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Off-Season Discussion Part V (Cap info in 1st post)

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Old
06-12-2012, 06:57 PM
  #151
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
I agree, but people were throwing around the idea of trading Martin for something. Trading a top 4 Dman (if you want to call him that) for offense won't help this team.


After losing to Philly, we had 2 holes. goaltending and defense. Vokoun arguably solves the first problem. New coaching philosophy/strategy can fix the second problem. No need to add more goal high end scoring here, there's plenty of that. Just get a solid winger for Sid, like Sullivan or better, and they'll be set.
Ray Whitney! Give him 4.5 mil for one year and laugh all the way to PP and offensive diversity heaven.

Skill up the wazoo. RH shot. Great character and experience. Relatively affordable. Won't tie up long-term cap space when we need to re-up our big guns.

He's the forward solution.

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06-12-2012, 07:00 PM
  #152
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I'd love to go after Suter instead of Parise. Depends which would be cheaper and how many years they'd want.

Sadly, I can see Detroit going after both of them.

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06-12-2012, 07:00 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by TheEdge27 View Post
Am I the only one who doesnt want Ryan Malone at that cap hit?
I only want him if we can't find another bidder for Martin. I'd rather spend that cap on Malone than Martin considering who we have to replace Martin.

And I still don't know why we need more defensemen. Unless we plan to get rid of Orpik on top of Martin, we only have 1 (2 if we don't keep Niskanen I guess) D spot free and we have 3 guys more than capable of filling it. We need the defensemen we have to play better and we need to design a defensive system to fit them. We do NOT need to spend a lot of money on more D when we have the D prospects we have. There are legitimate holes in our forward line-up. A good physical wing will help us more than a similar quality defenseman because it would fill an actual hole.

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06-12-2012, 07:00 PM
  #154
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I'd like to add some more size to the top 6 but I sure ain't refusing the wizard. Give him whatever he wants for a year.

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06-12-2012, 07:01 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Ray Whitney! Give him 4.5 mil for one year and laugh all the way to PP and offensive diversity heaven.

Skill up the wazoo. RH shot. Great character and experience. Relatively affordable. Won't tie up long-term cap space when we need to re-up our big guns.

He's the forward solution.
absolutely. he's my realistic top choice. I'd still love one more guy -- preferably with some size -- to push Dupuis to the bottom 6.

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06-12-2012, 07:02 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
how good of friends are sid and parise?

i know they went to shattuck's together but have we heard anything about them being close since they made it to the NHL?
at Vanity Fair parties they stick together

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06-12-2012, 07:04 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I'm not getting into our offensive output b/c posters on here tend to just look at stats. We played against a **** goalie and shaky defense but yet CSK was our only reliable line.

I agree we don't need to score than 4 goals/game. But I think surrounding Sid with some combo of size/talent would go a long way in tight checking hockey.

I can guarantee he'll be shutdown for large stretches in a playoff series with Sully and Dupuis flanking him. Posters are delusional if they think that trio can do much against the better defensive squads.

It's more nuanced than the stats we put up against Philly.
Our offensive output was fine from beginning to end last season though, and that was without the best player in the world.

As I've said before, I love me some Parise, but I think this team would benefit more from 2 guy's making 3.5 million v. one guy making 7. Signing Parise is like lighting a match with a torch.

Wouldn't be against it, but it doesn't seem like the most logical route to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
how good of friends are sid and parise?

i know they went to shattuck's together but have we heard anything about them being close since they made it to the NHL?
Never played at Shattuck together. Sid's first season was 02-03, Parise was in North Dakota at that time.

Don't really think there's a connection at all, aside from playing at the same high school. They never played on a team together, from what I can see.

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06-12-2012, 07:06 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Our offensive output was fine from beginning to end last season though, and that was without the best player in the world.

As I've said before, I love me some Parise, but I think this team would benefit more from 2 guy's making 3.5 million v. one guy making 7. Signing Parise is like lighting a match with a torch.

Wouldn't be against it, but it doesn't seem like the most logical route to me.
There is more to a forward than points. Parise is one of the best defensive wings in the league, and him and Crosby could be absolutely magical at puck possession. There is no doubt in my mind that upgrading Sid's wings would improve our team defense as a whole. More than bringing in a guy like Sarich on D would imo. The biggest thing the D needs is a system makeover and some guys to get their heads out of their *****.

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06-12-2012, 07:10 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
There is more to a forward than points. Parise is one of the best defensive wings in the league, and him and Crosby could be absolutely magical at puck possession. There is no doubt in my mind that upgrading Sid's wings would improve our team defense as a whole. More than bringing in a guy like Sarich on D would imo. The biggest thing the D needs is a system makeover and some guys to get their heads out of their *****.
And getting better defensemen would also improve this team's defense as a whole.

Signing a 7 million dollar winger is completely unnecessary with the guys we already have in place.

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06-12-2012, 07:12 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
And getting better defensemen would also improve this team's defense as a whole.

Signing a 7 million dollar winger is completely unnecessary with the guys we already have in place.
signing a 7 million dollar defenseman is completely unnecessary with the guys we have coming up through the system. Unless we move two defensemen we just don't need another one right now. And we'll need them even less in the future. We have a big glaring hole on either Sid's or Geno's left wing. I'm not saying it needs to be Parise, but it needs to not be TK.

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06-12-2012, 07:13 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
signing a 7 million dollar defenseman is completely unnecessary with the guys we have coming up through the system. Unless we move both Martin and Orpik, we just don't need another defenseman.
I never advocated signing a 7 million dollar defenseman...

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06-12-2012, 07:15 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I never advocated signing a 7 million dollar defenseman...
well there it is I don't know who is saying what at this point. I'm perfectly fine with signing two mid-range forwards. That seems to be what you are advocating. But if Parise is available I think you have to go for it. He's that good. Crosby and Parise would be the best line in the league. The fact that they can get another wing with them would just be bonus.

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06-12-2012, 07:18 PM
  #163
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who are some realistic "big" wingers we could have a chance at. Any free-agents other than Penner that could fit? I already got attacked (ok not quite) for bringing him up

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06-12-2012, 07:19 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
well there it is I don't know who is saying what at this point. I'm perfectly fine with signing two mid-range forwards. That seems to be what you are advocating. But if Parise is available I think you have to go for it. He's that good. Crosby and Parise would be the best line in the league. The fact that they can get another wing with them would just be bonus.
Which if you read what I posted, that's essentially what I said 10 posts ago.

I just said that it's probably not the best allocation of assets when looking at what this team really needs, which is defense, much more so that more scoring. The team would benefit more from a couple complementary guys, each making half of what Parise will make.

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06-12-2012, 07:21 PM
  #165
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Which if you read what I posted, that's essentially what I said 10 posts ago.

I just said that it's probably not the best allocation of assets when looking at what this team really needs, which is defense, much more so that more scoring. The team would benefit more from a couple complementary guys, each making half of what Parise will make.
I think if you get the right guys that could be true. I don't think the right guys are available though. I could be wrong.

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06-12-2012, 07:23 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
who are some realistic "big" wingers we could have a chance at. Any free-agents other than Penner that could fit? I already got attacked (ok not quite) for bringing him up
I brought him up as well, it would be an ideal signing but then you have some fans who would prefer to give Tangradi that spot.

I read on TIOPS that with the free agent market being "weak", and players' UFA rights being traded to sign before July 1, GMs are going to improve their teams via the trade market. Pens are believed to be one of those teams.

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Old
06-12-2012, 07:24 PM
  #167
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I agree signing two 3-4 million dollar wingers is better for this team than acquiring Parise. Kulemin and Stewart for example.

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06-12-2012, 07:26 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
how good of friends are sid and parise?

i know they went to shattuck's together but have we heard anything about them being close since they made it to the NHL?
Parise's three years older than Crosby. They didn't go to school together.

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06-12-2012, 07:27 PM
  #169
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Given that we do have a lot of depth on defense, though I know still a little green, I would rather get rid of cap space there rather than lose Kennedy. It's about making a balanced team & right now losing a winger doesn't help us do that.

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06-12-2012, 07:28 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
And getting better defensemen would also improve this team's defense as a whole.

Signing a 7 million dollar winger is completely unnecessary with the guys we already have in place.
I'm sorry but when you have a chance to sign a guy like Zach Parise, you go for it. Especially since the only prospects we have in the pipeline are Bennett and Kuhn, who might not even make the NHL for a few more years.


As far as defenders, we have a good core there. We saw it in 2010-11, they played great. This year they faltered. Call it coaching or whatever but they can fix the defense while keeping the guys they have, and there's even room to move one because of the depth the team has there. In free agency, who's out there besides Suter? Jackman or Allen? They're fine players but I just don't see the need unless Martin is moved. In which case, the deals would probably be short term anyway, until Despres is ready for top 4 minutes.

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Old
06-12-2012, 07:30 PM
  #171
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I brought him up as well, it would be an ideal signing but then you have some fans who would prefer to give Tangradi that spot.

I read on TIOPS that with the free agent market being "weak", and players' UFA rights being traded to sign before July 1, GMs are going to improve their teams via the trade market. Pens are believed to be one of those teams.
I really could see a Martin for Malone trade. It at least switches the overpriced contract to a position each team needs. If Malone stays healthy he'd be a great addition here. If we can get Whitney and Malone I'd be thrilled.

Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Whitney - Crosby - Malone

Kunitz and Malone could switch. I don't know which is a better fit with each line or which is more capable of playing right wing. Either we'd trade TK if we need to for cap, or we would have one of TK or Cooke on the 4th line. That's alright with me.

Cooke - Staal - Dupuis
Tangradi/Adams - Vitale - TK

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I agree signing two 3-4 million dollar wingers is better for this team than acquiring Parise. Kulemin and Stewart for example.
Do we really want to trade for two reclamation projects? I'd be happy with one or the other, but I don't think I'd go for both.

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Old
06-12-2012, 07:30 PM
  #172
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I think Parise & Crosby were a year off at Shattuck & never played together.

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06-12-2012, 07:32 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Hedberg1 View Post
I'm sorry but when you have a chance to sign a guy like Zach Parise, you go for it. Especially since the only prospects we have in the pipeline are Bennett and Kuhn, who might not even make the NHL for a few more years.


As far as defenders, we have a good core there. We saw it in 2010-11, they played great. This year they faltered. Call it coaching or whatever but they can fix the defense while keeping the guys they have, and there's even room to move one because of the depth the team has there. In free agency, who's out there besides Suter? Jackman or Allen? They're fine players but I just don't see the need unless Martin is moved. In which case, the deals would probably be short term anyway, until Despres is ready for top 4 minutes.
Have you read what I've said?


And our defense prospects are 20 minute defensemen, which is what we need. Those guys won't hit those types of minutes for years.

We don't have to sign anyone. If the right guys aren't there, then they aren't there. Stand pat, or make trades.

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06-12-2012, 07:33 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
And getting better defensemen would also improve this team's defense as a whole.

Signing a 7 million dollar winger is completely unnecessary with the guys we already have in place.
No it wouldn't. It would be like getting new windows on a house that has a failing foundation. The system if broke not the players.

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06-12-2012, 07:34 PM
  #175
mpp9
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Apparently people on here dont share my view of Kulemin so I'll leave it at him being a perfect LW for Geno. And Stewart having huge potential with Sid and Kuni. Both those "reclamation projects" will have plenty of opportunity on the PP.

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