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Off-Season Discussion Part V (Cap info in 1st post)

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Old
06-12-2012, 07:34 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
No it wouldn't. It would be like getting new windows on a house that has a failing foundation. The system if broke not the players.
I disagree. The mistakes happening weren't the system. They were just ******, stupid hockey, and guys completely under performing as to what their talent level suggests.

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06-12-2012, 07:35 PM
  #177
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No it wouldn't. It would be like getting new windows on a house that has a failing foundation. The system if broke not the players.
Exactly. Would Suter have looked better than Martin last year? Ya. Would he have looked like a guy worth 6-7 million dollars? I very much doubt it.

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06-12-2012, 07:35 PM
  #178
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I disagree. The mistakes happening weren't the system. They were just ******, stupid hockey, and guys completely under performing as to what their talent level suggests.
they ALL looked lost. There is no way our entire defensive group -- 1 year removed from being one of the best in the league -- stopped being good at hockey at the same time for no reason.

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06-12-2012, 07:37 PM
  #179
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Apparently people on here dont share my view of Kulemin so I'll leave it at him being a perfect LW for Geno. And Stewart having huge potential with Sid and Kuni. Both those "reclamation projects" will have plenty of opportunity on the PP.
I'd be very happy to get either. But I just don't want to give up the assets it would cost to get both unless they come cheaper than I expect.

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06-12-2012, 07:41 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I'd be very happy to get either. But I just don't want to give up the assets it would cost to get both unless they come cheaper than I expect.
Fair enough. I'd move any of Martin/Kennedy/Harrington/Bennett/Tangradi/1st to get those players. Staal being moved to one of those teams makes it realistic to nab both. Unlikely, but possible.

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06-12-2012, 07:42 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Fair enough. I'd love any of Martin/Kennedy/Harrington/Bennett/Tangradi/1st to get those players. Staal being moved to one of those teams makes it realistic to nab both. Unlikely, but possible.
I wouldn't move Harrington or probably Bennett for either. I guess that's where we differ. If we can get them moving a combination of Martin, TK, Tangradi, Jeffrey or a pick I'm in.

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06-12-2012, 07:42 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
they ALL looked lost. There is no way our entire defensive group -- 1 year removed from being one of the best in the league -- stopped being good at hockey at the same time for no reason.
It wasn't the whole group. Letang looked very good last season, Michalek was average, Orpik was bad, and Martin was terrible for stretches and good for stretches. Niskanen and Engelland were good. I also think Michalek got Melichar'd by Martin.

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06-12-2012, 07:42 PM
  #183
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absolutely. he's my realistic top choice. I'd still love one more guy -- preferably with some size -- to push Dupuis to the bottom 6.
For sure. If we signed Whits, moved Martin for futures of some sort, and then picked up Kulemin on the cheap...I'd be a happy camper.

Kulemin - Crosby - Whitney
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Staal - Dupuis
Tangradi - Vitale - Kennedy

...looks like a pretty imposing forward corps to me.

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06-12-2012, 07:46 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
It wasn't the whole group. Letang looked very good last season, Michalek was average, Orpik was bad, and Martin was terrible. Niskanen and Engelland were good. I also think Michalek got Melichar'd by Martin.
It don't think it's a coincidence Michalek looked his best next to Despres.

I find it weird that people lump Michalek in with Martin and Orpik. His positional play was light years ahead or Orpik. Martin only looked like a top 4 defenceman for like 25 games this year...

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06-12-2012, 07:47 PM
  #185
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Stewart as a RHS for the PP helps ease the loss of Bennett. And resigning Michalek is an option if we move Harrington.

I hope the blues are intrigued by Harrington/Martin/Kennedy. I think Kennedy will be the odd man out if moves are made.

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06-12-2012, 07:48 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
It don't think it's a coincidence Michalek looked his best next to Despres.

I find it weird that people lump Michalek in with Martin and Orpik. His positional play was light years ahead or Orpik. Martin only looked like a top 4 defenceman for like 25 games this year...
Michalek was a step above Orpik and Martin for sure, but compared to last year he was bad. It was mostly his play with the puck. Last year he had a good first pass on the breakout. This year he looked lost as soon as he got the puck.

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06-12-2012, 07:49 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Stewart as a RHS for the PP helps ease the loss of Bennett. And resigning Michalek is an option if we move Harrington.

I hope the blues are intrigued by Harrington/Martin/Kennedy. I think Kennedy will be the odd man out if moves are made.
Eventually we are going to want these cheap contracts from guys like Bennett and Harrington though. I'd definitely try for Whitney before I pursued the 2nd of those guys.

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06-12-2012, 07:50 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Eventually we are going to want these cheap contracts from guys like Bennett and Harrington though. I'd definitely try for Whitney before I pursued the 2nd of those guys.
Kulemin and Whitney. I'm on board.

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06-12-2012, 07:51 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Stewart as a RHS for the PP helps ease the loss of Bennett. And resigning Michalek is an option if we move Harrington.

I hope the blues are intrigued by Harrington
/Martin/Kennedy. I think Kennedy will be the odd man out if moves are made.
I don't understand why, after all our blueline woes this year, we would want to trade a player who some very knowledgeable people consider the best shutdown defenseman in not only the OHL, but all junior hockey.

Trust me, as a guy who watched a fair amount of Harrington this year, he's a player we want to hang on to.

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06-12-2012, 07:53 PM
  #190
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Parise's three years older than Crosby. They didn't go to school together.
hmm always thought they had one season overlap. looks like im wrong though.

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06-12-2012, 07:54 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Kulemin and Whitney. I'm on board.
that's probably my ideal yet realistic scenario. I'm still a Parise fanboy but I fully admit it is unlikely

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06-12-2012, 07:59 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
For sure. If we signed Whits, moved Martin for futures of some sort, and then picked up Kulemin on the cheap...I'd be a happy camper.

Kulemin - Crosby - Whitney
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Staal - Dupuis
Tangradi - Vitale - Kennedy

...looks like a pretty imposing forward corps to me.
Nothing personal Roddy, but, if I were to acquire Kulemin, then it would be to play him with Malkin so that I could slide Kunitz back up with Crosby, where he'd be a better fit.

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06-12-2012, 08:01 PM
  #193
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Nothing personal Roddy, but, if I were to acquire Kulemin, then it would be to play him with Malkin so that I could slide Kunitz back up with Crosby, where he'd be a better fit.
I'm just going to go on a limb and say they'd try out line combo's at camp. I don't know if Whitney is a right wing either, but I think we can make it all work.

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06-12-2012, 08:04 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I really could see a Martin for Malone trade. It at least switches the overpriced contract to a position each team needs. If Malone stays healthy he'd be a great addition here. If we can get Whitney and Malone I'd be thrilled.

Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Whitney - Crosby - Malone

Kunitz and Malone could switch. I don't know which is a better fit with each line or which is more capable of playing right wing. Either we'd trade TK if we need to for cap, or we would have one of TK or Cooke on the 4th line. That's alright with me.

Cooke - Staal - Dupuis
Tangradi/Adams - Vitale - TK



Do we really want to trade for two reclamation projects? I'd be happy with one or the other, but I don't think I'd go for both.
If my choice were those two reclamation projects OR any one of Sully, Dupuis, or Kennedy in the top six, then give me the reclamation projects every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I've seen the 'we don't need more goals' argument, and it's technically accurate. BUT, what we do need is more puck possession, especially when Sid and Geno are out there.

As marvelous a matchup advantage as you get from the three center model, I tend to think that having two lines with arguably the best player in hockey centering two good, legit scoring line wingers would be a bigger matchup nightmare for the opposition.

Imagine, for example, if the Pens three lines had been Kunitz-Sid-Stewart, Kulemin-Geno-Neal, and Cooke-Staal-Dupuis against Philly. They threw everything at Malkin. Do you think Philly would have paid a bigger price against Kunitz-Sid-Stewart than they did against Sully-Sid-Dupuis?

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06-12-2012, 08:05 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I'm just going to go on a limb and say they'd try out line combo's at camp. I don't know if Whitney is a right wing either, but I think we can make it all work.
Whitney is listed as a LW.

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06-12-2012, 08:05 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Nothing personal Roddy, but, if I were to acquire Kulemin, then it would be to play him with Malkin so that I could slide Kunitz back up with Crosby, where he'd be a better fit.
Either way, it works for me. They fill a similar niche.

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06-12-2012, 08:07 PM
  #197
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If my choice were those two reclamation projects OR any one of Sully, Dupuis, or Kennedy in the top six, then give me the reclamation projects every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I've seen the 'we don't need more goals' argument, and it's technically accurate. BUT, what we do need is more puck possession, especially when Sid and Geno are out there.

As marvelous a matchup advantage as you get from the three center model, I tend to think that having two lines with arguably the best player in hockey centering two good, legit scoring line wingers would be a bigger matchup nightmare for the opposition.

Imagine, for example, if the Pens three lines had been Kunitz-Sid-Stewart, Kulemin-Geno-Neal, and Cooke-Staal-Dupuis against Philly. They threw everything at Malkin. Do you think Philly would have paid a bigger price against Kunitz-Sid-Stewart than they did against Sully-Sid-Dupuis?
I agree. I'm just saying my plan A wouldn't be to bring in both.

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06-12-2012, 08:08 PM
  #198
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Whitney is listed as a LW.
right. so are Kulemin, Kunitz and Neal. That's what I'm not sure about. Obviously Neal can play right. I've never seen any of the other 3 play RW. Doesn't mean they haven't, I don't watch much Toronto or Phoenix. According to my fantasy hockey knowledge ( ) Whitney was only a LW last year at least.

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06-12-2012, 08:10 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
right. so are Kulemin, Kunitz and Neal. That's what I'm not sure about. Obviously Neal can play right. I've never seen any of the other 3 play RW. Doesn't mean they haven't, I don't watch much Toronto or Phoenix. According to my fantasy hockey knowledge ( ) Whitney was only a LW last year at least.
Kulemin can play both sides, IIRC.

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06-12-2012, 08:12 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Kulemin can play both sides, IIRC.
so Malkin is set. Sid might have two left wings I would have to think Kunitz could switch if Whitney can't. Or we could blow Kirk's mind and switch Kunitz and Kulemin.

That seems like a bridge to cross if we reach it.

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