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Toughness Debate Thread: Laraque making a come back?

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Old
06-11-2012, 01:49 PM
  #176
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by EnforcerWeNeed View Post
Travis Moen on a second line? That's a joke right?
Typo, I meant top 9 as I referenced earlier.

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06-11-2012, 01:50 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
He 'stopped' trying to injure Karlsson because, if you actually watched him play, that's not really Boyle's game at all. Guy is as soft as butter for his size. It was an isolated event. The rest of the series, he played his game and was, as I said, the best Ranger.

The idea that he would have gone on some kind of monsterous wrecking spree if Carkner hasn't stepped in is fairly laughable. Carkner's actions seemed to have a positive effect on his team mates, and they won that game, so they'd probably take that, but it had no discernable effect on Boyle.
Oh yeah, Boyle is soft, but still tried to injure Erik Karlsson. You should've watched the games instead of just relying on the score sheet. Speared him, slashed him, made everything possible to bother him. He stopped after taking a pounding.

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06-11-2012, 01:51 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Typo, I meant top 9 as I referenced earlier.
I wouldn't even play him on the 3rd line unless there are injuries or you have a bad team like the Habs.

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06-11-2012, 01:54 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by EnforcerWeNeed View Post
I wouldn't even play him on the 3rd line unless there are injuries or you have a bad team like the Habs.
He won stanley cup playing on 3rd line. AK-Eller-Moen was an effective line for us in the past as well. If we put moen on 3rd line i'd probably want another of his type rotating around bottom 6.

I mean, having prust and moen would be nice and you play them wherever they fit best.

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06-11-2012, 01:55 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
The Habs are better looking at Matt Kassian. If that guy can take a regular shift, and will drop with anyone who takes liberties (not the other team's heavy weight).... then look at him.
Oh no, you didn't said that, don't you? You didn't just said we needed of a useless goon, you moronic, low-class, skill-hating, cave man?!

(Joke aside, I agree with you, Kassian on the 4th line 5 minutes a game, Carkner on the 3rd pair, 14 minutes a game!)

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06-11-2012, 01:57 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by EnforcerWeNeed View Post
I wouldn't even play him on the 3rd line unless there are injuries or you have a bad team like the Habs.
If you're penciling Moen into the fourth line with guys like White, Staubitz, Blunden, Nokelainen (I know he won't re-sign, just as an example), then you're very wrong. Moen lacks the offensive side to play a top 6 role but he still has soft hands for a bigger guy and can add some secondary scoring on a third line. His defensive game is good enough, especially when playing with Eller. Hell, the Habs third line of Moen-Eller-Kostitsyn was a nightmare to play against when they were rolling on all cylinders.

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06-11-2012, 01:59 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
It doesn't get better than the 95-96 team IMO. Brashear and Odelein were willing to go almost every game and nobody was messed with like what we've been seeing the last 3 years.
I prefer the Stanley Cup winning 92-93 team.

Odelein, Ewen, and Roberge. Those dudes were always ready and willing!

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06-11-2012, 01:59 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by EnforcerWeNeed View Post
Thornton isn't the type of guy that'll be calmed since it's his job to enforce.
This is your example we're following right? You were the one who brought up Thornton and said that an 'enforcer' (as defined by you) was needed to clam him down otherwise Travis Moen (bizzare example but never mind) would be scared of hitting people.

But when I ask for examples, you say it won't work on Thornton anyway.

No offence, but these points have been argued before on these boards many times, and most of those times other people have done a much more credible job of arguing them than you're doing.

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06-11-2012, 02:10 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by WHY LIE GUY View Post
I prefer the Stanley Cup winning 92-93 team.

Odelein, Ewen, and Roberge. Those dudes were always ready and willing!
1) Odelein was an important piece to the defense. Not just a 6th dman used as an enforcer.
2) Ewen played one playoff game.
3) Roberge was 5'11, 190lbs. Not sure if I'd qualify him as an enforcer.

Nobody's arguing about having talented guys that can fight on the roster. I mean, I'm not a proponent of fighting, far from it. But hey, if that's what it takes to win. What most are saying is, the idea that we NEED an enforcer is ridiculous. They're a dying breed. And the NHL is taking a different route regarding rules and enforcing them. So the need for an enforcer will most likely diminish as the years go by.

And once again, by definition, an enforcer is a guy who's sole "hockey skill"--or at the very least, his best skill by far--is fighting and intimidating other players. So naming Evander Kane as an example of an enforcer is beyond ridiculous.

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06-11-2012, 02:11 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
He won stanley cup playing on 3rd line. AK-Eller-Moen was an effective line for us in the past as well. If we put moen on 3rd line i'd probably want another of his type rotating around bottom 6.

I mean, having prust and moen would be nice and you play them wherever they fit best.
This was my line-up in the "you're the GM" thread.

Line-up

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Morrow - Plekanec - Parenteau
Malone - Eller - Moen
Parros - White - Prust

Markov - Emelin
Subban - Gorges
Diaz - Carkner

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06-11-2012, 02:15 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
This is your example we're following right? You were the one who brought up Thornton and said that an 'enforcer' (as defined by you) was needed to clam him down otherwise Travis Moen (bizzare example but never mind) would be scared of hitting people.

But when I ask for examples, you say it won't work on Thornton anyway.

No offence, but these points have been argued before on these boards many times, and most of those times other people have done a much more credible job of arguing them than you're doing.
There's an insurmountable amount of examples of cheap hits happening to players with enforcers dressed.

There's only one way of preventing cheap shots, and that's by dishing out huge suspensions. It's been argued that if the instigator rule was removed, it would prevent them, but truth is cheap shots happened even back when that rule didn't exist. Maybe it would lower them, but they'd still be very present imo.
Heavy suspensions is the best way of lowering them imo.


Having an enforcer does nothing, but it's tough for some people to admit because that would mean they're useless.

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06-11-2012, 02:16 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There's an insurmountable amount of examples of cheap hits happening to players with enforcers dressed.

There's only one way of preventing cheap shots, and that's by dishing out huge suspensions. It's been argued that if the instigator rule was removed, it would prevent them, but truth is cheap shots happened even back when that rule didn't exist. Maybe it would lower them, but they'd still be very present imo.
Heavy suspensions is the best way of lowering them imo.


Having an enforcer does nothing, but it's tough for some people to admit because that would mean they're useless.
I can't imagine you're a Habs fan at all if you feel absolutly nothing when you see your bunch of wimps getting beaten up 82 games a season.

Zdeno Chara being suspended after Max Pacioretty's hit would have had no incident on Habs game. Having an enforcer that would've enforced reinjects some pride and some team toughness into that bunch of wimps.

But pride isn't something you must know about, I'm aware.

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06-11-2012, 02:17 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by EnforcerWeNeed View Post
I can't imagine you're a Habs fan at all if you feel absolutly nothing when you see your bunch of wimps getting beaten up 82 games a season.
I'd love to see you call Lars Eller a wimp to his face

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06-11-2012, 02:19 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
I'd love to see you call Lars Eller a wimp to his face
That's an irrelevant comment. I have nothing against carrying soft players but they must be surrounded by guys who aren't wimps. I have nothing against Eller but I would tell him his team is a bunch of wimps who get beaten up and you would be better off in Boston.

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06-11-2012, 02:23 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by EnforcerWeNeed View Post
That's an irrelevant comment. I have nothing against carrying soft players but they must be surrounded by guys who aren't wimps. I have nothing against Eller but I would tell him his team is a bunch of wimps who get beaten up and you would be better off in Boston.
No, it's not an irrelevnat comment at all.

You sit there from behind your computer calling a bunch of men wimps.

Hell I'd like to even see you call Desharnais a wimp to his face.

This is too funny, easily my favourite part about HFboards these days.

You rock my world.

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06-11-2012, 02:26 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by EnforcerWeNeed View Post
There aren't much I'd say. Lucic, Neil and Rupp are keepers.

When you get a tough guy from the UFA market, you can't get really etter than Matt Carkner this off-season.
Bryan Allen and Barret Jackmen while not as dominant fighters can take on most of the heavy weights and can play the game at a higher level than poor Matt.

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06-11-2012, 02:26 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate View Post
No, it's not an irrelevnat comment at all.

You sit there from behind your computer calling a bunch of men wimps.

Hell I'd like to even see you call Desharnais a wimp to his face.

This is too funny, easily my favourite part about HFboards these days.

You rock my world.
Yeah I'm sorry, I didn't get the GM and Head Coach job, so all I have to tell what I have to say is y computer.

They'Re a bunch of wimps that get beaten up night after night.

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06-11-2012, 02:26 PM
  #193
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You know thre is nothing to talk about hockey-wise when a thread about goons , these glorified no-skills hockey players appear on this board...

What about MMA instead ?

Goons-era in hockey is OVER !

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06-11-2012, 02:30 PM
  #194
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You want a real goon who would probably love to play in Montreal:

Pierre-Luc Létourneau-Leblond.

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06-11-2012, 02:30 PM
  #195
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Jackman would be perfect for what we need.

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06-11-2012, 02:33 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by EnforcerWeNeed View Post
Yeah I'm sorry, I didn't get the GM and Head Coach job, so all I have to tell what I have to say is y computer.

They'Re a bunch of wimps that get beaten up night after night.
I'd tell you to stop embarrassing yourself but I find it all so amusing I really don't want you to.

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06-11-2012, 02:33 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Bryan Allen and Barret Jackmen while not as dominant fighters can take on most of the heavy weights and can play the game at a higher level than poor Matt.
Allen is a middleweight fighter, and Jackman is a fighter??

Matt isn't that poor. Watch the games and the scoresheet, don't jump straight away "Hey the guy has more PIMs than hockey games, he must be a goon!"

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06-11-2012, 02:33 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
You want a real goon who would probably love to play in Montreal:

Pierre-Luc Létourneau-Leblond.
Useless. The only place he should be playing is in the semi pro goon league

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06-11-2012, 02:33 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
You want a real goon who would probably love to play in Montreal:

Pierre-Luc Létourneau-Leblond.
Good heavyweight, but can't skate for *****. He's a Plan C for an enforcer.

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06-11-2012, 02:34 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Useless. The only place he should be playing is in the semi pro goon league
Or on pro-teams that have no enforcers and would be better off with PL3 than without him.

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