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Off-Season Discussion Part V (Cap info in 1st post)

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Old
06-17-2012, 09:53 PM
  #901
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
Anyone else want to see Arron Asham back in a Penguins jersey next year? Always thought he was a perfect fit for the Bylsma system. Gritty enforcer that forechecks and seems to be a good fit for the locker room.

If not him, then who would play the enforcer role on this team?
Engelland.

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06-17-2012, 09:55 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Yeah, it'd be nice to bring in a more physical complement to flesh out the top 6 if we did sign Boyes.



I think Geno needs a physical, hardhat type guy like Kunitz opposite Neal to make the most of that line.
ya that's what I meant. Assuming we already had that kind of guy for Geno and Neal, what was his thoughts on a guy like Whitney. He didn't seem to want Boyes with Sid and Kunitz because he wants someone bigger. Whitney isn't big, but he's good enough that I don't care. If we get Whitney I have pretty much no interest in Boyes.

I've said it a few times. I think we only need two players to make this line-up fall perfectly in place.
1. A big tough mucker for Geno's LW so Kunitz can go back with Sid.
2. Any wing better than Dupuis play with Sid and Kunitz to push Dupuis to the third line. I think Sid and Kunitz are rounded enough that they don't as specific a player as Geno and Neal do. Obviously, I hope he's as good as possible. I would love Whitney. I would accept Boyes.

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06-17-2012, 09:56 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I agree. I actually said I'd only want Boyes as a backup plan kind of option. He'd be better than not signing anybody for that spot though. As far as the averaged sized scorers go, what would you think about Whitney? Assuming we had that LW for Geno which is the much more important spot to fill in my opinion. Kunitz needs to be back with Sid.

As far as post-season, Boyes actually helps there. He saves us enough cap that we could afford pretty much any player available cap-wise.
If we can sign Whitney, I'd do it without thinking twice. He's that second tier of offensive creativity behind Sid/Geno, be a huge upgrade over Sully on the PP and it won't cost us any assets. Move some of our expendable assets like Martin/TK for a LW for Geno and we're good to go.

Cooke/Tangradi/Dupuis all fit with how Staal likes to play. If we can resign him, then we're a much more dangerous team than last season up front. And by taking Martin out of the lineup, allowing our youth a full regular season to take on his minutes and reuniting Orpik/Letang, we're better for it.

That's a pretty realistic scenario IMO.

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06-17-2012, 09:57 PM
  #904
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I'd rather stick with Sully than bring in Boyes. He would be cheaper and we've already seen how he improves our power play where Boyes would be a complete unknown. I really hope Shero can land Whitney this time though as he'd be a big upgrade on either of them.

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06-17-2012, 10:00 PM
  #905
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I'd rather stick with Sully than bring in Boyes. He would be cheaper and we've already seen how he improves our power play where Boyes would be a complete unknown. I really hope Shero can land Whitney this time though as he'd be a big upgrade on either of them.
Ray Whitney is a legit 1st line talent coming off one of his best NHL seasons to date. Sully is a 3rd line forward who can help run a PP.

I'd give Whitney the extra 2-2.5 mil especially if the cap goes up.

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06-17-2012, 10:02 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
If we can sign Whitney, I'd do it without thinking twice. He's that second tier of offensive creativity behind Sid/Geno, be a huge upgrade over Sully on the PP and it won't cost us any assets. Move some of our expendable assets like Martin/TK/ for a LW for Geno and we're good to go.

Cooke/Tangradi/Dupuis all fit with how Staal likes to play. If we can resign him, then we're a much more dangerous team than last season up front. And by taking Martin out of the lineup, allowing our youth a full regular season to take on his minutes and reuniting Orpik/Letang, we're better for it.

That's a pretty realistic scenario IMO.
I agree. It sounds like a lot asking for two good top 6 wings. But they don't need to be world beaters. Just better than Pascal Dupuis. And we should be willing to move assets to do it, particularly from our D. Dupuis being on the third line makes it dangerous and knowing that if someone gets hurt we have Dupuis ready to bump up to the top 6 is great. He is pretty much a perfect 3rd line wing.

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06-17-2012, 10:03 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Ray Whitney is a legit 1st line talent coming off one of his best NHL seasons to date. Sully is a 3rd line forward who can help run a PP.

I'd give Whitney the extra 2-2.5 mil especially if the cap goes up.
I agree, I would like Whitney, I think he would be an awesome fit for the Pens and for Crosby.

But, if he wants to stay in Phoenix, Sullivan is probably the way to go as free agents are concerned, Shero can always look to the trade market for a top 6 winger.

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06-17-2012, 10:04 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
I'd rather stick with Sully than bring in Boyes. He would be cheaper and we've already seen how he improves our power play where Boyes would be a complete unknown. I really hope Shero can land Whitney this time though as he'd be a big upgrade on either of them.

TooToo would look good on the Pens 4th line.
If Calgary decides to enter a rebuild then this might be the perfect time to get an Iginla. Chance of that is slim but I love how the guy plays and he has a big right shot.

I would be more than happy with Whitney.

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06-17-2012, 10:05 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I agree. It sounds like a lot asking for two good top 6 wings. But they don't need to be world beaters. Just better than Pascal Dupuis. And we should be willing to move assets to do it, particularly from our D.
Resigning Staal, signing Whitney, moving Martin and bringing in a top 6 gritty LW for Geno isn't a slam dunk. But it sure isn't that far fetched.

An aggressive GM that wants to ice the best lineup possible would think about that scenario long and hard.

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06-17-2012, 10:05 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I agree, I would like Whitney, I think he would be an awesome fit for the Pens and for Crosby.

But, if he wants to stay in Phoenix, Sullivan is probably the way to go as free agents are concerned, Shero can always look to the trade market for a top 6 winger.
If Sully is the best FA we can get I hope we make trades. Not that I don't like Sullivan, but I think we can do better. I'd take him back as a plan C if we can't get Whitney or make a trade though. Better than nothing and we'd have the cap space to upgrade that spot at the deadline.

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06-17-2012, 10:05 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Ray Whitney is a legit 1st line talent coming off one of his best NHL seasons to date. Sully is a 3rd line forward who can help run a PP.

I'd give Whitney the extra 2-2.5 mil especially if the cap goes up.
Totally agree and I would have quoted your post if it was there before I started mine haha.

Have there been any rumors on what Whitney is planning doing this offseason?

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06-17-2012, 10:09 PM
  #912
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Tootoo is gonna cost around 2 mil more than likely. I'd rather spend that on overpaying for Whitney if need be (1-2 year deal). Acquire a guy with some size for the top 6 via trade. And push everyone down the lineup.

Cooke/Dupuis/Staal/Tangradi/Vitale/Adams/Asham is more than enough grit for the bottom six. If we have the cap room and someone is willing to sign on the cheap, then great.

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06-17-2012, 10:09 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
Totally agree and I would have quoted your post if it was there before I started mine haha.

Have there been any rumors on what Whitney is planning doing this offseason?
moving to Pittsburgh in preparation for the offer from Shero

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Tootoo is gonna cost around 2 mil more than likely. I'd rather spend that on overpaying for Whitney if need be (1-2 year deal). Acquire a guy with some size for the top 6 via trade. And push everyone down the lineup.

Cooke/Dupuis/Staal/Tangradi/Vitale/Adams/Asham is more than enough grit for the bottom six. If we have the cap room and someone is willing to sign on the cheap, then great.
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06-17-2012, 10:10 PM
  #914
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Totally agree and I would have quoted your post if it was there before I started mine haha.

Have there been any rumors on what Whitney is planning doing this offseason?
I checked out Phoenix's board awhile back. A couple of their vet posters were saying it's around 50/50 that he comes back. Highly unlikely if the ownership situation isn't settled. Likely if it is.

I'd think Shero would be all over signing Whitney if he's available.

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06-17-2012, 10:14 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I checked out Phoenix's board awhile back. A couple of their vet posters were saying it's around 50/50 that he comes back. Highly unlikely if the ownership situation isn't settled. Likely if it is.

I'd think Shero would be all over signing Whitney if he's available.
the problem is he won't be the only one.

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06-17-2012, 10:16 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I don't like him as anything but a backup backup plan if we can't get anybody we want or Sully. I wouldn't want both him and Sully for sure. If we sign two top 6 guys and he's the second one, maybe I can see it. But he is not the answer to our top 6 hole.
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If we bring in Boyes, I really think we need to bring in someone else too. For how cheap he'll likely be there's really no good reason not to. Boyes would be a lot easier to swallow as a piece of our top 6 upgrade than he would as the whole thing. Martin for Malone or something along those lines would still be nice. The nice thing of Boyes is that he'd be cheap. We could have quite a bit of cap space left over. Enough to bring in a really good deadline guy or two. I'm talking like, Jarome Iginla cap space at the deadline.
I agree with you, that in the ideal situation we would bring in two guys. But I am also a realist. The likely hood of Shero both being able to or being willing to use assets to make a trade for a 2nd guy in this even more small market than last year is unlikely. I for one also proposed the Martin/Malone swap. The trade makes complete sense especially when balanced out with one of a player and pick added on each side. The trade just makes too much sense. Unfortunately rarely do the trades that make the most sense actually happen... Here is my post for the Martin/Malone swap...

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On the trade board I posted a Martin and Malone trade. Not sure if it would happen, but it seems fair for all involved. Players, teams, etc...

We all have Martin on a hit list around here, but he is a good defense man just not in our system. Going to a team that plays a style more to his play would most likely be welcomed by him, no one would willingly want to play in a system that bring out their weaknesses and not their strengths. Also on the other end, even though Malone had stated in the media he enjoys playing and living in Tampa, he'd most likely waive to come home and play in Pittsburgh again.

The Tampa fans have said they need to fill multiple roster spots on the back end. So I proposed adding Bortuzzo to the mix. He is stuck in a log jam on our back end in terms of prospects, and has really done all he can in terms of development in the minors. He is an RFA so he can't go anywhere unless we trade him, but his development can't go much further in the minors at this point so it could be advantageous to get a pick for him. So add him in for a pick coming our way, preferably a 3rd. And Tampa gets two roster spots filled on their roster. A top 4 with Martin and a bottom 2 with Borts.

To Pittsburgh:
Ryan Malone
3rd Rounder

To Tampa:
Paul Martin
Robert Bortuzzo

Seems like a fair deal to me, just my two cents though.

Then we end up with our top 6 as...

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Malone - Malkin - Neal

I like that a lot. But like I said my two cents, take it or leave it for what it is.
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Originally Posted by Aarow View Post
IMO, Dupuis is not a top 6 player. I would rather try and land E. Kane, Whiteny, or someone like that... Dupuis is a great 3rd line player on this team.
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
If we don't land Whitney, Boyes would be a great guy to take a flier on. RH shot with a history of production, 30 years old, and only a year removed from scoring 55 points.
Whitney or Doan (not mentioned but the same thing applies because they have made the same statements), Whitney and Doan have set up shop in Arizona. Whitney quoted in articles I have seen posted by Coyotes fans, ones unfortunately I do not have bookmarked but I have read in posts, say he wants to finish his career and retire in the Desert. He has moved his family there and basically set up shop there.

So the likelyhood of getting Whitney is very slim if to none. Also Doan has said that he will not leave the organization unless they were to relocate. The problem with the Coyotes leaving the desert seems to be ending so no Doan.

As to the Dupuis statements no, of coarse not he is not a ideal top 6 solution, he ideally is a 3rd wheel like he was on the Sid/Hossa line or as the main winger on a 3rd line. But unfortunately, realistacally we are probably only going to get one winger in this free agent market. So he will most likely be penciled into our top 6 as he plays well with Crosby but not well with Malkin. So its basically pair him with Crosby or pair him with Staal.

So lets say that the Martin/Malkin swap goes through... The lines will most likely be...

Malone - Malkin - Neal
Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis

If the Boyes signing went through, it would most likely be...

Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis - Crosby - Boyes

If both went though... I would more than welcome it. But last time we brought in two key contracts (other than Neal) what both by free agent signings, and that was on defense. The forward market is too thin to do so this year. If it happened I would gladly welcome these lines though...

Malone - Malkin - Neal
Kunitz - Crosby - Boyes

---

The Kane situation is interesting, but WPG holds the cards, it is unlikely that Kane would pull a Turris and just not sign anything. Even if the rumors are true that he does not want to play there, which are impossible to prove, acquiring him would be tricky.

It would take a trade built around Staal, or one of Despres and Morrow... Those are the only 3 players really in our pool or roster I can see a trade happening in reality with. Are those assets best used in acquiring him? Not sure. Can he even be acquired, even harder to tell...

So I am simply leaving Kane in the back of my mind in options for the offseason.

But hey, this is just all me spit balling.

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06-17-2012, 10:17 PM
  #917
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IIRC, we had to make a low-ball offer the last time Whitney was a UFA after signing Michalek and Martin. Is that accurate? I think he was interested in us nonetheless.

I'm sure he's going to be very interested and of a higher priority this time around. As many of you have said - he's perfect for this team.

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06-17-2012, 10:20 PM
  #918
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the problem is he won't be the only one.
He was close to coming here not so long ago. Sid's linemates have only gotten worse since then. And if the rumors were true, Whitney wanted to play with Sid. We shall see.

I'm completely sold on that offseason scenario though.

Whitney/Crosby/Kunitz would be an absolute **** to handle with their speed and creativity off the rush.

Malone/Malkin/Neal would be unreal on the cycle. So much size.

Cooke/Staal/Dupuis. Enough said.

Tangradi/Vitale/Adams/Asham. Fine with me.

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06-17-2012, 10:22 PM
  #919
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
IIRC, we had to make a low-ball offer the last time Whitney was a UFA after signing Michalek and Martin. Is that accurate? I think he was interested in us nonetheless.

I'm sure he's going to be very interested and of a higher priority this time around. As many of you have said - he's perfect for this team.
Agreed. With the cap going up and the possibility of shedding some serious salary, I hope Shero goes hard after him. Sign him to 2 years if need be. Geno and Tanger's extensions don't kick in until after that, we'll be fine.

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06-17-2012, 10:26 PM
  #920
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Agreed. With the cap going up and the possibility of shedding some serious salary, I hope Shero goes hard after him. Sign him to 2 years if need be. Geno and Tanger's extensions don't kick in until after that, we'll be fine.
Yep. And honestly I'm perfectly fine going 2 years on him. He shouldn't have to settle for 1 from anyone, IMO. Someone may even offer him 3.

77 points in 82 games shows huge production and durability. Missed 9 games the last 4 years.

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06-17-2012, 10:27 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by Dr Frasier Crane View Post
IIRC, we had to make a low-ball offer the last time Whitney was a UFA after signing Michalek and Martin. Is that accurate? I think he was interested in us nonetheless.

I'm sure he's going to be very interested and of a higher priority this time around. As many of you have said - he's perfect for this team.
Yeah, we had about 2 million in cap space at the time (After signing M&M). I remember Dreger or Mckenzie tweeting the Penguins were "kicking the tires hard on Whitney".

But we couldn't offer enough money.

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06-17-2012, 10:31 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
He was close to coming here not so long ago. Sid's linemates have only gotten worse since then. And if the rumors were true, Whitney wanted to play with Sid. We shall see.

I'm completely sold on that offseason scenario though.

Whitney/Crosby/Kunitz would be an absolute **** to handle with their speed and creativity off the rush.

Malone/Malkin/Neal would be unreal on the cycle. So much size.

Cooke/Staal/Dupuis. Enough said.

Tangradi/Vitale/Adams/Asham. Fine with me.
Holy mother of God, that is a sexy lineup

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06-17-2012, 11:58 PM
  #923
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First of all, if you get a chance to acquire a top prospect for nothing, it's just good asset management to do it. In theory, we could sign him, have him play on our team for a year or two -- because Morrow and Harrington are not seeing the NHL in the next 2 years -- and then trade Schultz if the other two guys were really better and made him expendible (which I'm not necessarily convinced of). Conversely, if Schultz proved to be so good, he could make one of those other players expendible in a trade to bring in a high quality young forward or goaltender.

Second, it's debateable as to whether any of the 3 players you mentioned are better prospects than Schultz overall, at this point; and of the 3, only Morrow comes close to having the offensive upside. It is, however, quite certain that Schultz is more NHL ready than Morrow & Harrington, and possibly even Despres.

Third, I believe Schultz would bring an element that the Pens could really use organizationally, and especially so immediately: a legit PP quarterback Dman after Letang. We all know that Martin blows in this role, and while Niskanen was better and Despres showed some promise, none of them look to be able to replace what Gonchar or Goligoski brought to this team. Having Letang is amazing, but I would ideally like to see two offensive Dmen on this team RIGHT NOW.

Fourth, Schultz not only provides a needed offensive element, but he brings it in a right-handed package. All 3 of the prospects you mentioned are lefties.

And if Schultz was so good on this team that we wanted to keep him long-term, having that asset may enable us to trade a good young D prospect for good young forward or goalie prospect down the line (i.e. look how trading Rundblad netted Tarasenko).

As for why he would want to come here: it may not be Canada, but I couldn't think of a more exciting team to play for and have a career with than the Penguins as they are currently assembled. Opportunity to play with the 2 best players in the world and compete for the Cup every year for the next 10+ years.
I'll come back to this when I'm not intoxicated.

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06-18-2012, 04:48 AM
  #924
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Holy mother of God, that is a sexy lineup
and fairly realistic

seriously, we can have an amazing line-up with two moves. Considering we have to move at least 2 defensemen just to get down to 8, I don't think it's all that unlikely. As someone above said, it's not exactly a slam dunk either. But it's very much doable.

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06-18-2012, 06:52 AM
  #925
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He's at least as good as Morrow and hes a much better prospect than the other 2. He's also about 2 years development ahead of Morrow. Schultz would be an amazing sign for the Pens if it were able to happen. There will be a TON of interest in him though and I dont think the Pens will be the winner in the battle unfortunately.
The Pens aren't going to offer Shultz a one way contract and I think there are other teams that will so I doubt the Pens will get him. I'm sure his agent would be looking at the Pens defensive depth and tell him that it's not a good fit with a 2way contract.

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