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2013 Draft- Toronto Maple Leafs

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Old
06-10-2012, 11:20 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Its the "Draft Schmaft" Murphy' Leafs destiny law that seals Leafs fate, every time..

Similar to the #4 overall pick in the 1997 draft traded away by Leafs and was used to select goalie Roberto Luongo, who now many fans desire a mere 15 years later to turn the teams fortunes around. Simply keeping and drafting Luongo would have had him here a decade and half earlier.

How about needing Tom Kurvers so badly that Leafs dealt away the pick that was used to draft Norris Trophy winning dman Scott Neidermayer #3 overall in 1991, and that was actual a good outcome as Leafs made more bad trades mid season to avoid the pick being #1 overall and Eric Lindros instead.

Boston wins a Stanley Cup and yet still has a top 10 ranked prospect pool, because Leafs felt the need to prop up another organization with our picks rather than build through the draft themselves due to GM impatience and Murphy's law taking over and doing the rest taking the Leafs to the bottom of the league.

The 2012 and 2013 1st round picks sit precariously now in jeopardy as Leafs head into summer looking for trades to bolster the struggle team for next year. Then we can all sit back and hear the GM echo out those infamous words again that "July 1st is our entry draft" for Leaf Nation.

Rinse repeat.. "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
A sports team has made a bad trade in its 95 years of existence?



Must be terrible now.

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06-11-2012, 04:59 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Its the "Draft Schmaft" Murphy' Leafs destiny law that seals Leafs fate, every time..

Similar to the #4 overall pick in the 1997 draft traded away by Leafs and was used to select goalie Roberto Luongo, who now many fans desire a mere 15 years later to turn the teams fortunes around. Simply keeping and drafting Luongo would have had him here a decade and half earlier.

How about needing Tom Kurvers so badly that Leafs dealt away the pick that was used to draft Norris Trophy winning dman Scott Neidermayer #3 overall in 1991, and that was actual a good outcome as Leafs made more bad trades mid season to avoid the pick being #1 overall and Eric Lindros instead.

Boston wins a Stanley Cup and yet still has a top 10 ranked prospect pool, because Leafs felt the need to prop up another organization with our picks rather than build through the draft themselves due to GM impatience and Murphy's law taking over and doing the rest taking the Leafs to the bottom of the league.

The 2012 and 2013 1st round picks sit precariously now in jeopardy as Leafs head into summer looking for trades to bolster the struggle team for next year. Then we can all sit back and hear the GM echo out those infamous words again that "July 1st is our entry draft" for Leaf Nation.

Rinse repeat.. "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
I know you view the team through s**t coloured glasses because they had the audacity to take a risk in getting one of the leagues elite young players ... but I would bet money that they keep the pick this year.

Aside from the Kessel deal - which was an exception based on the talent of the player available combined with the odds that any pick outside of the top 2 would have made it a more even trade, Burke has still drafted in the first round 3 times in the past 3 years, and has added another 3 first round picked players from the past 4 drafts.

The Leafs have also drafted more players in Burkes tenure than almost any other team in the league.

You may whine about the players drafted, and your s**t coloured glasses may disparage the players we've selected - but the "Draft Smaft" argument that you bring out daily actually doesn't fly. sorry.

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06-11-2012, 06:30 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
How about we play and earn the 30th overall pick.
Or we could win the lottery and keep our dignity

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06-11-2012, 11:51 AM
  #29
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Let's just hope theres a season next year. I will go mad and not know what to do with myself if theres another lock out.
Learn a musical instrument.

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06-11-2012, 11:58 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Tnk 4 Frk 2012 View Post
Anyways, Nathan Mackinnon would look good as our #1 centre.
Thanks for starting a new thread to tell us that.

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06-11-2012, 12:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
A sports team has made a bad trade in its 95 years of existence?



Must be terrible now.
Not only that but Floyd Smith is still influencing Leafs decisions after being out of the league for 20 years.

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06-11-2012, 12:49 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JKsilverstick View Post
A sports team has made a bad trade in its 95 years of existence?



Must be terrible now.
It's ok to make a mistake and learn from it. Making a mistake and repeating it constantly is the problem he has.

Never, EVER trade a 1st Rd pick a year in advance is the least you should be doing. I would only trade one if I was a top 8 team in the league and guaranteed a playoff spot and needed one more piece to push for a cup run.

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06-11-2012, 01:00 PM
  #33
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Good lord. So the goal is to "knock on wood" miss an entire year so the team gets an extra 5 % chance of drafting a player who played pretty good as a 17 year old?

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06-11-2012, 03:31 PM
  #34
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Good lord. So the goal is to "knock on wood" miss an entire year so the team gets an extra 5 % chance of drafting a player who played pretty good as a 17 year old?
Actually the knock on wood was for playing the season next year the question was a hypothetical one on what the lottery would look like if there was no season a la 2005. I'd cringe on the fact of another lockout.

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06-11-2012, 03:51 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Smif View Post
It's ok to make a mistake and learn from it. Making a mistake and repeating it constantly is the problem he has.

Never, EVER trade a 1st Rd pick a year in advance is the least you should be doing. I would only trade one if I was a top 8 team in the league and guaranteed a playoff spot and needed one more piece to push for a cup run.
It's not even certain if it is a mistake, but that is why you're not a GM. If the opportunity to improve your club comes along in the form of one of if not the highest value player to become available for trade since the lockout, you take it. You don't throw it away because of a miniscule percentage chance that you may be on the losing side of that trade years later.

It was much more likely that the trade ended up like the Colorado Varlamov trade, only we would end up with a player with 10 times the value. We would all be bowing down to Burke.

Also, even if we say it was a mistake, how can you say he didn't learn from it? How is he "constantly repeating it"? What else has he done under that same philosophy?

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06-11-2012, 04:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
My memory of the last draft lottery didn't actually give the Pens great odds. Nor did anyone else have great odds. Everyone was a longshot, but someone had to win.

Lottery



Pens had a 3 in 48 chance of being the winning ball.
I remember Bettman and his croneys decided they would do a "dry run" of the process to see "how it worked". Do we remember who won the "dry run"?.........the Leafs, only for Bettman to say "Oh, ok thats how it will work. Ok.

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06-11-2012, 05:36 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Smif View Post
It's ok to make a mistake and learn from it. Making a mistake and repeating it constantly is the problem he has.

Never, EVER trade a 1st Rd pick a year in advance is the least you should be doing. I would only trade one if I was a top 8 team in the league and guaranteed a playoff spot and needed one more piece to push for a cup run.
MLSE should just put sanctions on the GM that prohibits them from trading any further 1st round picks, particularly future ones not yet determined as to draft position. Trading our 2013 1st rounder for instant help today, would qualify as one of those.

Burke ended up trading the 2nd overall (tossed in a 9th and 32nd overall picks to boot) in order to move down to acquire the 5th overall selected player (from a few drafts earlier).

That would be the equivalent of Burke offering our 5th overall, for Columbus 2nd + 32 overall this year, and Jackets 1st rounder in 2013.

As one can see dealing future picks can make a bad situation even worse once the results are in..

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06-11-2012, 05:44 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
MLSE should just put sanctions on the GM that prohibits them from trading any further 1st round picks, particularly future ones not yet determined as to draft position. Trading our 2013 1st rounder for instant help today, would qualify as one of those.

Burke ended up trading the 2nd overall (tossed in a 9th and 32nd overall picks to boot) in order to move down to acquire the 5th overall selected player (from a few drafts earlier).

That would be the equivalent of Burke offering our 5th overall, for Columbus 2nd + 32 overall this year, and Jackets 1st rounder in 2013.

As one can see dealing future picks can make a bad situation even worse once the results are in..
Pretty interesting logic. So if the Leafs trade this year's first and next year's for Claude Giroux chosen 22nd overall they would lose the trade? In the fantasy world where the Flyers wouldn't laugh it off, of course.

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06-11-2012, 06:23 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
MLSE should just put sanctions on the GM that prohibits them from trading any further 1st round picks, particularly future ones not yet determined as to draft position. Trading our 2013 1st rounder for instant help today, would qualify as one of those.

Burke ended up trading the 2nd overall (tossed in a 9th and 32nd overall picks to boot) in order to move down to acquire the 5th overall selected player (from a few drafts earlier).

That would be the equivalent of Burke offering our 5th overall, for Columbus 2nd + 32 overall this year, and Jackets 1st rounder in 2013.

As one can see dealing future picks can make a bad situation even worse once the results are in..
LOL, Mess ... that's great. It must be that Burke is going to trade up to get both the second AND third overall picks ... because if he did it once in special circumstances, it must mean it's what he's going to do EVERY year!!

The whole Kessel deal thing is getting old. Aside from that one deal, Burke has not shown one ounce of a desire to sacrifice anything of the future for the "quick fix" that you and others go on, and on, and on about. Pretty much every move he's made, some good, some great, and some crap - has been to get younger, acquire quality (Lupul, Gardiner, Phaneuf, Colborne, Kessel - admittedly some has worked out better than others, and people can debate the quality all they want.), and to bring in fillers on short term deals to buy the kids time to properly develop.

Somehow based on one trade, there is this whole "quick fix" arguement. The argument is actually about Kessel. If Kessel played centre, or was bigger (See Getzlaf) no one would say a word. Unfortunately, he's just an elite talent winger for whom we took a risk and ended up slightly overpaying.

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06-11-2012, 07:03 PM
  #40
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another senario

If you were a GM would you trade Stalberg and Versteeg for the 5th over-all this year.....wouldn't mind having those two on the roster now.

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06-11-2012, 07:56 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
MLSE should just put sanctions on the GM that prohibits them from trading any further 1st round picks, particularly future ones not yet determined as to draft position. Trading our 2013 1st rounder for instant help today, would qualify as one of those.

Burke ended up trading the 2nd overall (tossed in a 9th and 32nd overall picks to boot) in order to move down to acquire the 5th overall selected player (from a few drafts earlier).

That would be the equivalent of Burke offering our 5th overall, for Columbus 2nd + 32 overall this year, and Jackets 1st rounder in 2013.

As one can see dealing future picks can make a bad situation even worse once the results are in..
Well there, by your logic, Burke's moves have been AMAZING! He signed a 5th overall, a 7th overall, and a 21st overall for free in FA! He traded a 75th overall for a 7th overall and a 17th overall. He traded a a bunch of mid-low picks for the 9th overall. He traded a 204th overall for a 16th overall, a 30th overall and a 60th overall. And boy, you must think that our 5th overall defenceman should be able to fetch on a ton on the open market, right? Add in our 7th overall prospect and we're golden!

P.S. Sidney Crosby became available, fully healthy, and all Pittsburgh wants is our first round pick next year. Oh, look at that, too bad you have unnecessarily restricted our President and GM, putting him at a distinct disadvantage compared to his colleagues, and now we can't make a deal.

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06-11-2012, 07:59 PM
  #42
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The best part is, we don't need first overall. This draft is full of top end forwards. If only this draft were this year, at 5 we would be assured a great forward. Mackinnon, Monhanan, Lazar, Duclair, Shinkaruk, Drouin, Barkov all look amazing.
I remember when Frk was a can't miss guy.

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06-11-2012, 08:08 PM
  #43
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I remember when Frk was a can't miss guy.
A year in advance, everyone seems amazing.

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06-11-2012, 08:11 PM
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A thread called 2013 NHL draft, and what do we have... more whining about the past.

No surprise who took the discussion that way........ again.

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06-11-2012, 09:09 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by smoke meat pete View Post
My memory of the last draft lottery didn't actually give the Pens great odds. Nor did anyone else have great odds. Everyone was a longshot, but someone had to win.

Lottery



Pens had a 3 in 48 chance of being the winning ball.
That's not how it worked. It was a reverse draw. Meaning the set the draft order from number 30 up to number 1.

For a team to be slotted into a draft position its last ball had to be drawn out of the drum. That meant the teams with multiple balls in the drum had the best odds of getting to the top.

The draw went like this: the NHL would draw a ball out for position number 30. If a team with more than one ball was draw in that position that ball was discarded and another was chosen.

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06-11-2012, 09:20 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
I'd rather have a hockey season.
The Leafs have finished in the bottom 5 draft lottery position 2 of the past 3 years based on playing the season.

So one has to wonder which has the better Leafs odds of drafting top 5 in 2013, by playing or not playing next year?.

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06-11-2012, 10:09 PM
  #47
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When is Valeri Nichuskin eligible

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06-11-2012, 10:21 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
That's not how it worked. It was a reverse draw. Meaning the set the draft order from number 30 up to number 1.

For a team to be slotted into a draft position its last ball had to be drawn out of the drum. That meant the teams with multiple balls in the drum had the best odds of getting to the top.

The draw went like this: the NHL would draw a ball out for position number 30. If a team with more than one ball was draw in that position that ball was discarded and another was chosen.
I don't think they went through with the reverse lottery idea. There was some rumblings of it happening because they could air the whole process, but in the end they decided on a straight draw behind closed doors with an "unveiling" that was televised.

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06-11-2012, 10:22 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
That's not how it worked. It was a reverse draw. Meaning the set the draft order from number 30 up to number 1.

For a team to be slotted into a draft position its last ball had to be drawn out of the drum. That meant the teams with multiple balls in the drum had the best odds of getting to the top.

The draw went like this: the NHL would draw a ball out for position number 30. If a team with more than one ball was draw in that position that ball was discarded and another was chosen.
I might be off but I remember that Patrick said he couldn't look and then the first ball came out and it was there's number giving them first overall and all the representatives in the room to witness the draw was congratulating him.

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06-12-2012, 10:12 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
That's not how it worked. It was a reverse draw. Meaning the set the draft order from number 30 up to number 1.

For a team to be slotted into a draft position its last ball had to be drawn out of the drum. That meant the teams with multiple balls in the drum had the best odds of getting to the top.

The draw went like this: the NHL would draw a ball out for position number 30. If a team with more than one ball was draw in that position that ball was discarded and another was chosen.
Not according to the NHL itself:
Quote:
The Draft Drawing, a weighted lottery system, was used to determine the order of selection for all seven rounds of the Entry Draft. Under the weighted lottery system, the clubs that neither qualified for the Stanley Cup Playoffs in each of the 2001-02, 2002-03 and 2003-04 seasons, nor were awarded the first overall selection in each of the 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 Entry Drafts, had the greatest chance of receiving the first overall selection, 6.3 per cent. These clubs were the Penguins, Buffalo Sabres, Columbus Blue Jackets and New York Rangers.

Ten clubs met one of the seven criteria listed above and had a 4.2% chance of winning the Drawing, while the remaining 16 clubs met more than one of the criteria and had a 2.1% chance.

Forty-eight balls, numbered one through 48, were placed in a lottery machine. Three ball numbers were randomly assigned to each the Penguins, Sabres, Blue Jackets and Rangers; two ball numbers were assigned to the 10 clubs with a 4.2% chance; and one ball number was assigned to the 16 clubs with a 2.1% chance. The first ball expelled determined the winner of the first overall draft pick and it had been assigned to the Penguins.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26401

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