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What are we expecting from Jason Demers?

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Old
06-11-2012, 01:11 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I don't hate this.
I actually do hate those pairings. One, you're playing Justin Braun on the left side in tougher minutes. He hasn't had that much time on the left side as it was sporadic based on the team's needs at the time. It's partly why Demers sucked except his issues were compounded by himself and the coaching staff scratching him every time he had a bad game when veterans like Murray and White got the benefit of the doubt after consecutive games of sucking. Two, Vlasic with Boyle is just not utilizing Vlasic as well as they can.

I'm not ready to put together pairings just yet because I still think there's a lot more movement yet to come. If Suter signs here, we have to make him fit. It's reasonable to believe Murray will be traded. It's possible that Braun or Demers may get moved. There are too many variables at this point. Ideally, you want to keep Braun and Demers on their natural side. Since we have Stuart, if anyone should be asked to switch back to the left, it should be him. If we make no further moves on the blue line, I'd prefer...

Vlasic-Burns
Murray/Stuart-Boyle
Stuart/Murray-Braun/Demers

And the only reason I don't particularly care for that is that both Braun and Demers have reached a point where they need to be in the lineup every night regardless of their struggles. They don't get better sitting in the press box and it does more harm than good doing it at this stage. Best case scenario is that we trade Murray for a 2nd, sign Ryan Suter, and trade Dan Boyle for forward help.

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06-11-2012, 01:26 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I actually do hate those pairings. One, you're playing Justin Braun on the left side in tougher minutes. He hasn't had that much time on the left side as it was sporadic based on the team's needs at the time. It's partly why Demers sucked except his issues were compounded by himself and the coaching staff scratching him every time he had a bad game when veterans like Murray and White got the benefit of the doubt after consecutive games of sucking. Two, Vlasic with Boyle is just not utilizing Vlasic as well as they can.

I'm not ready to put together pairings just yet because I still think there's a lot more movement yet to come. If Suter signs here, we have to make him fit. It's reasonable to believe Murray will be traded. It's possible that Braun or Demers may get moved. There are too many variables at this point. Ideally, you want to keep Braun and Demers on their natural side. Since we have Stuart, if anyone should be asked to switch back to the left, it should be him. If we make no further moves on the blue line, I'd prefer...

Vlasic-Burns
Murray/Stuart-Boyle
Stuart/Murray-Braun/Demers

And the only reason I don't particularly care for that is that both Braun and Demers have reached a point where they need to be in the lineup every night regardless of their struggles. They don't get better sitting in the press box and it does more harm than good doing it at this stage. Best case scenario is that we trade Murray for a 2nd, sign Ryan Suter, and trade Dan Boyle for forward help.
I would prefer Vlasic and Burns to be together. Trust me, I post about that a lot. But Braun paired with one of Boyle or Burns is not something I would hate. He's competent defensively and is learning, plus having a guy that can really put up points would be helpful.

Obviously, the bolded is ideal. We'd be able to roll

Suter-Burns
Vlasic-Demers
Stuart-Braun

Plus whatever forward Boyle brings back. You're right that both Braun and Demers need to be regulars. Personally, I think Braun has adjusted well to the left side, and I really wouldn't mind seeing those two as a long-term pair.

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06-11-2012, 01:31 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I would prefer Vlasic and Burns to be together. Trust me, I post about that a lot. But Braun paired with one of Boyle or Burns is not something I would hate. He's competent defensively and is learning, plus having a guy that can really put up points would be helpful.

Obviously, the bolded is ideal. We'd be able to roll

Suter-Burns
Vlasic-Demers
Stuart-Braun

Plus whatever forward Boyle brings back. You're right that both Braun and Demers need to be regulars. Personally, I think Braun has adjusted well to the left side, and I really wouldn't mind seeing those two as a long-term pair.
Braun has shown very little on the left side in terms of adjusting. He didn't get that much time and what time he did get was very sheltered because he was opposite Demers and on the third pairing. Moving him up to the second pairing is a whole different animal especially if he's paired with Boyle because in that instance, he is not going to handle the puck much and a lot of Braun's game is skating with the puck. Burns is probably better for Braun than Boyle is because he seems more flexible with playing off of his partner than Boyle is.

However, if you ask one of Braun or Demers to switch full time and not the half-ass every-so-often left-side shifts that the coaching staff was doing this season, they have to be on the 3rd pair to start and work up. Neither of them have put in enough time in that spot to justify a second pairing job.

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06-11-2012, 01:38 AM
  #29
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Can you imagine, for a moment:

Suter-Boyle
Vlasic-Burns
Stuart-Demers
Braun

That might be the best defensive group to take the ice since Anaheim in 2007...

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06-11-2012, 01:39 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Can you imagine, for a moment:

Suter-Boyle
Vlasic-Burns
Stuart-Demers
Braun

That might be the best defensive group to take the ice since Anaheim in 2007...
I'd use

Suter - Burns
Vlasic - Boyle
Stuart - Demers/Braun

Boyle is an offensive vacuum. Suter would never touch the puck being paired with him.

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06-11-2012, 01:41 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Braun has shown very little on the left side in terms of adjusting. He didn't get that much time and what time he did get was very sheltered because he was opposite Demers and on the third pairing. Moving him up to the second pairing is a whole different animal especially if he's paired with Boyle because in that instance, he is not going to handle the puck much and a lot of Braun's game is skating with the puck. Burns is probably better for Braun than Boyle is because he seems more flexible with playing off of his partner than Boyle is.

However, if you ask one of Braun or Demers to switch full time and not the half-ass every-so-often left-side shifts that the coaching staff was doing this season, they have to be on the 3rd pair to start and work up. Neither of them have put in enough time in that spot to justify a second pairing job.
Braun was better on the left side. And they played enough together for the guys at Fear the Fin to think it was significant. The fact is, Demers played his best hockey last season when paired with Braun. I don't care that they were sheltered.

And Demers played very tough minutes last season and excelled. I think he's capable of it again. I think Demers has it in him to play back up to the second pairing.

I don't know... I just know that I want Murray out of here, and that I want both Demers and Braun in the lineup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Can you imagine, for a moment:

Suter-Boyle
Vlasic-Burns
Stuart-Demers
Braun

That might be the best defensive group to take the ice since Anaheim in 2007...
FFS don't make me think about these things.

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06-11-2012, 01:44 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Can you imagine, for a moment:

Suter-Boyle
Vlasic-Burns
Stuart-Demers
Braun

That might be the best defensive group to take the ice since Anaheim in 2007...
The only way that is plausible is if they avoid acquiring Rick Nash and cut about a million elsewhere like shipping out Niemi or letting Moore or Winnik walk for cheaper bottom six alternatives.

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06-11-2012, 01:49 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Braun was better on the left side. And they played enough together for the guys at Fear the Fin to think it was significant. The fact is, Demers played his best hockey last season when paired with Braun. I don't care that they were sheltered.

And Demers played very tough minutes last season and excelled. I think he's capable of it again. I think Demers has it in him to play back up to the second pairing.

I don't know... I just know that I want Murray out of here, and that I want both Demers and Braun in the lineup.
Braun was better than Demers on the left side but that's not saying much because Demers was awful last season and mis-utilized, imo. I disagree that they played enough because Colin White played 54 games which means at the most, the two played 28 games together (this doesn't account for Vandermeer who also played some D especially early). That's not enough time to legitimately go through and say a guy is ready to make a jump to tougher 2nd pair duties when it's not their natural side.

You know my thoughts on Demers. I believe he has Boyle potential. His maturity is really all that is holding him back, I feel. If he starts to discipline himself in the manner that Boyle does, he will get ahead very quickly as he has a higher ceiling than Braun and maybe even Boyle. He definitely has it in him to rebound and play second pairing but that has to be on his natural side to do it next year. It takes at least a year's worth of playing to get used to the opposite side, maybe longer at the level that Braun and Demers are at because they are still learning the NHL game in general and consistency is a huge concern for both of them.

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06-11-2012, 01:58 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Braun was better than Demers on the left side but that's not saying much because Demers was awful last season and mis-utilized, imo. I disagree that they played enough because Colin White played 54 games which means at the most, the two played 28 games together (this doesn't account for Vandermeer who also played some D especially early). That's not enough time to legitimately go through and say a guy is ready to make a jump to tougher 2nd pair duties when it's not their natural side.

You know my thoughts on Demers. I believe he has Boyle potential. His maturity is really all that is holding him back, I feel. If he starts to discipline himself in the manner that Boyle does, he will get ahead very quickly as he has a higher ceiling than Braun and maybe even Boyle. He definitely has it in him to rebound and play second pairing but that has to be on his natural side to do it next year. It takes at least a year's worth of playing to get used to the opposite side, maybe longer at the level that Braun and Demers are at because they are still learning the NHL game in general and consistency is a huge concern for both of them.
We can agree to disagree about Braun-Demers, not particularly interesting to me at the moment.

As far as Demers and how he compares to Boyle, it's an easy diagnosis: Demers doesn't have the killer instinct that Boyle has, that fiery passion and that want to win. Hopefully he gets it as he matures, like you say. But he has the raw talent. I like him much more than Braun, even though Braun is probably the better of the two at the time. Braun has limited upside. Demers has a ton. But he needs to hunker down, get in shape, learn to think the game, and develop a passion to play. Right now it seems like he's just goofing around. Couture is the same age and he has a funny side, but you can see right away how mature he is and how dedicated to playing he is. I remember the first video interview he did after signing his extension, and it just struck me how he said every thing that I wanted him to say; that he had a great job, that he took a discount because he knew that was a sacrifice he was willing to make for the benefit of the team at large, and how he wanted to be a part of something special. I can only hope Demers responds the same way after a disappointing season.

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06-11-2012, 02:07 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I can only hope Demers responds the same way after a disappointing season.



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06-11-2012, 03:24 AM
  #36
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They moved Demers back to the right and Braun on the left later in the season (and in the playoffs), and he still didn't look great (while Braun didn't look out of place). He just had a horrible off-season and a poor start that probably killed his confidence. I expect him to be better next season considering it's a contract year.

Or maybe he just isn't that good. He just looked great compared to Huskins and Wallin.
According to this, Braun did not play on the left all season long (or at least not long enough to show up): http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

Also according to their stats Demers played on the left for a bit over 12% of the ice-time among the defense, and on the right for less than 9%. I'm not saying it was the sole cause, but it was certainly an issue.

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06-11-2012, 03:28 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
According to this, Braun did not play on the left all season long (or at least not long enough to show up): http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

Also according to their stats Demers played on the left for a bit over 12% of the ice-time among the defense, and on the right for less than 9%. I'm not saying it was the sole cause, but it was certainly an issue.
From what I remember, Braun played a lot as LD after the first half of the season. And that website can't be all that accurate considering it says Boyle played LD for 20%+ of the season EV.

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06-11-2012, 03:31 AM
  #38
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From what I remember, Braun played a lot as LD after the first half of the season. And that website can't be all that accurate considering it says Boyle played LD for 20%+ of the season.
Hehehe, you're right. I totally missed that on Boyle. I haven't used the site much, as I only came across it after Dobbers started charging and someone else posted a link.

Oh well, I have no idea what the org is going to do. Whatever it is, I expect I won't like it (other than bringing Stuart back, although I would have preferred Carle back over Stuart).

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06-11-2012, 03:33 AM
  #39
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Demers is sat for a high-ankle sprain? And I spoke to Brodie before game 3 of the WCF and he seemed like Demers was ready to go, but then Demers never played.
Ever have a high ankle sprain? You might as well break it, cause it will take the same amount of time to heal. Actually the hockey probably prevented a break. I have gotten them while playing hockey, believe me you can not do anything right for about a month, let alone 2 weeks. It took me close to 3 months to not feel any pain while walking.

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06-11-2012, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Can you imagine, for a moment:

Suter-Boyle
Vlasic-Burns
Stuart-Demers
Braun

That might be the best defensive group to take the ice since Anaheim in 2007...
What if Wilson threw the bank at Suter and then shipped out Vlasic for a hefty return of prospects/picks/players?

Suter/Burns
Stuart/Boyle
Murray/Demers
Braun

Too Bold?

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06-11-2012, 03:41 AM
  #41
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(other than bringing Stuart back, although I would have preferred Carle back over Stuart).
I'd like both, but getting Stuart was a lot more reasonable. Everyone know San Jose was his first choice (out of a very limited number of teams). Carle will most likely just go to whoever pays him the most. I like him, but I don't $5 million like him.

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06-11-2012, 09:57 AM
  #42
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According to this, Braun did not play on the left all season long (or at least not long enough to show up): http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-com...gametype=ALL#A

Also according to their stats Demers played on the left for a bit over 12% of the ice-time among the defense, and on the right for less than 9%. I'm not saying it was the sole cause, but it was certainly an issue.
LWL doesn't keep track of which side who players. Otherwise, Vlasic played on the right all year with Boyle.

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06-11-2012, 11:12 AM
  #43
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From what I remember, Braun played a lot as LD after the first half of the season. And that website can't be all that accurate considering it says Boyle played LD for 20%+ of the season EV.
Braun played a lot of LD with Boyle. Primarily towards the end of the season when the Sharks were trailing. They would slice and dice minutes on Murray and White. If it recorded Boyle as LD in that situation . . . oh well.

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06-11-2012, 11:22 AM
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I noticed Braun playing on the left side with Boyle a lot during the end of last season. He seemed to look really good out there as well, especially 4on4 and PP. Braun might be our fastest skater.

I think Demers struggled because he kept getting scratched/pulled from the lineup. No one can really get it going if they don't get the ice time.

I'm not a fan of our coaching staff scratching young players that have bad games or juggling the lines so often. Sometimes you gotta let the players play through the hard times and find a way to get it going.

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06-11-2012, 11:38 AM
  #45
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I'm expecting Demers (or Braun) to be a bargaining chip in acquiring a top-6 forward. Teams are always looking for a right handed PMD to fill out their second or third pairings. Currently San Jose has four (Boyle, Burns, Braun, and Demers). As long as Demers (or Braun) come #3 (behind Boyle and Burns) in the depth chart, he'll never fully be utilized. It's best to move Demers (or Braun) so the team can improve in other areas, and so he can have a meatier role somewhere else.
I agree but I hope we don't see a Nash type trade. I would prefer to see the Sharks make a choice between Braun and Demers. Then trade the other one for a young scoring winger who can contribute now, and has some upside.

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06-11-2012, 11:44 AM
  #46
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I noticed Braun playing on the left side with Boyle a lot during the end of last season. He seemed to look really good out there as well, especially 4on4 and PP. Braun might be our fastest skater.

I think Demers struggled because he kept getting scratched/pulled from the lineup. No one can really get it going if they don't get the ice time.

I'm not a fan of our coaching staff scratching young players that have bad games or juggling the lines so often. Sometimes you gotta let the players play through the hard times and find a way to get it going.
So plenty of that with White last year. And a fair bit with Handzus too.

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06-11-2012, 11:45 AM
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So plenty of that with White last year. And a fair bit with Handzus too.
I'm not talking about players we know suck.

I'm talking about our young players we are trying to develop.

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06-11-2012, 11:52 AM
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I'm not talking about players we know suck.

I'm talking about our young players we are trying to develop.
I am not fan of our coaching staff either but what I said was in response to:

Quote:
Sometimes you gotta let the players play through the hard times and find a way to get it going.
He did that with Zus and White. TMac has shown us that he is pretty stubborn and linear with his thinking. Its all on DW to field a team that has enough skill to win us the cup. I do not expect much from TMac.

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06-11-2012, 12:02 PM
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I am not fan of our coaching staff either but what I said was in response to:



He did that with Zus and White. TMac has shown us that he is pretty stubborn and linear with his thinking. Its all on DW to field a team that has enough skill to win us the cup. I do not expect much from TMac.
What I was saying though is he should have done that with Demers and not White.

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06-11-2012, 02:27 PM
  #50
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I expect a Kris Letang type defenseman in a few years. If not then Jason Demers will due just fine as long as he improves.

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