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Old
12-25-2004, 10:55 AM
  #1
pleasemyboy
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Role players

I remember for years we complained we had no good, young, role players. Now our system has lots of them and some are complaining. I have been down on Giroux but he still has the talent to be a good role player as does Murray, Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Helminen and Wiseman.

I would like to see more offense from those guys but it doesn't mean they can't help our team win. What team in the NHL has 3 great offensive lines? Plus, do those teams who have that win the cup every year? How many good offensive players did Tampa, Dallas and NJ have when they won the cup? You would be lucky to find 6 or 7 on the roster. I'd love to have a Forsberg, Sakic, Hedjuk and Tanguay. However, it doesn't mean you will the cup.

Plus you have to look at our PK unit which has been a joke. If Ortmeyer, Helminen, Murray and Hollweg can become good NHL penalty kill players our team will be a ton better. Our PK unit has destroyed us the past few years.

 
Old
12-25-2004, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleasemyboy
I remember for years we complained we had no good, young, role players. Now our system has lots of them and some are complaining. I have been down on Giroux but he still has the talent to be a good role player as does Murray, Ortmeyer, Hollweg, Helminen and Wiseman.

I would like to see more offense from those guys but it doesn't mean they can't help our team win. What team in the NHL has 3 great offensive lines? Plus, do those teams who have that win the cup every yea? How many good offensive players did Tampa, Dallas and NJ have when they won the cup? You would be lucky to find 6 or 7 on the roster. I'd love to have a Forsberg, Sakic, Hedjuk and Tanguay. However, it doesn't mean you will the cup.

Plus you have to look at our PK unit which has been a joke. If Ortmeyer, Helminen, Murray and Hollweg can become good NHL penalty kill players our team will be a ton better. Our PK unit has destroyed us the past few years.
Read my post

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12-25-2004, 10:58 AM
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What post?

 
Old
12-25-2004, 11:35 AM
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All I know is people tend to think players like Murray ,Ortemeyer,girouz,Hollweg, helminen are usleless cause they cant score.You will notice in response of people and even in the more so called "wiser posters or what ever people consider them"tend to say sos and so isnt an NHL'er because... then suddenly goal scoring comes up.I mean for people who know so much about hockey why is goal scoring a must with every single player.

Some one said a week or 2 ago Ortmeyer is useless cant remember who it was but they say he cant score for nothing so he has not much of a shot at being a solid NHL'er.Ok he cant score but what can he do which is play a high energy game and is excellent defensiively I would say a Jay Pandolpho type NHL player would be fair to say.

Players who are smart defenseively will create there own scoring chances thats a fact so guys like Ortmeyer and Murray, Helminen etc will all show what they can do , maybe, if alll in time they get a fair shot.

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12-25-2004, 03:04 PM
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Good idea = having role players

Bad idea = having nothing but role players.

Thank You.

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12-25-2004, 03:05 PM
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Ortmeyer I doubt will ever score much, Murray will probably start to show more scoring once he establishes himself in NHL. Helminen and Hollweg can and will contribute some scoring.

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12-25-2004, 03:06 PM
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"Good idea = having role players

Bad idea = having nothing but role players.

Thank You."

Obviously

 
Old
12-25-2004, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
Ortmeyer I doubt will ever score much, Murray will probably start to show more scoring once he establishes himself in NHL. Helminen and Hollweg can and will contribute some scoring.

Ortmeyer won't score at the NHL level and is unfortunatly probably a stop gap player.

Murray needs to be healthy to develop and so far that hasn't happened.

Helminen will likely chip in some solid points and Hollweg could develop as well.

These are all players you need to compete, and hopefully the Rangers add a few more diverse players to compliment them.

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12-25-2004, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleasemyboy
"Good idea = having role players

Bad idea = having nothing but role players.

Thank You."

Obviously
Yet I've learned for many the obvious must be simplified. I think people are misunderstanding the reactions to some of the role playing kids. They're wanted, but they're not the only thing wanted or needed for that matter.

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12-25-2004, 03:09 PM
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Ortmeyer can kill penalties well. That makes him better then 99% of the losers we had on the ice that couldn't do anything. At least he can do that.

 
Old
12-25-2004, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleasemyboy
Ortmeyer can kill penalties well. That makes him better then 99% of the losers we had on the ice that couldn't do anything. At least he can do that.
Yeah it does. I just think over the long haul you're gonna see some players come through the system who can do that {just as well} and give a little more in other areas as well.

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12-25-2004, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Yeah it does. I just think over the long haul you're gonna see some players come through the system who can do that {just as well} and give a little more in other areas as well.
I think Ortmeyer will be fine. He has more leadership then the bums we have had over the years, except Barnaby, Simon and Leetch.

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12-25-2004, 03:18 PM
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He has a lot of heart but the guy just cannot score, period end of sentence. The guy has no hands.

I think you're gonna see guys {possibly like} Helminen, etc. who will bring to the table what Ortmeyer does and eventually surpass him on the depth chart.

If the Rangers have an abundance of one things it's potentially useful 3rd and 4th line guys who will bring what Jed brings and a little more. Combine that with the fact that Jed is already 26 and you get a player who probably isn't in the long term plans simply because the Rangers will have better options {hopefully}.

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12-25-2004, 03:21 PM
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That Helminen looks like a real find. Guy can flat out skate and he's smart. At the worst I see him as a upgraded Ortmeyer which could certainly help us

 
Old
12-25-2004, 03:30 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pleasemyboy
Ortmeyer can kill penalties well. That makes him better then 99% of the losers we had on the ice that couldn't do anything. At least he can do that.
So could Brent Fedyk. I think we now have plenty of guys that can kill penalties well.

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12-25-2004, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
So could Brent Fedyk. I think we now have plenty of guys that can kill penalties well.
Fedyk stunk when he was here.

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12-25-2004, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41
Fedyk stunk when he was here.
I think that was his point.

Ortmeyer, unfortunetly, is almost at his ceiling as an NHL player. The things he does well are penalty kill and play with energy, yet he isn't going to improve much on those 2 areas. The things he needs...hands, scoring, size...are things that he probably isn't going to develop at this point.

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12-25-2004, 08:26 PM
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Having a forward that can kill...

penalties isn't anything special. There are tons of players that can kill penalties. The Rangers' PK problems weren't necessarily its forwards, it was their lack of aggressive and strong defenseman, who couldn't clear the front of the net, nor could they win the battles. Couple that with subpar goaltending and having to kill an inordinate amount of penalties in each game, and you have a crappy kill.

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Old
12-26-2004, 02:31 PM
  #19
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I think that is an important point that I hadn't really thought about. We could have 4 Selke Candidates on our PK but it won't mean a thing unless we have the right defense to back it up.

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