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Ottawa-Calgary proposal

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Old
12-27-2004, 02:32 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleHossa
The thing with Havlat is that he will be 5 MILLIONS cheaper than Iginla
Then why do you want him?

As generous as Havlat, Mezaous and a 1st may be, I'd rather hold on to our superstar and the future of our franchise.

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12-27-2004, 02:52 AM
  #27
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So how can Ottawa afford Iginla, but Calgary can't?

The Sens just signed Alfie to a huge contract..

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Old
12-27-2004, 03:02 AM
  #28
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Just horrible, but at least Todd White wasn't involved.

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Old
12-27-2004, 03:07 AM
  #29
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You'd have to get Darryl Sutter pretty damn drunk to do this deal. BIG pass.

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Old
12-27-2004, 04:01 AM
  #30
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Stupid trade proposal. People we need a Top line Left Wingerin Ottawa and not another right winger.

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Old
12-27-2004, 08:44 AM
  #31
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I would like to ease the heartache of Calgary fans everywhere and take Rhett Warrener away from you. In the process, I'll also take Stephane Yelle; don't be so God damn selfish Calgary fans, let the boy come home where he belongs.

As for the other Alberta team, Ottawa will welcome with open arms Ethan Moreau.

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Old
12-27-2004, 08:56 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire

The Sens just signed Alfie to a huge contract..
And have a billionaire owner.

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Old
12-27-2004, 09:27 AM
  #33
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I think Calgary will push the boat out to keep Iginla - he is their franchise. Phaneuf is a major cog for their future as well.

I think the question has to be could Hossa or even Havlat (sens fans don't agree who's the best) be as good as Iginla? Maybe, but it is absolutely nowhere *near* a garuntee. We're talking about them being the best player in the league. Especially when they're not just trying to overtake Iginla and Forsberg you're trying to keep ahead of Crosby, Ovechkin etc.

For sure you have to factor in money, but Calgary can probably make savings elsewhere if they must.

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Old
12-27-2004, 12:25 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BG
I would like to ease the heartache of Calgary fans everywhere and take Rhett Warrener away from you. In the process, I'll also take Stephane Yelle; don't be so God damn selfish Calgary fans, let the boy come home where he belongs.
AAAH! Warrener and Yelle are just about as untouchable as Iginla! I'm serious.... if those two left, there goes Calgary's reputation for playing defensively, blocking one shot after another, and serving up a mean PK. Here, have Chris Clark instead.


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Old
12-27-2004, 12:55 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
AAAH! Warrener and Yelle are just about as untouchable as Iginla! I'm serious.... if those two left, there goes Calgary's reputation for playing defensively, blocking one shot after another, and serving up a mean PK. Here, have Chris Clark instead.

But he sucks! We'll take just one of them; but here we are amidst CBA discussions talking about the need for an equal playing field, and you're hoggin'!

Seriously though, what do you think will happen with Calgary once the NHL kicks back up? Don't they have more than 12 NHL quality forwards? I imagine someone will be cut loose? I figure McAmmond won't be resigned (didn't he sign with New Jersey's farm team?)

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Old
12-27-2004, 01:40 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NataSatan666
Igilna and Phaneuf
For
Hossa, Spezza and Phillips

And guess what.....neither team does it.

Go figure
I think I'd do that if I was the Flames, but I can understand if a Flames fan would disagree.

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Old
12-27-2004, 01:46 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I.M. Fletcher
fair enough, Iginla is possibly, in my opinion, the top player in the league. Hossa, though, is top 10, maybe top 7. Both dominant, streaky players who can turn it up, and can do it without much talent on their line. The difference between the two players is not worth Philips, thats for sure.
There are reasons I made that proposal

Hossa might have come into his own "sort of" in these playoffs but he is still FAR behind Igilna as far as a top notch playoff player. Not to mention that Igilna has scored a ton playing with a 3rd line center (sorry Craig Conroy but you should be giving Iggy have of the money you made on your new contract, without Iggy Conroy would be nothing more than a 3rd line afterthought. Not to mention he still is near the top of the league in points and goals when he is the only player that can really hurt you. If you put your best defensive foward and best defensive defensman on Hossa. Havlat or Alfredson will kill you. No such luxery in Calgary. Igilna has fought through it all

Regular season Igilna is better than Hossa by a bit (And I love Hossa but hes really not in Iggy's class)

In the playoffs I would take one Iggy for 3 Hossa's

Spezza is a good player and could turn out great. But good young defenseman are much harder to find than good young centers. So even though I think Spezza will have a better career, I say the 2 of them are basicly equal in trade value.

Because of the different in playoff preformance I would say Ottawa would have to toss a Philips in to get this deal done.

And lets not forget Hossa may be cheaper now BUT he is coming up on a contract that will make him not so cheap

Ottawa does not do this deal because the sum of parts is not worth it.

Calgary does not do this trade because they will not part with Iggy for any reason, that is if they want to keep a team in Calgary.

My last point is maybe the Sens do need a tough left winger, but if they had Iggy instead of Hossa and Spezza last year they would have won the cup. Thats how good Igilna played in the playoffs last year.

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Old
12-27-2004, 04:15 PM
  #38
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Counter offer:
Redden and Hossa for Kobasew, Phanauf and 1st

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Old
12-27-2004, 04:17 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalek
Counter offer:
Redden and Hossa for Kobasew, Phanauf and 1st
The Flames would become one of the top teams if they added that package BUT they cannot AFFORD to add nearly 8 million in salary just like that. If the Flames could afford that package, I would take it without looking back.

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Old
12-27-2004, 04:25 PM
  #40
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I haven't even bothered to read all the responses, so here is my answer to the original propoal: NO

What the Senators would be giving to get both Iginla and Phaneuf is not enough to get EITHER ONE of them. Try this one on for size:

Iginla - untouchable, not going to be traded for any package

Phaneuf - straight up for Spezza, MAYBE we would consider it

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Old
12-27-2004, 04:26 PM
  #41
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Patrick I wouldn't take that

why would we take Redden? We have absolutely no need to add another defenceman. Unless they were taking Lydman, then maybe

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Old
12-27-2004, 04:53 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimrods Son
Patrick I wouldn't take that

why would we take Redden? We have absolutely no need to add another defenceman. Unless they were taking Lydman, then maybe
If we were trading Phaneuf we would be losing a top 4 defenseman. Redden would be a top pairing defenseman and HUFE for our PP (something Phaneuf would bring but gone if traded).

Leopold - Regher
Redden - Warrener
Lydman - Ference
Montador

If Phaneuf was to be traded, we would have to play one of the "doors" as a full time NHL player and I would much rather NOT do that.

#1 Rhino - Langkow - Iginla
#2 ? - Lombardi - Hossa

? = Simon, Gelinas

Looks good to me. We add a ton more offense. 10+ goals from Redden and 35+ goals from Hossa.

BUT, we cannot afford them so no deal.

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Old
12-27-2004, 08:20 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
If we were trading Phaneuf we would be losing a top 4 defenseman. Redden would be a top pairing defenseman and HUFE for our PP (something Phaneuf would bring but gone if traded).

Leopold - Regher
Redden - Warrener
Lydman - Ference
Montador

If Phaneuf was to be traded, we would have to play one of the "doors" as a full time NHL player and I would much rather NOT do that.

#1 Rhino - Langkow - Iginla
#2 ? - Lombardi - Hossa

? = Simon, Gelinas

Looks good to me. We add a ton more offense. 10+ goals from Redden and 35+ goals from Hossa.

BUT, we cannot afford them so no deal.
Redden is a great defenceman (one of my favorite players), but the Flames don't need him. Redden could help any team in the league, including the Flames -- but they just don't need him to ice a very strong blueline. A trifecta of Regehr, Leopold and Phaneuf can carry the Flames for a long time to come. I wouldn't do Phaneuf for Redden straight up -- not because the value isn't there, but because it doesn't answer a need for the Flames and they can afford to bet on Phaneuf's potential with a strong blueline that averages 25 years of age (not including Phaneuf). Then take into account that Sutter will not let Phaneuf go under any circumstance and you've got a hard sell. Not to mention Redden's $4.7M contract.

If the Flames make a deal with the Sens it is for more help upfront, and I don't think it will involve Phaneuf.

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Old
12-27-2004, 11:38 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
Redden is a great defenceman (one of my favorite players), but the Flames don't need him. Redden could help any team in the league, including the Flames -- but they just don't need him to ice a very strong blueline. A trifecta of Regehr, Leopold and Phaneuf can carry the Flames for a long time to come. I wouldn't do Phaneuf for Redden straight up -- not because the value isn't there, but because it doesn't answer a need for the Flames and they can afford to bet on Phaneuf's potential with a strong blueline that averages 25 years of age (not including Phaneuf). Then take into account that Sutter will not let Phaneuf go under any circumstance and you've got a hard sell. Not to mention Redden's $4.7M contract.

If the Flames make a deal with the Sens it is for more help upfront, and I don't think it will involve Phaneuf.
Yes, but the deal was NOT a 1 for 1 deal. To get something of great value you have to giove something up. Phaneuf was given up mainly for Hossa but also in the deal we were still getting back a very solid defenseman as well that would fill Phaneuf's spot too.

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Old
12-28-2004, 12:02 AM
  #45
ErnestoGuevara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimrods Son
I haven't even bothered to read all the responses, so here is my answer to the original propoal: NO

What the Senators would be giving to get both Iginla and Phaneuf is not enough to get EITHER ONE of them. Try this one on for size:

Iginla - untouchable, not going to be traded for any package

Phaneuf - straight up for Spezza, MAYBE we would consider it
What??? If you think that a package of Havlat, Meszaros and a first/Vermette is not enough to get Iginla I can live with that because, afterall, it is probably true but to say that this package wouldn't get the Sens Dion Phaneuf, who hasn't even played an NHL game yet, is just ridiculous. I understand that Calgary would want a young center but, really, I don't understand why you would consider Phaneuf straight up for Spezza but wouldn't consider the Havlat+Meszaros+1st/Vermette package. Havlat is a better player than Spezza and by a lot if you ask me. Spezza has been overrated since his OHL draft and Havlat has always been underrated (might have to do with the fact that one is Canadian while the latter is not). Just look at their NHL careers, Havlat is clearly better and a package of Havlat+Meszaros+1st/Vermette would help Calgary a lot more (both now - specialy if it's Vermette - and for the future) than Spezza only. Rethink what you've said, it really doesn't make any sense.

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Old
12-28-2004, 01:31 AM
  #46
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Havlat doesn't interest me because of his (I don't mean to sound discrimatory here) "European attitude."

Meszarous and Vermette as the rest of the deal really doesn't interest me enough to deal Phaneuf, personally. Nothing against the quantity or quality of the package, just not the group of assets I'd be looking for in dealing what Phaneuf might offer the Flames.

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Old
12-28-2004, 12:31 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Havlat doesn't interest me because of his (I don't mean to sound discrimatory here) "European attitude."

Meszarous and Vermette as the rest of the deal really doesn't interest me enough to deal Phaneuf, personally. Nothing against the quantity or quality of the package, just not the group of assets I'd be looking for in dealing what Phaneuf might offer the Flames.

european attitude? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but which one is that? Are you talking about the "i'm better than you sergei fedorov euro thing"? or the soft european thing.

The former i can see, he kinda bring that out sometimes not not very often(well, at least from what i've seen) The latter i can't really see though, he goes into the corners and muck's it up every now and then.

Meszarous and Vermette for Phaneuf wouldn't interest me either, i agree.

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Old
12-28-2004, 12:50 PM
  #48
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I think we can all agree that both teams are not good trading partners at the present time, and that any move would be, at best, lateral.

Don't get me wrong, Iginla is my favourite player in the NHL... I'm just not prepared to give up what we would have to give up for him, especially since he'll be UFA in 2-3-4 years (depending on the new UFA age in the yet-to-be-defined CBA). He's simply that good.

And I wouldn't even trade Chris Phillips straight up for Phaneuf, so let's not even go into Redden territory. This kid hasn't even played a single pro game yet... I've seen way too many junior phenoms flame out in the NHL (I'm not suggesting he will, just that he isn't a sure bet, nobody is).

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Old
12-28-2004, 07:18 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyseven
And I wouldn't even trade Chris Phillips straight up for Phaneuf, so let's not even go into Redden territory. This kid hasn't even played a single pro game yet... I've seen way too many junior phenoms flame out in the NHL (I'm not suggesting he will, just that he isn't a sure bet, nobody is).
Fair enough. I wouldn't trade Phaneuf for Phillips either. Phaneuf's upside is simply too high for the Flames to trade him at this point. He's the next Scott Stevens, with more of an offensive touch, IMO. According to (I believe it was) Darryl Sutter, Phaneuf is the best player outside the NHL right now - although that is his own opinion.

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Old
12-28-2004, 07:52 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
He's the next Scott Stevens, with more of an offensive touch, IMO.
Funny, that's almost word-for-word what they said about Phillips.

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