is also consistently healthy, Tanguay not so much.
Personally I think boht are good choices to keep around long term, I would just prefer Jokinen a little more than Tanguay.
you can't look at career totals and decide who is more consistent, that is stupid, especially when a guy like Jokinen was a late bloomer at the NHL level.
Since Jokinen first hit 50 points he has yet to fall beneath that plateau. He has only been below 20 goals twice in that time (not shocking both came under Brent Sutter).
Jokinen is also consistently healthy, Tanguay not so much.
Personally I think boht are good choices to keep around long term, I would just prefer Jokinen a little more than Tanguay.
I was saying that Tanguay as been a consistent 50+ point player saying I feel more comfortable with over Jokinen because of that.
And of course I can look at career totals when I am saying one has a more consistent career.
I will conced that Tanguay is injury prone but when in the lineup he is more effective than Jokinen.
Both players started at 19 (Jokinen had 8 games at 18)
Tanguay career ppg .833
Jokinen career ppg .66
Years of 50+ points (or on pace for)
Tanguay 11 (every year but tampa bay)
Jokinen 10 (missed several years)
Years of 60+ points (or on pace for)
Tanguay 9
Jokinen 6
Years of 80+ points (or on pace for)
Tanguay 1
Jokinen 2
Of Jokinen's 683 career points a 180 of them or 28.3% came in his best two years
Of Tanguay's 735 career points a 160 of them or 21.8% came in his best two years
It is clear to me that Tanguay is more consistent of a player.
The last time Olli Jokinen played more than 100 min on the pk was 06-07 before that it was 03-04.
The last time Tanguay played more than 100 min on the pk was 10-11 and was on pace for it again this year. Given that is has been almost a decade since Jokinen was a top pker in back to back seasons I would feel much better with Tanguay on the pk than Jokinen.
Also usually third lines are checking lines I don't feel that a checking line with a center who isn't great at faceoffs is a good idea.
Tangs also played on some stacked teams. In Florida, Jokinen had to play against top lines, whereas Tangs didn't necessarily have to.
Yeah at the end of the day and I'm Feaster, I would offer him that deal to considering the other bids from GM's. Paying him just a little under a million more than Gio isn't a 'huge' deal and I think the players will appreciate managements efforts to better the team. Carle would be a solid addition to our backend and would really help to solidify things back there. I would need to walk away though if it goes up to 5.5 million for his services.
On another note, I was listening to the fan yesterday and from what those guys were saying it sounds like Jokinen probably won't be back. In which case, we need to keep Stajan. If he gets traded without a centre coming back we are totally screwed.
Steinberg was just saying from the people he's talked to he believes that Jokinen is looking for a Tanguay type of deal that would make him 38 at the end of the term. He thinks the Flames would probably be interested to have him back but at no more than 2 years. Again, these were his thoughts based on people he's talked to.
Pretty much on par with what we've been discussing here.
I would take that move if Jokinen was only given a limited NTC at the very least. Worst case scenerio Jokinen could be traded 3.5 million. Jokinen under an offensive, "entertaining" coach like Hartely will result in explosive numbers for a lot of our forwards and defensemen, but Kipper will likely see a plummet in numbers.
Tanguay has 413 points in 503 games for ppg of .82 or basically his career average (as expected)
Jokinen has 473 points in 565 for ppg of .84 (very close I admit I feel abit better seeing this)
But it is slightly screwed due the fact that this has alot to do with Jokinen two seasons of 89 and 91 after the lockout. but I admit I was slightly () wrong.
I was saying that Tanguay as been a consistent 50+ point player saying I feel more comfortable with over Jokinen because of that.
And of course I can look at career totals when I am saying one has a more consistent career.
So because Tanguay had a better start to his career it makes him more consistent? Jokinen never cracked 50 points until his 5th full season, but since then he has not once fallen below that. Jokinen is a consistent 50 point player, a consistent 50 point player who has a more well rounded game than Tanguay.
And healthy is a big part of consistency is it not? Tanguay has missed the 50 point plateau 5 times in his career, including 3 of the past 4 seasons. Pro-rating those seasons does not make him more consistent because he can't contribute if he's not playing.
So because Tanguay had a better start to his career it makes him more consistent? Jokinen never cracked 50 points until his 5th full season, but since then he has not once fallen below that. Jokinen is a consistent 50 point player, a consistent 50 point player who has a more well rounded game than Tanguay.
And healthy is a big part of consistency is it not? Tanguay has missed the 50 point plateau 5 times in his career, including 3 of the past 4 seasons. Pro-rating those seasons does not make him more consistent because he can't contribute if he's not playing.
Based on what? The fact that he plays less pk and more pp. Or the fact he was known as defensive liability on florida before changing his game.
Jbo + Butler + Jokinen's rights to Washington for Green's rights + Johansson +Orlov/Perreault?
Washington probably would want to pair Bouwmeester with Green. the Caps are also high on Johansson. I think any deal from Washington likely includes Laich in a small package for Bouwmeester.
wow dude, you are just pulling **** out of your ass now.
I mean his game is better all around, like when you look at every facet of the game.
No I am not he was known as a offensive player not a 2-way player all stats I have ever seen suggest this as well as opinions I have heard. Since coming to Calgary he has worked on his defensive game which has taken huge strides but before that he wasn't great at all perhaps liability was to strong but Tanguay was certainly better.
No I am not he was known as a offensive player not a 2-way player all stats I have ever seen suggest this as well as opinions I have heard. Since coming to Calgary he has worked on his defensive game which has taken huge strides but before that he wasn't great at all perhaps liability was to strong but Tanguay was certainly better.
yes, WAS as in past tense.
the player Jokinen WAS 2-3 years ago is not how you judge them going forward, you judge them based on the player they are NOW.
Jokinen is a better all around player and they have similar offensive ability.
Unless you assume Jokinen will suddenly revert his game back to what it used to be, which I don't
the player Jokinen WAS 2-3 years ago is not how you judge them going forward, you judge them based on the player they are NOW.
Jokinen is a better all around player and they have similar offensive ability.
Unless you assume Jokinen will suddenly revert his game back to what it used to be, which I don't
I think you have misunderstood I said he was in Florida not is. I meant Tanguay has been consistently better defensively given their past I said nothing about now. I wouldn't say Jokinen was better all around as Tangs put up the same ppg and was a +7 were Jokinen was -12. Not saying that +- is a great stat but it has some meaning when they are on the same team. I would take Tanguay rather easily.
I think you have misunderstood I said he was in Florida not is. I meant Tanguay has been consistently better defensively given their past I said nothing about now. I wouldn't say Jokinen was better all around as Tangs put up the same ppg and was a +7 were Jokinen was -12. Not saying that +- is a great stat but it has some meaning when they are on the same team. I would take Tanguay rather easily.
Jokinen was used in a shutdown role, Tanguay was not. That is the big difference in the +/-.
The only areas of the game that Tanguay is better than Jokinen IMO is passing, I think they are equal in many facets (skating, passion, work ethic... etc) and I think Jokinen is a better shooter, better defensively, more physical and a better leader.
Another concern I have with Tanguay is that he is kind of a lone wolf in the room and can be overly emotional. I remember Regehr spilling the beans about Tanguay being a bit of a loner and sitting in his stall crying after a loss. Bringing this up is no disrespect to Tanguay, I love that he cares so much but the fact he is known to be a bit of a loner in the room. Jokinen on the other hand seems to be more involved.
If I had to choose between the 2 I would pick Olli without a 2nd thought because Tanguay has had shoulder injuries and a concussion in the last few years, Olli has shown a willingness to change his game and because of the differences in personalities.
But I would prefer to have both. I think they would be an effective duo down the line.
