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Offseason moves part 2

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Old
06-10-2012, 05:13 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
There was some interesting (although brief) discussion in the Couturier/Giordano thread on the trade section. Someone brought up the idea of Baertschi for Coururier. While we all love Baertschi if Philly was willing I think we would need to take this deal.
Yea it is a hard thing to do as I see Couturier as being a 65-80 point elite shutdown centermen (Comparison is Toews imo) while I see Sven as a 70-80 point 2-way winger (Comparison is P.Kane more defensive less offensive) but whne two players project to be about the same I would go with the centerman as it is easier to build around the center position but Philly has Giroux and Schenn as well so it makes sense to get a winger for them.

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06-10-2012, 05:16 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Yea it is a hard thing to do as I see Couturier as being a 65-80 point elite shutdown centermen (Comparison is Toews imo) while I see Sven as a 70-80 point 2-way winger (Comparison is P.Kane more defensive less offensive)
I would only do it because Couturier is a centerman, if they were both wingers I wouldn't.

I should also divulge that I really wanted Feaster to trade up for Couturier last year. I would have actually taken him 1st overall if I were the Oilers. I am very very high on him

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06-10-2012, 05:21 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
I would only do it because Couturier is a centerman, if they were both wingers I wouldn't.

I should also divulge that I really wanted Feaster to trade up for Couturier last year. I would have actually taken him 1st overall if I were the Oilers. I am very very high on him
I too wanted to trade up and get him and thought Philly would be the team to trade with but I am glad we didn't especially if this trade went down. The assets to trade up to get 8th wouldn't have been worth it imo.

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06-10-2012, 06:23 PM
  #104
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Oh man that would be a tough call, I LOVE Couturier! I think I would probably do it to. He may never end up being a 90pt centre, but I think the Toews comparisons are very warranted and a good projection as to what type of player he is going to end up being. He is an extremely smart player, excellent defensively and has a fantastic shot along with good on ice vision. Plus the kid is a winner, you can tell that.

I think the same about Sven to, he has an energy and drive that he will not be denied but at the end of day you need to build your team down the middle to be successful. So I think I would make the deal to.

Also, if we did make that deal we could arguably grab a very similar player as Sven in Collberg this draft.

Faska, Collberg and Aberg are my top picks for this draft (assuming we didn't do that deal). If we don't grab a forward in the first round we will have to wait til the 3rd to get one and the chances of grabbing an impactful forward there greatly decrease.

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06-10-2012, 06:27 PM
  #105
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He's a really good playmaker as well. I can see him hitting 90 points. Really the sky is the limit for that type of player.

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06-10-2012, 06:28 PM
  #106
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Also, as mentioned in the other thread if Guillaume Latendresse was available I would take a flyer on him. He has good upside and skill, and if he was injured it would give someone like Nemisz or others from the farm a chance for a roster spot. I think if healthy he is capable of putting up Stewart/Bourque numbers and would be a good addition on our 3rd line. I also like his combination of size and speed.

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06-10-2012, 06:31 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
No thanks captain obvious, I meant like prospects, younger players, assets we cant really afford to be losing and should be gaining.
Then don't make stupid statements?

I agree with the sentiment though.

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06-10-2012, 06:35 PM
  #108
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Oh man that would be a tough call, I LOVE Couturier! I think I would probably do it to. He may never end up being a 90pt centre, but I think the Toews comparisons are very warranted and a good projection as to what type of player he is going to end up being. He is an extremely smart player, excellent defensively and has a fantastic shot along with good on ice vision. Plus the kid is a winner, you can tell that.

I think the same about Sven to, he has an energy and drive that he will not be denied but at the end of day you need to build your team down the middle to be successful. So I think I would make the deal to.

Also, if we did make that deal we could arguably grab a very similar player as Sven in Collberg this draft.

Faska, Collberg and Aberg are my top picks for this draft (assuming we didn't do that deal). If we don't grab a forward in the first round we will have to wait til the 3rd to get one and the chances of grabbing an impactful forward there greatly decrease.
I disagree with the bolded part. The flames in 04 were not carrying elite talent down the middle and the team was structured around iginla and defense and that almost brought us a stanley cup. Granted that was the old NHL but I believe that with a strong group of wingers and a solid defence a team can still be successful with a weaker than normal group of Centerman. It would be ideal but I wouldn't say it is needed as really good top line Centerman are hard to come by.
As for the couturier and Sven ideal I would say no as I believe Sven will be a great player and I see couturier as a very good player. I think that we should not trade the one elite prospect that our own organization has drafted.

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06-10-2012, 06:37 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Then don't make stupid statements?

I agree with the sentiment though.
It wasn't a stupid statement it was me referring to assets as I mentioned and you not understanding what I was meant.

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06-10-2012, 06:53 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
I disagree with the bolded part. The flames in 04 were not carrying elite talent down the middle and the team was structured around iginla and defense and that almost brought us a stanley cup. Granted that was the old NHL but I believe that with a strong group of wingers and a solid defence a team can still be successful with a weaker than normal group of Centerman. It would be ideal but I wouldn't say it is needed as really good top line Centerman are hard to come by.
As for the couturier and Sven ideal I would say no as I believe Sven will be a great player and I see couturier as a very good player. I think that we should not trade the one elite prospect that our own organization has drafted.
You stated a good point that I thought of as well, that was the old NHL and the game was played differently back then. I do agree that there are exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking teams need to be deep down the middle if they want to be successful.

I don't want to lose Sven but I think I would do it for Couturier (although I don't expect it to happen anyways). Philly has a much deeper team than the Flames, Couturier was not expected to make the team last year but they had to find him a spot with how good his play was. Its almost like tossing a coin between the two, but I think I would do it if it was offered because I would love to see an elite centre like that here for years to come.

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06-10-2012, 06:57 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
You stated a good point that I thought of as well, that was the old NHL and the game was played differently back then. I do agree that there are exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking teams need to be deep down the middle if they want to be successful.

I don't want to lose Sven but I think I would do it for Couturier (although I don't expect it to happen anyways). Philly has a much deeper team than the Flames, Couturier was not expected to make the team last year but they had to find him a spot with how good his play was. Its almost like tossing a coin between the two, but I think I would do it if it was offered because I would love to see an elite centre like that here for years to come.
I agree that we need Centermen, especially an elite one, which couturier very well could be but I don't want to have to give up sven for it. More than likely try to draft one, who knows might end up getting a steal of a pick like last year.

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06-10-2012, 07:12 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by tyflames View Post
I agree that we need Centermen, especially an elite one, which couturier very well could be but I don't want to have to give up sven for it. More than likely try to draft one, who knows might end up getting a steal of a pick like last year.
I understand what your saying but at this point I think we should be trying to build our future around the center as we have just seen the previous/current core find minimal success without depth at center. It is extremely hard to build a contender around a winger.

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06-10-2012, 07:22 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I understand what your saying but at this point I think we should be trying to build our future around the center as we have just seen the previous/current core find minimal success without depth at center. It is extremely hard to build a contender around a winger.
I believe it would be tough to build around wingers but if that's one of the only options then it is not impossible. New jersey doesn't have that elite number one Centerman rather they have Ilya kovalchuk and Zach Parise on the wing with a strong goalie and defense. I know that building down the middle would be ideal, I do not disagree, but with the flames in the current shape don't seem to have that option. If organization wanted to build this team up right now I think they would have to build it around a winger, Sven Bartshi.

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06-10-2012, 07:25 PM
  #114
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I believe it would be tough to build around wingers but if that's one of the only options then it is not impossible. New jersey doesn't have that elite number one Centerman rather they have Ilya kovalchuk and Zach Parise on the wing with a strong goalie and defense. I know that building down the middle would be ideal, I do not disagree, but with the flames in the current shape don't seem to have that option. If organization wanted to build this team up right now I think they would have to build it around a winger, Sven Bartshi.
But if the Couts trade went down we could build around the center for the future. Also the Devils have depth at center which is more important than a true #1 centerman. They have 3 #2 centermen. The bruins were much the same it is depth that is key. I would like to start to build around center depth.

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06-10-2012, 07:36 PM
  #115
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But if the Couts trade went down we could build around the center for the future. Also the Devils have depth at center which is more important than a true #1 centerman. They have 3 #2 centermen. The bruins were much the same it is depth that is key. I would like to start to build around center depth.
Fair enough, I fully understand your logic but that is where I will agree to disagree with you. I believe that we build around what we have in the organization already and that is wingers like Bartshi being the main building piece and also Neimez, Ferland and let guys like Reinhart, Gaudreau, Grandlund, backlund develop as good Centerman with none of them being great.

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06-10-2012, 07:59 PM
  #116
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Sven is the next Parise.

Couturier is the next M. Koivu

Keep Sven

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06-10-2012, 08:11 PM
  #117
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I think Filip Kuba on a 2 year deal would be a good move. This is what Bryan Murray said about Kuba in February before the deadline:

I think he's one of our best defensemen, if not the steadiest guy at this point and time," Murray said. "He's played penalty killing, power play, has been Erik Karlsson's partner, plays a lot of minutes, has great respect on the team, I'm not sure why his name has ever come but at this time . . . unless I got something awfully, awfully good, it wouldn't do us any service to not keep him here."

Top 4 of Bouwmeester, Giordano, Kuba and Butler

Bottom 3 of Brodie, Smith and Babchuk.

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06-10-2012, 08:53 PM
  #118
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I think Filip Kuba on a 2 year deal would be a good move. This is what Bryan Murray said about Kuba in February before the deadline:

I think he's one of our best defensemen, if not the steadiest guy at this point and time," Murray said. "He's played penalty killing, power play, has been Erik Karlsson's partner, plays a lot of minutes, has great respect on the team, I'm not sure why his name has ever come but at this time . . . unless I got something awfully, awfully good, it wouldn't do us any service to not keep him here."

Top 4 of Bouwmeester, Giordano, Kuba and Butler

Bottom 3 of Brodie, Smith and Babchuk.
Would prefer Carle as he is younger and I feel that he would be a better linemate with Gio. Kuba is already 35 and starting to slow down. I know Carle would cost more but I feel he would be better suited for this team long term 5 year ~27 million to Carle

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06-10-2012, 09:01 PM
  #119
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Would prefer Carle as he is younger and I feel that he would be a better linemate with Gio. Kuba is already 35 and starting to slow down. I know Carle would cost more but I feel he would be better suited for this team long term 5 year ~27 million to Carle
That's to much for Carle IMO. He's probably a 3.75-4 million dollar dman. I think he'll get 4.5 this offseason which isn't horrendous, but 5+ is to much. He'd be the next Stajan in Calgary if we signed him to that much. Also, Gio is much better dman than Carle and we shouldn't sign him to a deal where he makes more than Gio.

I'd rather make a trade for Ballard if we were going to dish out that kind of cash.

Just my thoughts.

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06-10-2012, 09:08 PM
  #120
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It wasn't a stupid statement it was me referring to assets as I mentioned and you not understanding what I was meant.
Whatever makes you feel better about your lack of ability to elaborate your own thoughts.

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06-10-2012, 09:14 PM
  #121
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Whatever makes you feel better about your lack of ability to elaborate your own thoughts.
Or your lack of ability to read into what one is describing. As if we would be able to trade up in the draft with just normal assets. Give your head a shake.
And why would I need to feel better about my elborating on my own thoughts. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

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06-10-2012, 09:18 PM
  #122
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That's to much for Carle IMO. He's probably a 3.75-4 million dollar dman. I think he'll get 4.5 this offseason which isn't horrendous, but 5+ is to much. He'd be the next Stajan in Calgary if we signed him to that much. Also, Gio is much better dman than Carle and we shouldn't sign him to a deal where he makes more than Gio.

I'd rather make a trade for Ballard if we were going to dish out that kind of cash.

Just my thoughts.
Why Carle played 23+ minutes had 38 points was semi physical and blocked more shots than any flame best of all he is only 25. Ballard is lost defensively and has no confidence and please don't use the he played with Jbo argument they were not linemates. Ideally Carle is a 4-4.5 million dollar player but he is a ufa in order to make him come here 5-5.5 is needed and we don't have to give up assets for him. Unlike Stajan it is hard to misuse a defensive defenseman.

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06-10-2012, 10:24 PM
  #123
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Why Carle played 23+ minutes had 38 points was semi physical and blocked more shots than any flame best of all he is only 25. Ballard is lost defensively and has no confidence and please don't use the he played with Jbo argument they were not linemates. Ideally Carle is a 4-4.5 million dollar player but he is a ufa in order to make him come here 5-5.5 is needed and we don't have to give up assets for him. Unlike Stajan it is hard to misuse a defensive defenseman.
Or also there is Salvador, he will be a UFA possibly but considering his play these playoffs might be a bit pricy.

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06-10-2012, 10:30 PM
  #124
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Or also there is Salvador, he will be a UFA possibly but considering his play these playoffs might be a bit pricy.
He is also 36 I don't mind overpaying for a top4/top2 defenseman that is young and can have 5+ years with Gio. Kuba and Salvador are not those players they only have a few years left.

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06-10-2012, 10:45 PM
  #125
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Or your lack of ability to read into what one is describing. As if we would be able to trade up in the draft with just normal assets. Give your head a shake.
And why would I need to feel better about my elborating on my own thoughts. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
I read into what you were saying fine, I was correcting your horrendous English.

Its spelled "elaborating" by the way, and if you knew the definition of it you would understand. Ill give my head a shake when you retake high school English.

Lol whats a "normal" asset? That would be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You made a lazy response and when you got called on it you decided to act like a smart ass instead of just correcting your mistake.

Quote:
I would only do it because Couturier is a centerman, if they were both wingers I wouldn't.

I should also divulge that I really wanted Feaster to trade up for Couturier last year. I would have actually taken him 1st overall if I were the Oilers. I am very very high on him
Grass is always greener on the other side though. I would rather see what we have in Bart.

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