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Toughness Debate Thread: Laraque making a come back?

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Old
06-11-2012, 05:21 PM
  #226
Gabe84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
What a bad argument. So for you, Tie Domi is not an enforcer ? What about Michael Haley ? Jon Mirasty ?
I see your point.

So... How about this: Roberge played 3 games during those playoffs, had 0 mins of penalty.

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06-11-2012, 05:57 PM
  #227
Et le But
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What's funny is, for all the talk of "wimps", the Habs didn't really struggle this year against the "tough" teams. For all the talk about how tough Ottawa got and it paid off - we wiped the floor with them. We outplayed the Rags, had a bad year against the Bruins yet still played them close (but with zero incidents). We even beat the Kings in LA.

Personally I'm more embarrassed that the Habs got outplayed by bottom feeders (including soft ones) and couldn't win any hockey games than I am that they didn't win any "heavyweight" shirt pulling. Losing to the Islanders, Blue Jackets, being swept by the goonless Capitals, that's embarrassing.


Last edited by Et le But: 06-11-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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06-11-2012, 05:58 PM
  #228
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If anyone saw his interview at TVA sport, you can see that NOW he has the right approach. Knows that IF he gets a chance, he will play 30-40 games, 3-4 min per game. He also understand that he will need to fight a lot more than he did prior his 2 years of inactivity. I think hes worth a tryout. If he does what he says fine, if not, bye and we sign/acquire somebody else. If I have the choice between Staubitz or an healthy Laraque, I take Laraque. Always respected the guy and wish him the best. God I will love to see a Laraque/Lucic showdown.

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06-11-2012, 05:59 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Stephaaane View Post
If anyone saw his interview at TVA sport, you can see that NOW he has the right approach. Knows that IF he gets a chance, he will play 30-40 games, 3-4 min per game. He also understand that he will need to fight a lot more than he did prior his 2 years of inactivity. I think hes worth a tryout. If he does what he says fine, if not, bye and we sign/acquire somebody else. If I have the choice between Staubitz or an healthy Laraque, I take Laraque. Always respected the guy and wish him the best. God I will love to see a Laraque/Lucic showdown.
You won't.

1- Laraque won't play at NHL level ever

2- IF he plays, Lucic gonna laugh in his face and turn around.

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06-11-2012, 06:04 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There's an insurmountable amount of examples of cheap hits happening to players with enforcers dressed.
Of course there are, NHL teams play some 3,000 games a year.

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06-11-2012, 06:13 PM
  #231
Et le But
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Lucic is a top 6 forward. What could he possibly gain from fighting Laraque? Have less Habs fans call him a chicken?

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06-11-2012, 06:19 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
What's funny is, for all the talk of "wimps", the Habs didn't really struggle this year against the "tough" teams. For all the talk about how tough Ottawa got and it paid off - we wiped the floor with them. We outplayed the Rags, had a bad year against the Bruins yet still played them close (but with zero incidents). We even beat the Kings in LA.
We weren't relevant enough for anyone to bother gooning it up against us

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06-11-2012, 06:22 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
You won't.

1- Laraque won't play at NHL level ever

2- IF he plays, Lucic gonna laugh in his face and turn around.
Tell me Laraque cant play like other goons like Staubitz, Janssen, Parros, ... Again, after a couple of exhibition games will se if theres something left in him.

2- Many things could make this happen. Ex : Emelin destroys Krejci, Lucic goes to defend him and then comes the showdown. Dont get me wrong, this scenario has as much chance happening as Gomez hitting 70 pts, but nonetheless, would make, if thats possible, BOS vs MTL matchup funnier.

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06-11-2012, 06:39 PM
  #234
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The only reason he want to come back is his contract with the Habs expired and he's in need of money.

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06-11-2012, 06:44 PM
  #235
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Well for one at least this time he would have the coach on his side since he played for Therrien twice already. Laraque when he fought waste ****! It was always clear cut KO's or at the very least a draw. Sadly 2 things happened, his back was done and mother of hell was he badly used. Goes from playing 1/3 of the games to 1st line IN THE PLAYOFFS! No wonder nobody like him.

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06-11-2012, 07:09 PM
  #236
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I'll give you the toughness of the Bruins, matched by noone in this league;

Neil , yup, but then I believe it falls apart a bit.;


Orr (5), Shelley, Carkner, Parros, Rosehill, McCormick, Scott, MacIntyre, Janssen, Erskine, Bollig, McGrattan, Kassian, Hordichuk, Ivanans (1), Létourneau-Leblond (3), Vandermeer, Westgarth, Bissonnette, all played 50 or less games, Boulton & Barch 51 gms each, with the majority not even playing double digit minutes in those games. Heavyweights maybe, but regular roster players no!!

Not one of the three mentioned for LA & Jersey, has been dressed, so what are their true value???

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06-11-2012, 07:11 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
I see your point.

So... How about this: Roberge played 3 games during those playoffs, had 0 mins of penalty.
Got to get there first.

Round One of the playoffs was a fight filled affair this year. Have people forgotten that yet?

What a lot of people dont get is that you match-up against your opponent. If they want to fight and play rough, have a roster where you can ice players who are willing to mix it up. If a team wants to play skill hockey, ice a team of skilled players and put your tough guys in the press box.

The Kings have a team capable of fighting it out with the best of them. In the Stanley Cup Finals, they dont need it.

Its pretty simple and a hell of a lot better than disarming in the toughness department unilaterally.

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06-11-2012, 07:17 PM
  #238
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Here are a list of the top fighters from this past season:


http://www.hockeyfights.com/leaders/players/1/reg2012

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06-11-2012, 07:21 PM
  #239
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BTW, Prust 6' 195lbs, while Thornton is 6'2", 202lbs. 2", 7 lbs difference, but Prust is 29 yrs old while Thronton is 35!!!

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06-11-2012, 07:32 PM
  #240
Aurel Joliat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
What's funny is, for all the talk of "wimps", the Habs didn't really struggle this year against the "tough" teams. For all the talk about how tough Ottawa got and it paid off - we wiped the floor with them. We outplayed the Rags, had a bad year against the Bruins yet still played them close (but with zero incidents). We even beat the Kings in LA.

Personally I'm more embarrassed that the Habs got outplayed by bottom feeders (including soft ones) and couldn't win any hockey games than I am that they didn't win any "heavyweight" shirt pulling. Losing to the Islanders, Blue Jackets, being swept by the goonless Capitals, that's embarrassing.
We started to be a respectable team when Staubitz was claimed off waivers and when White returns from his injury. I remember the Habs being intimidated by the Lightning (yes, the ****ing soft TB Lightning) during the pre-season. And also by the Carolina Hurricanes when Anthony Stewart wanted to drop them and we had nobody to answer the call !!! Those are 2 of the softers team in the NHL. So you are right about this. What about the game when Brown tried to fight Subban and nobody protected him... There are plenty of examples where the Habs were intimidated. Hopefully we completed the year with a much tougher line-up and the games were A LOT more fun to watch

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06-11-2012, 07:40 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
We started to be a respectable team when Staubitz was claimed off waivers and when White returns from his injury. I remember the Habs being intimidated by the Lightning (yes, the ****ing soft TB Lightning) during the pre-season. And also by the Carolina Hurricanes when Anthony Stewart wanted to drop them and we had nobody to answer the call !!! Those are 2 of the softers team in the NHL. So you are right about this. What about the game when Brown tried to fight Subban and nobody protected him... There are plenty of examples where the Habs were intimidated. Hopefully we completed the year with a much tougher line-up and the games were A LOT more fun to watch
Respectable? We were already fighting for the bottom position in the East. I don't care how many guys can fight on your team, there is NOTHING respectable about it.

You guys have to stop painting a picture of the players as if they're little babies. So what if Brown tried to fight Subban? Who cares? Did PK cry?

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06-11-2012, 07:47 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
What about the game when Brown tried to fight Subban and nobody protected him... There are plenty of examples where the Habs were intimidated.
This is quite a funny example, as the Toronto board had a thread referencing the same match where posters were providing examples to 'prove' their contention that the Leafs were intimidated and (lets guess)..needed an enforcer.

Which really just goes to prove how easy to is for people to take irrelevant examples and use them to prop up their existing biases, when two fanbases can both claim their team was intimidated by the other in the same match.

I've constantly advocated that we need somewhat more toughnesss, for want of a better word. But I don't really care that Anthony Stewart wanted to fight someone and no-one obliged. it's completely and utterly irrelevant.

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06-11-2012, 07:56 PM
  #243
Aurel Joliat
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Respectable? We were already fighting for the bottom position in the East. I don't care how many guys can fight on your team, there is NOTHING respectable about it.

You guys have to stop painting a picture of the players as if they're little babies. So what if Brown tried to fight Subban? Who cares? Did PK cry?
Did you ever play hockey ? When a teammate refuse a fight, and you know that nobody on the bench can answer the call, it's very frustrating, and very bad for the team spirit.

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06-11-2012, 08:03 PM
  #244
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According to the Islanders board, they might lose Haley. If we want a guy mainly to fight he'd be a good option - in what I've seen he's actually a real 4th liner, actually plays hockey and besides being willing to fight anyone, he's difficult to play against.

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06-11-2012, 08:05 PM
  #245
Aurel Joliat
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
According to the Islanders board, they might lose Haley. If we want a guy mainly to fight he'd be a good option - in what I've seen he's actually a real 4th liner, actually plays hockey and besides being willing to fight anyone, he's difficult to play against.
He's tough as nails for 5'10

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06-11-2012, 08:09 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
According to the Islanders board, they might lose Haley. If we want a guy mainly to fight he'd be a good option - in what I've seen he's actually a real 4th liner, actually plays hockey and besides being willing to fight anyone, he's difficult to play against.
The things I'd do to get Matt martin on this team, though...

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06-11-2012, 08:14 PM
  #247
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The things I'd do to get Matt martin on this team, though...
Sadly I don't see the Isles letting him go..because that's the kind of guy you really want.

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06-11-2012, 08:26 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
Did you ever play hockey ? When a teammate refuse a fight, and you know that nobody on the bench can answer the call, it's very frustrating, and very bad for the team spirit.
Yes, I have played hockey and I was always told not to depend on anybody to fight my own battles, and I was took pleasure in trying to lay the bigger opponent out.

That said, I couldn't care less if a teammate didn't fight.

Sure, team spirit can get influenced by it and both ways. Stick up for a teammate, get your butt kicked, that won't lift the bench up much.
Kostopoulos used to stick up for everybody, Komi also did it, yet it was one of the worst locker room. So let's stop pretending like it is an absolute need in order to have good team spirit.

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06-11-2012, 09:12 PM
  #249
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BTW, Prust 6' 195lbs, while Thornton is 6'2", 202lbs. 2", 7 lbs difference, but Prust is 29 yrs old while Thronton is 35!!!
You do understand that the number of fights doesn't really matter when comparing the strenght of each fighters? Prust fought a lot, but he fought other middleweights like Konopka, Gaustad, Moen, etc.

While Thornton has 20 fights, most fought agianst heavyweight slike Rupp, shelley, Boulton, Neil...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwey View Post
Orr (5), Shelley, Carkner, Parros, Rosehill, McCormick, Scott, MacIntyre, Janssen, Erskine, Bollig, McGrattan, Kassian, Hordichuk, Ivanans (1), Létourneau-Leblond (3), Vandermeer, Westgarth, Bissonnette, all played 50 or less games, Boulton & Barch 51 gms each, with the majority not even playing double digit minutes in those games. Heavyweights maybe, but regular roster players no!!

Not one of the three mentioned for LA & Jersey, has been dressed, so what are their true value???
Because they are enforcers. You don't need to play them every every night.

People on here would like to see Blunden, Engqvist, Palushaj and Nokelainen on the 4th line. These guys aren't any better than Thornton or Rupp, yet people wouldn't want to see Thornton in their line-up just because he's a "useless goon" and "the era of goons is over".

ENFORCERS AREN'T WORST HOCKEY PLAYERS THAN MIKE BLUNDEN.

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06-11-2012, 09:14 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Laraque should stay were he is. I don't want him near this team. Give me a though guy that can fight but also play a bit of hockey
While I can understand and respect that you wouldn't want him on the Habs, explain why Laraque should "stay where he is"? Isn't it a free world and why can't he give it a shot? Whether he succeeds or not remains to be seen, but I'll never, ever condemn someone for pursuing his dream, if it's not illegal.

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