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The Official Offseason Thread (Part IV) - "Is the lockout over yet?"

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06-11-2012, 10:57 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Well said. I like the idea of adding Radulov and then trying to sign Schultz and honestly, maybe we even go hard after Suter instead of Parise.

Here's why:

If we add Radulov, Schultz, and Suter, then maybe we wait until the deadline to explore options for adding the dynamic forward to put us over the top.

We'd have the supreme defensive depth to deal one of our valuable defensemen without any second thoughts if that's what we need to acquire a top line forward.

OR, maybe the first half of the year shows us that we don't need a huge name like Nash or Ryan, but instead we just need to add a rental like a Whitney, Selanne, or Iginla (although not technically a rental). And with Gaborik missing the first month or so, that's some cap-space there already for a potential deadline move without giving up a Dubinsky, etc.

I'd be thrilled if we only added Radulov to the offense this offseason, while adding both Suter and Schultz, and then sitting back and seeing which players who are completely off the table right now become available by the deadline. It happens every year.

Suter is a long shot, but I think it's realistic to think we can add Radulov and Schultz. At that point, rather than throwing a huge offer at Parise or trading multiple assets for Nash, we throw a big offer at Suter. If he accepts, we do what I suggested above, and if not, we go into the season as is and explore whichever players become available before and at the deadline.

I think this is definitely the year to make a bold creative move or moves to put us over the top, but it doesn't have to necessarily be during the offseason. It can very well be done partly this offseason and partly during the season and at the deadline.

What do you guys think about that?
I don't think we need to go after Suter when McDonagh is basically Suter on an ELC.

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06-11-2012, 10:57 PM
  #327
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Kreider Richards Gaborik
Dubinsky Stepan Radulov
Hagelin Anisimov Callahan
Rupp Boyle Prust
Mitchell

Staal Suter (yes, he can play this side, and what a pair that would be. The twin towers)
McDonagh Girardi
Del Zotto Schultz
Erixon
Sauer(?)
McIrath

Lundqvist
Biron

Now THAT is what I call DEFENSIVE DEPTH. Then and only then can we be sure that we can afford to deal from such a vivacious strength to acquire the scorer that will put us over the top.

Then explore Iginla, Ryan, perhaps Nash, Whitney, Selanne, and other rentals at the deadline. Players that are off the table right now may become available by the deadline. Things change every year. With Gaborik missing the first month of the season most likely, that's some cap-space right there, and who knows what kind of injuries we suffer next year. We may not have to even move out a Dubinsky to make room for a deadline addition. If we added Radulov, Suter, and Schultz I'd be thrilled. If we add 2/3 I'd be very happy.

Edit: I also wouldn't be opposed to bringing back Feds for one more year. Great unsung hero type of player. Underrated in every aspect, IMO. Especially if Prust prices himself off the team, I'd want to bring Fedotenko back for 1 more year @ ~1mil.

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06-11-2012, 10:59 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I don't think we need to go after Suter when McDonagh is basically Suter on an ELC.
You wouldn't want both?

If we can sign Suter to a retirement deal with a cap-hit around 6...

Wouldn't you feel more comfortable dealing a Del Zotto or Erixon to get that scorer we need if we had a top 4 of Staal, Suter, McDonagh, Girardi?

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06-11-2012, 11:00 PM
  #329
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Once again, and again, and again Zuccarello Awesome...

If you are bringing in Ryan Suter, you aren't bringing him in to reduce his effectiveness by playing him on the wrong side. I have no doubt he can play there, but he will not be as good of a defenseman.

And I still don't see how we're signing Suter and Radulov under the Cap.

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06-11-2012, 11:02 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
You wouldn't want both?

If we can sign Suter to a retirement deal with a cap-hit around 6...

Wouldn't you feel more comfortable dealing a Del Zotto or Erixon to get that scorer we need if we had a top 4 of Staal, Suter, McDonagh, Girardi?
I think our top 4 is the best in the league already without Suter and we can deal Erixon or McIlrath for scoring regardless.

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06-11-2012, 11:03 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
So completely turn a team that went to the conference final inside out.

Flawless logic is flawless.
Explain how adding two pieces is turning a team inside out? Dealing for Nash on the other hand would in fact be turning the team inside out. Guess you got your logic mixed up.

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06-11-2012, 11:05 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Once again, and again, and again Zuccarello Awesome...

If you are bringing in Ryan Suter, you aren't bringing him in to reduce his effectiveness by playing him on the wrong side. I have no doubt he can play there, but he will not be as good of a defenseman.

And I still don't see how we're signing Suter and Radulov under the Cap.
Certainly a valid concern, but I don't see how you can tell me without a doubt that he will be not as good of a defenseman on that side. You haven't seen him play there, have you? I'd worry about where the guys play later. What's the worst case scenario? If he absolutely is wasted playing the opposite side (which I strongly disagree would be the case), then we have three pairs with legit #1 defensemen on them.

Staal Schultz

McDonagh Girardi

Suter Erixon/DZ/Sauer/Stralman/McIlrath

It's a better problem to have than having to play Stu Bickel 4 minutes per game.


About the salary cap, you're right. I'm not sure if it could work, but I'm not ruling it out. Just thinking and spitballing here.

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06-11-2012, 11:06 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Explain how adding two pieces is turning a team inside out? Dealing for Nash on the other hand would in fact be turning the team inside out. Guess you got your logic mixed up.
Oh I see what you meant.

The problem is you said "THEN deal for Nash" with an E as opposed to "THAN deal for Nash" with an A. That's two different things.

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06-11-2012, 11:07 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Certainly a valid concern, but I don't see how you can tell me without a doubt that he will be not as good of a defenseman on that side. You haven't seen him play there, have you? I'd worry about where the guys play later. What's the worst case scenario? If he absolutely is wasted playing the opposite side (which I strongly disagree would be the case), then we have three pairs with legit #1 defensemen on them.

Staal Schultz

McDonagh Girardi

Suter Erixon/DZ/Sauer/Stralman/McIlrath

It's a better problem to have than having to play Stu Bickel 4 minutes per game.


About the salary cap, you're right. I'm not sure if it could work, but I'm not ruling it out. Just thinking and spitballing here.
I'm saying it isn't worth the risk to find out if he's good on the opposite side. Having 3 #1 pair left D is not a recipe for a good team. You need balance. Too much NHL12 thinking there and not enough reality.

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06-11-2012, 11:10 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Oh I see what you meant.

The problem is you said "THEN deal for Nash" with an E as opposed to "THAN deal for Nash" with an A. That's two different things.
Ahh, yes, I did in fact mess that up. But, did you think I really meant to say... THEN deal the farm for Nash. I guess in these parts there are those who would actually endorse dealing the farm for him. lol

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06-11-2012, 11:11 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I think our top 4 is the best in the league already without Suter and we can deal Erixon or McIlrath for scoring regardless.
Not sure either one has enough value to bring back the type of scorer that would...make it worth it for us to trade them, hehe. They're probably more valuable to us than to another team or at least when it comes to what a team would be willing to give up for them.

Del Zotto on the other hand, has already scored ~40 points twice in the NHL. Not many 21 year old d-men can say that, so if we had Suter to go with Staal, McDonagh, and Danny, I'm more than comfortable building a package around DZ to acquire a legitimate proven top line scorer.

But also, we may end up seeing a team that is more than the sum of it's parts, and maybe the feeling becomes one in which we don't need a Nash, but rather a rental like Whitney or Selanne or Iginla(rental+1yr).

It would give us options.

Hell, even this is a possibility:

Staal Girardi
McDonagh Schultz
Suter Del Zotto / Erixon / Sauer / McIlrath

With a defense like that, our transition game and half court offense becomes much stronger and more dynamic. Maybe that defense with Radulov and a more experienced Kreider and Hagelin is enough. We'd get to watch and see what our needs really are for 60 games before deciding what to do at the deadline. Plus, injuries will happen and will often dictate the changing needs of a team.

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06-11-2012, 11:12 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Ahh, yes, I did in fact mess that up. But, did you think I really meant to say... THEN deal the farm for Nash. I guess in these parts there are those who would actually endorse dealing the farm for him. lol
Yeah there's those crazy people who wanna just trade for everyone and raise that Cap to 100M like in NHL 12, I thought you were one of those guys


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06-11-2012, 11:13 PM
  #338
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What would it cost to get Jamie McGinn? He's a RFA. Will be a 20+ goal player. Physical player.

A shrewd trade like that would be more wise than selling the farm for Nash, Getzlaf, Ryan, or handing out retirement contracts. Or singing pea brained players like Radulov.


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06-11-2012, 11:13 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Not sure either one has enough value to bring back the type of scorer that would...make it worth it for us to trade them, hehe. They're probably more valuable to us than to another team or at least when it comes to what a team would be willing to give up for them.

Del Zotto on the other hand, has already scored ~40 points twice in the NHL. Not many 21 year old d-men can say that, so if we had Suter to go with Staal, McDonagh, and Danny, I'm more than comfortable building a package around DZ to acquire a legitimate proven top line scorer.

But also, we may end up seeing a team that is more than the sum of it's parts, and maybe the feeling becomes one in which we don't need a Nash, but rather a rental like Whitney or Selanne or Iginla(rental+1yr).

It would give us options.

Hell, even this is a possibility:

Staal Girardi
McDonagh Schultz
Suter Del Zotto / Erixon / Sauer / McIlrath

With a defense like that, our transition game and half court offense becomes much stronger and more dynamic. Maybe that defense with Radulov and a more experienced Kreider and Hagelin is enough. We'd get to watch and see what our needs really are for 60 games before deciding what to do at the deadline. Plus, injuries will happen and will often dictate the changing needs of a team.
Are you so convinced Schultz is signing here that you include him in every hypothetical lineup?

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06-11-2012, 11:14 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
What would it cost to get Jamie McGinn? He's a RFA. Will be a 20+ goal player. Physical player.

A shewed trade like that would be more wise than selling the farm for Nash, Getzlaf, Ryan, or handing out retirement contracts. Or singing pea brained players like Radulov.
I like Jamie McGinn a lot. He's listed as a LW, but if we're not bringing in a high power LW, what we really need is an RW. Do you know if he plays both sides? I would be totally for that kind of move. 15-20 goal scorer to shore up the 3rd line.

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06-11-2012, 11:18 PM
  #341
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I'm saying it isn't worth the risk to find out if he's good on the opposite side. Having 3 #1 pair left D is not a recipe for a good team. You need balance. Too much NHL12 thinking there and not enough reality.
Oh come on. It's not NHL12 thinking. Don't be a jerk, man. I'm trying to have a legitimate discussion with you about this.

What RISK is it? Whoever proves to be the odd man out can be traded and bring back valuable assets.

Signing Ryan Suter can not be a bad thing, no matter what.

We can try guys on the opposite side. If it turns out to be such a disaster as you claim, well make the necessary adjustments and trade(s). Getting Suter for nothing but cap-space just gives us more valuable assets as potential trade chips.

It "softens the blow" of losing a guy like DZ or even Staal in a trade. Maybe we put together a package with Staal for a truly elite young talent like Taylor Hall or Eberle. (not advocating this, just using the example so relax) Yes, I know it's unlikely, but these are the kind of options you open up for yourself by creating the "good problem" of having too many top 4 LD or too many top 4 D in general.

There will always be a market for top4 defensemen. Ryan Suter is an outstanding player. He's not going to forget how to be an impact player because he's on the other side. It would be a transition for sure, but I guarantee Staal and Suter are elite enough to be an outstanding impact pair with minimal issues regarding either one on their "wrong" side.

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06-11-2012, 11:19 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I like Jamie McGinn a lot. He's listed as a LW, but if we're not bringing in a high power LW, what we really need is an RW. Do you know if he plays both sides? I would be totally for that kind of move. 15-20 goal scorer to shore up the 3rd line.
I'm sure they would be able to find a spot for him.

I think a move like this is closer to what needs to be done.

Won't cost the farm. But the player has upside. Won't get a huge contract.

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06-11-2012, 11:19 PM
  #343
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Are you so convinced Schultz is signing here that you include him in every hypothetical lineup?
Not at all. If you read my posts, you'd see I suggested that Schultz be one of our top priorities.

I suggested that instead of Parise, we focus on Radulov, Suter, and Schultz.

I'm not going to repeat the entire post.

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06-11-2012, 11:20 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
What would it cost to get Jamie McGinn? He's a RFA. Will be a 20+ goal player. Physical player.

A shewed trade like that would be more wise than selling the farm for Nash, Getzlaf, Ryan, or handing out retirement contracts. Or singing pea brained players like Radulov.
I know Im probably the only one on this but if we were to lets say offer sheet anybody I think it would be Matt Duchene, he is exactly what we need, but I could see McGinn probably our 1st for him.

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06-11-2012, 11:25 PM
  #345
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McGinn is Dubinsky on a good contract, I'd take him.

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06-11-2012, 11:25 PM
  #346
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Would love McGinn, but he won over Colorado's coaching staff when they traded for him.

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06-11-2012, 11:26 PM
  #347
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I know Im probably the only one on this but if we were to lets say offer sheet anybody I think it would be Matt Duchene, he is exactly what we need, but I could see McGinn probably our 1st for him.
Offer sheeting duchene sounds decent

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06-11-2012, 11:28 PM
  #348
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We are not going to be able to add Suter and get the offensive help, which what we actually need. You simply cannot afford both with the cap. I don't know who you plan on adding as a forward but they certainly won't be cheap. And if they are then they probably are not an upgrade or any help at all.

You can make del zotto a trading chip all you want (which is stupid in itself) but the fact is he doesn't make enough money to offset the salaries being exchanged.

Go after Parise. Radulov should be plan B. Semin should be Plan C. Jagr for depth (yes I know some will either disagree with this or say I wish but that time has passed). We could easily use Jagr for depth if we decide to let go of Fedotenko. It would balance out our PP units greatly, while giving us more size and strength along the boards. We have a very young team, we can afford one oldie.

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06-11-2012, 11:28 PM
  #349
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Zucc Awes, No, I'm sorry. It is NHL12 thinking. The whole idea that you can just switch a player up takes out all reality. It never happens. If you aren't talking about building a hockey team in reality, the other place you're talking about it is in a video game.

The risk is that you bring in a player who isn't a good fit for the team, a likelihood that's increased by intending to play him on a side he's unaccustomed to, and you end up trading a player who already was a good fit for the team. We need a right defenseman. I don't mean a righty defenseman, because with something like 60%+ of the league's D being lefties, there are quite a few of them playing the right side. I mean a legitimate right D. Bryan Allen (L), Milan Jurcina (R), Bryce Salvador (L), Matt Carle (L), Jason Garrison (L), Corey Sarich (R), and Dennis Wideman (R) are our options amongst the UFAs who are right D. I like Allen and Jurcina the most, but any one of those guys would be fine with me, although I have concerns with Sarich and Salvador's skating. Another intriguing possibility is Adrian Aucoin if he has anything left in the tank. It's about balance. Bringing in Suter is about avarice.

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06-11-2012, 11:29 PM
  #350
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We are not going to be able to add Suter and get the offensive help, which what we actually need. You simply cannot afford both with the cap. I don't know who you plan on adding as a forward but they certainly won't be cheap. And if they are then they probably are not an upgrade or any help at all.

You can make del zotto a trading chip all you want (which is stupid in itself) but the fact is he doesn't make enough money to offset the salaries being exchanged.

Go after Parise. Radulov should be plan B. Semin should be Plan C. Jagr for depth (yes I know some will either disagree with this or say I wish but that time has passed). We could easily use Jagr for depth if we decide to let go of Fedotenko. It would balance out our PP units greatly, while giving us more size and strength along the boards. We have a very young team, we can afford one oldie.
Yeah, doesn't seem very doable.

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