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The Official Offseason Thread (Part IV) - "Is the lockout over yet?"

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:07 PM
  #901
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I would much rather just sit tight with the youth and build from within and add guys that can provide a veteran presence at a reduced rate.

We desperately need a center who can win a faceoff and a veteran defenseman on the back end. Re-sign Biron and Prust, and Stralman if he doesn't go back to Sweden. Other than that, call up a youngster to replace Gabs for a few months and worst comes to worst we are .500 in December and send him down. We'll have Gabs hopefully healthy the rest of the way, rested, and ready to go, playing our best hockey down the stretch. I want the cap space for the deadline. I'd much rather see a Christian Thomas getting Top 9 minutes then signing or trading for a guy making $6M+++

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06-13-2012, 04:13 PM
  #902
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yes, because Christian Thomas has definitely shown that he is ready for a top-9 role in the NHL...

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06-13-2012, 04:16 PM
  #903
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No, he absolutely has not shown that, but what I am saying is that IMO we are better off staying within and playing a prospect for a few months, giving him a taste of the NHL until Gabby heals, then overreacting and acquiring a big name, big money scorer who will eat up cap space in the long term, require major assets in return, and abandon our current organizational philosophy. Nice response though.

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06-13-2012, 04:22 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by nyrmessier011 View Post
Couple thoughts:

1) Parise isn't going to sit there on break up day with his teammates who just lost in the finals and say anything other than he will never go to the teams biggest rival.

2) He's probably started negotiating already by saying he would never come to NY.

3) I would prefer to trade for Weber or Nash before I sign Parise outright.
Me too. This team doesn't need another runt to play for them!

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06-13-2012, 04:24 PM
  #905
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ok sourpuss, we get it, it's Konopka or stand pat for you.
Sourpuss? Konopka? You have me confused with someone else. I have read your posts. You sound confused.

Justin Schultz or Bust. *****.

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06-13-2012, 04:24 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
I would much rather just sit tight with the youth and build from within and add guys that can provide a veteran presence at a reduced rate.

We desperately need a center who can win a faceoff and a veteran defenseman on the back end. Re-sign Biron and Prust, and Stralman if he doesn't go back to Sweden. Other than that, call up a youngster to replace Gabs for a few months and worst comes to worst we are .500 in December and send him down. We'll have Gabs hopefully healthy the rest of the way, rested, and ready to go, playing our best hockey down the stretch. I want the cap space for the deadline. I'd much rather see a Christian Thomas getting Top 9 minutes then signing or trading for a guy making $6M+++
I like what you're saying but it won't go down that way. If we're going to remain competitive, we need to get bigger, tougher and better. Also, I really don't see Thomas getting even a sniff anytime soon.

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06-13-2012, 04:26 PM
  #907
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no. we needed another top 3 scorer to add to Richards and Gaborik. Now we have to at the very least replace Gaborik's production.
This is not overreaction. this is a common sense move.

honestly, from everything i'm reading, and from Shoenfeld's exit interview the season prior, management is looking to add top talent
via trades and ufa, because we are the NYR and we'll never finish
low enough to draft these types of players.

Adding players like many are advocating IS FOLLOWING OUR CURRENT PHILOSOPHY! There seems to be a remnant of fans that are still recovering from the 98'-04' years. Time to let go of the past guys...

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:29 PM
  #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Sourpuss? Konopka? You have me confused with someone else. I have read your posts. You sound confused.

Justin Schultz or Bust. *****.
i'm not confused holmes....

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06-13-2012, 04:29 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
no. we needed another top 3 scorer to add to Richards and Gaborik. Now we have to at the very least replace Gaborik's production.
This is not overreaction. this is a common sense move.

honestly, from everything i'm reading, and from Shoenfeld's exit interview the season prior, management is looking to add top talent
via trades and ufa, because we are the NYR and we'll never finish
low enough to draft these types of players.

Adding players like many are advocating IS FOLLOWING OUR CURRENT PHILOSOPHY! There seems to be a remnant of fans that are still recovering from the 98'-04' years. Time to let go of the past guys...
Kreider and a slightly improved Dubinsky replace Gaborik's production while he's out. We don't need another top 3 scorer if that is going to come with a $7M+/year contract. Now if you meant top 3 scorer on "this" team, then yes, we could use that.

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06-13-2012, 04:31 PM
  #910
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I had lobbied for trading for Shane Doan before the trade deadline, but the run Phoenix went on almost immediately after I said that rendered him unavailable. How 'bout now?

He's a UFA, and I'm not sure if he signed yet with Phoenix. I know he's old, but my goodness he played well in the playoffs this year. I would grab him on the relative cheap for a year or two.

We could always use a gritty character guy like Shane Doan, a guy who is worth far more than his numbers...and he did score some timely playoff goals as well. We need guys who step it up in the playoffs when it gets more difficult to play well, not guys who disappear.

IMO this is what Sather should be looking for...guys with character and skill who don't break the bank or cost us our youth.

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06-13-2012, 04:35 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers aren't the only team with big bucks anymore.
Thought I seen a quote from Gordie Clark today that the Rangers are the place everyone wants to play again.

One of the links on snyrangersblog.

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06-13-2012, 04:35 PM
  #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Kreider and a slightly improved Dubinsky replace Gaborik's production while he's out. We don't need another top 3 scorer if that is going to come with a $7M+/year contract. Now if you meant top 3 scorer on "this" team, then yes, we could use that.
Krieder's the real deal that's for sure, but we should still keep expectations in tow. I'm not so sure about Dubinsky anymore. You're penciling him in as improved when he needs to reestablish himself altogether. if it happens great, but i'll believe it when i see it.

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Old
06-13-2012, 04:39 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
No, he absolutely has not shown that, but what I am saying is that IMO we are better off staying within and playing a prospect for a few months, giving him a taste of the NHL until Gabby heals, then overreacting and acquiring a big name, big money scorer who will eat up cap space in the long term, require major assets in return, and abandon our current organizational philosophy. Nice response though.
The organizational strategy has never been to rush young players that aren't ready. You're thinking of Columbus.

The idea that Rick Nash is a defensive liability and lazy, but Christian Thomas is exactly what we need is a little off to me.

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06-13-2012, 04:39 PM
  #914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Kreider and a slightly improved Dubinsky replace Gaborik's production while he's out. We don't need another top 3 scorer if that is going to come with a $7M+/year contract. Now if you meant top 3 scorer on "this" team, then yes, we could use that.
EXACTLY. Thank you. Agree 100%.

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06-13-2012, 04:42 PM
  #915
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The organizational strategy has never been to rush young players that aren't ready. You're thinking of Columbus.

The idea that Rick Nash is a defensive liability and lazy, but Christian Thomas is exactly what we need is a little off to me.
I was referring to the philosophy that the team is building from within. I understand you have to acquire talent to complement the players we develop, but management overreacting and trading Del Zotto, Dubinsky, ++ for Nash and his albatross contract is not what we need. It doesn't have to be Thomas, don't get hung up on that, I am just high on him, and was using him as an example. It can be whoever. We need to have a bit of foresight salary cap wise, and keep building from within.

I love Nash, but not at the price he will cost in talent + $. And I never said he was a defensive liability or lazy - I think he would be a great addition to the team. It's just the assets I am concerned about.

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06-13-2012, 04:44 PM
  #916
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I had lobbied for trading for Shane Doan before the trade deadline, but the run Phoenix went on almost immediately after I said that rendered him unavailable. How 'bout now?

He's a UFA, and I'm not sure if he signed yet with Phoenix. I know he's old, but my goodness he played well in the playoffs this year. I would grab him on the relative cheap for a year or two.

We could always use a gritty character guy like Shane Doan, a guy who is worth far more than his numbers...and he did score some timely playoff goals as well. We need guys who step it up in the playoffs when it gets more difficult to play well, not guys who disappear.

IMO this is what Sather should be looking for...guys with character and skill who don't break the bank or cost us our youth.
I would be on board with this. I always liked Doan. He's got leadership. What would his contract cost us? 2 year deal, $8-10 Mill? Also depends on if he wants to play here.

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06-13-2012, 04:47 PM
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
I was referring to the philosophy that the team is building from within. I understand you have to acquire talent to complement the players we develop, but management overreacting and trading Del Zotto, Dubinsky, ++ for Nash and his albatross contract is not what we need. It doesn't have to be Thomas, don't get hung up on that, I am just high on him, and was using him as an example. It can be whoever. We need to have a bit of foresight salary cap wise, and keep building from within.

I love Nash, but not at the price he will cost in talent + $. And I never said he was a defensive liability or lazy - I think he would be a great addition to the team. It's just the assets I am concerned about.
You can build with youth as long as you want but if you're not in the position to draft serious top 6 talent and don't have any in the pipeline eventually you have to trade some of that youth for proven NHL talent. It's not a knee jerk reaction to trade Del Zotto and Dubinsky especially if they sign Schultz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
I would be on board with this. I always liked Doan. He's got leadership. What would his contract cost us? 2 year deal, $8-10 Mill? Also depends on if he wants to play here.
He's not leaving the desert, I hate to speak in absolutes but I think with Doan it's about as absolute as it gets.

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06-13-2012, 04:54 PM
  #918
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You can build with youth as long as you want but if you're not in the position to draft serious top 6 talent and don't have any in the pipeline eventually you have to trade some of that youth for proven NHL talent. It's not a knee jerk reaction to trade Del Zotto and Dubinsky especially if they sign Schultz.
It is a knee jerk if it is to replace Gaborik's production and not a calculated, long term beneficial move. I am not opposed to moving them in the right deal but not "because we need scoring" from October till December.


Quote:
He's not leaving the desert, I hate to speak in absolutes but I think with Doan it's about as absolute as it gets.
Truth.

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06-13-2012, 04:57 PM
  #919
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It is a knee jerk if it is to replace Gaborik's production and not a calculated, long term beneficial move. I am not opposed to moving them in the right deal but not "because we need scoring" from October till December.
That's the thing, we needed more scoring at the start of last season. It is to replace Gaborik in the interim but to bolster our offensive production for the entire season and to relieve some of the pressure from Gaborik. To move away from the one trick pony teams we've had for years now.

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06-13-2012, 05:06 PM
  #920
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That's the thing, we needed more scoring at the start of last season. It is to replace Gaborik in the interim but to bolster our offensive production for the entire season and to relieve some of the pressure from Gaborik. To move away from the one trick pony teams we've had for years now.
That's a valid point, but at the same time we have scoring depth, and we have kids coming up who can score. Full season of Kreider, improved Hagelin, better years from Richards/Dubinsky.

I'm not saying to avoid adding scoring - I am saying it needs to be a calculated decision weighing every factor - $, future cap space (ability to resign upcoming RFAs), assets given, etc.

And our team was almost top 10 in scoring last year, no?

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06-13-2012, 05:10 PM
  #921
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That's a valid point, but at the same time we have scoring depth, and we have kids coming up who can score. Full season of Kreider, improved Hagelin, better years from Richards/Dubinsky.

I'm not saying to avoid adding scoring - I am saying it needs to be a calculated decision weighing every factor - $, future cap space (ability to resign upcoming RFAs), assets given, etc.

And our team was almost top 10 in scoring last year, no?
Where was our scoring depth in the playoffs?

I'm not advocating signing or trading for as many large contracts as possible but if you can fit another one now and in the future why not do it?

I like being optimistic about kids and bounce back years but if they don't happen you're in the same spot once again.

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06-13-2012, 05:12 PM
  #922
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That's a valid point, but at the same time we have scoring depth, and we have kids coming up who can score. Full season of Kreider, improved Hagelin, better years from Richards/Dubinsky.

I'm not saying to avoid adding scoring - I am saying it needs to be a calculated decision weighing every factor - $, future cap space (ability to resign upcoming RFAs), assets given, etc.

And our team was almost top 10 in scoring last year, no?
If anything, we've seen the "improved" Carl Hagelin already. I dont know if you're expecting more from what he showed during the regular season but, if so, prepare to be disappointed.

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06-13-2012, 05:16 PM
  #923
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Outside Parise, the UFA forward market is barren. I hope we do not reengage discussions on Nash. Instead, take the assets we have and look to the RFA market. If they remain unsigned, explore the cost of Evander Kane, Jamie Benn, Matt Duchene, Chris Stewart, David Perron, etc.

I would pay more for Kane or Benn than Nash without question.

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06-13-2012, 05:19 PM
  #924
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It's pretty widely known that Suter prefers living in the country to living in a major city.
Playing for the Rangers doesn't mean he has to live in Manhattan. In fact, I believe only a few of the current Rangers actually live in the city.

Westchester is less than an hour away from NYC.

Most normal people commute to their jobs. No reason why Suter couldn't live in a more rural-ish town / area and take the train or drive to and from the garden. Or with the money we'd be paying him, he could afford limo service.

And while it may be important to him, I'm sure there are more factors on his list than "farm town, check!"

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06-13-2012, 05:25 PM
  #925
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Darren Dreger on NHL Live

Parise's agents can not happy with his Rangers comments. Takes away some leverage. The Rangers will still look into Parise on July 1.

Rick Nash. The Rangers will take another run at him. Toronto. Carolina. Want someone to play with Staal. SJ. He thinks the deal could contain 4-6 assets. Substantial assets. Good luck.

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