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Old
07-02-2012, 12:40 PM
  #351
John TavArt Ross
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The argument that P.A. is only good if he plays with Tavares is invalid. The fact was, he WAS playing with Tavares. So the real question was, what did the Islanders want to pay this guy who would be playing with Tavares? The risk they are taking is paying Boyes 3 mil less per year, do hopefully replace those numbers (assuming he will be playing on that top line.) If they go ahead and grab someone making more money, to play his role, and is near his point total, then the Islanders are definitely foolish.

Somebody please reread that to make sure it makes sense.

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07-02-2012, 01:32 PM
  #352
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Some ppl are so disillusioned it's frightening. You're thrilled that Garth avoided a 4 year, $16MM deal for a 67-point scorer last year. Why? Are you paying the $4MM salary? What else would you have expected a 67 point scorer to get in UFA? Considering some of the ridiculous contracts given out every year on July 1, PA's is actually par for the course, certainly not an albatross.

Now we have 8 goal scorer Brad Boyes at $1MM so we freed up an additional $3MM to.... do nothing with? Goodness. Garth is dumpster diving again and we couldn't be happier!

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07-02-2012, 01:53 PM
  #353
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He cashed in can't blame him. But honestly we should have resigned him to that contract. People can say he's not a real 1st liner or that his stats are inflated but reality is he clicked with jt and mm so why not give him $4mil per year when you're trying to reach the floor? No good reason not to. Cap space doesnt mean a thing if you don't use it
My guess is that the Isles are looking to their young players like Nino and Strome to fill that gap within the next few years.

In the end, it's PA Parenteau. I'm having a tough time being upset about him signing with another team or not getting a 3rd round pick for him at the deadline.

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07-02-2012, 02:34 PM
  #354
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My guess is that the Isles are looking to their young players like Nino and Strome to fill that gap within the next few years.

In the end, it's PA Parenteau. I'm having a tough time being upset about him signing with another team or not getting a 3rd round pick for him at the deadline.
I agree completely. While the $4MM salary for next year, and maybe even the year after, isn't an issue, it becomes an issue in year 4 when you are paying a then 33 year old PA. It is also important to see how PA does with new linemates and on what line? Will he get 1st line (and 1st line PP) time with the AVS as he did with the Isles?

At the end of the day, it is very likely that PA benefited from playing with JT and MM on the first line (due to a lack of anyone else better suited) than they did from him. I wish him well and thank him for his time here, but in my opinion PA was not a core element for this team, this year or in 4 years.

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07-02-2012, 03:23 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by 7:11 of OT View Post
I agree completely. While the $4MM salary for next year, and maybe even the year after, isn't an issue, it becomes an issue in year 4 when you are paying a then 33 year old PA. It is also important to see how PA does with new linemates and on what line? Will he get 1st line (and 1st line PP) time with the AVS as he did with the Isles?

At the end of the day, it is very likely that PA benefited from playing with JT and MM on the first line (due to a lack of anyone else better suited) than they did from him. I wish him well and thank him for his time here, but in my opinion PA was not a core element for this team, this year or in 4 years.
so 33 years old is officially over the hill now? I remember when it used to be when a guy got to be like 36-37 they started talking about him like that.

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07-02-2012, 03:46 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by 7:11 of OT View Post
I agree completely. While the $4MM salary for next year, and maybe even the year after, isn't an issue, it becomes an issue in year 4 when you are paying a then 33 year old PA. It is also important to see how PA does with new linemates and on what line? Will he get 1st line (and 1st line PP) time with the AVS as he did with the Isles?

At the end of the day, it is very likely that PA benefited from playing with JT and MM on the first line (due to a lack of anyone else better suited) than they did from him. I wish him well and thank him for his time here, but in my opinion PA was not a core element for this team, this year or in 4 years.
How does PA Parenteau making $4 million/year for the New York Islanders ever, EVER become an issue? They are currently managed millions of dollars below the salary cap floor. And in 4 years when the salary cap ceiling is inevitably higher than it will be next season, somehow this will pose a problem?

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07-02-2012, 04:01 PM
  #357
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so 33 years old is officially over the hill now? I remember when it used to be when a guy got to be like 36-37 they started talking about him like that.
I never said over the hill. I said that in my opinion he is not considered part of the core.

As a 48 year old myself - everyone on the team is still a kid.

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07-02-2012, 04:03 PM
  #358
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How does PA Parenteau making $4 million/year for the New York Islanders ever, EVER become an issue? They are currently managed millions of dollars below the salary cap floor. And in 4 years when the salary cap ceiling is inevitably higher than it will be next season, somehow this will pose a problem?
You are talking about two different issues. If you are talking about the general issue of Isles management spending at the floor, then you are right that the math would indicate that they can afford a $4mm PAP - my point is that they do not want one.

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07-02-2012, 07:12 PM
  #359
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You are talking about two different issues. If you are talking about the general issue of Isles management spending at the floor, then you are right that the math would indicate that they can afford a $4mm PAP - my point is that they do not want one.
That's what I fully believe.. They can afford a whole bunch of 4 + million contracts.

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07-02-2012, 07:42 PM
  #360
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I'm glad PA's gone.... He's a bum... Fortunate to have got an oppurtunity to play top line minutes. Made the most out of it but He'll Blake out in Colorado.

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07-02-2012, 08:11 PM
  #361
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One of the interesting side stories to watch this year will be to see who puts up more point: PAP or Boyes.

Okay, maybe "interesting" is too strong a word.

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07-03-2012, 06:33 AM
  #362
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I'm more annoyed that we didn't give $4.5 million/year to Jokinen for 2 years. (Improves the club and uses the "Rolston" money or PAP raise money.)

It's still early in free agency, but I am sick of how tiny we are down the middle and nothing so far has changed that. The sizable 3rd line centers I'd want are signed elsewhere; we didn't have a chance though on either (Stoll & Gaustad.) The most legitimate 2nd line center available with size is now signed elsewhere. We've yet to spend PA's potential paycheck or Rolston's prior paycheck on anything else.

$1.00 million/year for Boyes is less than what we paid PA last season ($1.25 million for 2012)
$1.50 million/year for Carkner can be considered a contract replacement for Jurcina ($1.60 million for 2012)
$3.00 million/year for Visnovsky has to be considered a replacement for Eaton ($3.00 million for 2012)

Where's the non-**** Rolston replacement to supplement the ****ing roster? I don't care how it gets here, but there's money to be spent. I really don't give a **** that PA is gone because our top-6 makeup sucks, but I want that Rolston money spent and I want an eye on improving the roster as a whole when it gets done. I do not want a last minute crap addition to get us above the floor - we saw how well that worked last time.

No matter what there is a signing or a trade coming, and I want it to not suck or be predictably dollar saving. I want to hear that Matt Martin is re-upped, as well.

I hope this didn't stray too far from Parenteau land for this thread. I'm waiting to see where the $4-$5 million/year goes. (Move it to the free agency thread if need be and thanks in advance.)

,
Mitch

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07-03-2012, 08:06 AM
  #363
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Fans will start to whine when pap continues to produce in Colorado. That or they will make a bogus excuse like "nobody saw that coming-go read past threads". The excuses made for Garth are unbelievable.

Who cares if he produced because he was playing with jt--he was producing!!!! How difficult is it to grasp that?

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07-03-2012, 08:27 AM
  #364
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Fans will start to whine when pap continues to produce in Colorado. That or they will make a bogus excuse like "nobody saw that coming-go read past threads". The excuses made for Garth are unbelievable.

Who cares if he produced because he was playing with jt--he was producing!!!! How difficult is it to grasp that?
Some care because it wasn't a good 5-on-5 line. The only plus month JT had was when PAP was not on the line. The line wasn't strong against top teams in the East outside of the Rags. The line didn't earn a single point in 6 games against the Pens. JT was the most dominant physical player on the line and our top-6 is small.

I expect PAP to be fine if paired with Matt Duchene in a 2nd line scoring role. I'd expect them to potentially use PAP in 1st line PP duty, as well. He'll be successful there, but he wasn't worth keeping for four years here. Simply put, we don't have the right center to glue PAP to.

My anger at Garth (and Wang) will be reserved for when we yet again scrape the bottom of the NHL salary barrel. My anger will come out when we don't add a more physical element to our top-6 forwards or another physical player to our defense. As in, I'll be pissed when we don't plug the obvious holes in the lineup for yet another season and place all of our hopes on uncertainties.

If KO plays the whole year with Moulson and JT, I don't expect anyone to be disappointed by the results. I can't say the same for what I can currently predict with the rest of the squad as currently constituted. It is early though. I don't like judging the opening night roster until it's set. Having said that, useful players that should be within our price range have been missed out on. Some went before hitting UFA. It's Garth's move if he's allowed to make it. Something can be had. Many of us were pissed that we didn't take advantage of the Chicago RFA signing problem. Well, there tends to be one team or another who needs to move a useful player every off-season. We've got a significant amount of assets. We've got room under the LOWER LIMIT. Will we do what should be expected to improve the team for this coming season? Or are we truly handicapped by a team that is unwilling to even approach what should be the real league minimum for salaries every year?

I think it's safe to say that by the end of this off-season we should have more than enough information to make a strongly educated guess as to what our current scenario really is. I'd imagine most of us are leaning towards the team being as...ummm..."frugal" as possible. Some might say "****ing cheap". Others might say "prudent in the face off the current arena situation". I'm somewhere in between "frugal" and "****ing cheap" because I think spending a little now will actually have a higher chance at returning dollars on the overall investment.

,
Mitch

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07-03-2012, 08:38 AM
  #365
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Some care because it wasn't a good 5-on-5 line. The only plus month JT had was when PAP was not on the line. The line wasn't strong against top teams in the East outside of the Rags. The line didn't earn a single point in 6 games against the Pens. JT was the most dominant physical player on the line and our top-6 is small.

I expect PAP to be fine if paired with Matt Duchene in a 2nd line scoring role. I'd expect them to potentially use PAP in 1st line PP duty, as well. He'll be successful there, but he wasn't worth keeping for four years here. Simply put, we don't have the right center to glue PAP to.

My anger at Garth (and Wang) will be reserved for when we yet again scrape the bottom of the NHL salary barrel. My anger will come out when we don't add a more physical element to our top-6 forwards or another physical player to our defense. As in, I'll be pissed when we don't plug the obvious holes in the lineup for yet another season and place all of our hopes on uncertainties.

If KO plays the whole year with Moulson and JT, I don't expect anyone to be disappointed by the results. I can't say the same for what I can currently predict with the rest of the squad as currently constituted. It is early though. I don't like judging the opening night roster until it's set. Having said that, useful players that should be within our price range have been missed out on. Some went before hitting UFA. It's Garth's move if he's allowed to make it. Something can be had. Many of us were pissed that we didn't take advantage of the Chicago RFA signing problem. Well, there tends to be one team or another who needs to move a useful player every off-season. We've got a significant amount of assets. We've got room under the LOWER LIMIT. Will we do what should be expected to improve the team for this coming season? Or are we truly handicapped by a team that is unwilling to even approach what should be the real league minimum for salaries every year?

I think it's safe to say that by the end of this off-season we should have more than enough information to make a strongly educated guess as to what our current scenario really is. I'd imagine most of us are leaning towards the team being as...ummm..."frugal" as possible. Some might say "****ing cheap". Others might say "prudent in the face off the current arena situation". I'm somewhere in between "frugal" and "****ing cheap" because I think spending a little now will actually have a higher chance at returning dollars on the overall investment.

,
Mitch
Without a doubt the most well thought out and intelligent assessment of the current Isles situation. No emotion, just simple pragmatism. Well done.

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07-03-2012, 08:45 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by 7:11 of OT View Post
Without a doubt the most well thought out and intelligent assessment of the current Isles situation. No emotion, just simple pragmatism. Well done.
Thanks, 7:11.

No emotion, pfft...I threw plenty of ****s in there!

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Mitch

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07-03-2012, 08:50 AM
  #367
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Another failure by Snowang. 4 yrs 16 mill was less than Market rate in my opinion.
PAP might have also given them a home team discount.
Now with drafting 7 D this year plus signing 2 more plus adding Pedan and Mayfield Last year,it appears to me that DeHaan and Ness will not be more than 6/7 D men. Another example of Snowang failures

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07-03-2012, 08:51 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
I'm more annoyed that we didn't give $4.5 million/year to Jokinen for 2 years. (Improves the club and uses the "Rolston" money or PAP raise money.)

It's still early in free agency, but I am sick of how tiny we are down the middle and nothing so far has changed that. The sizable 3rd line centers I'd want are signed elsewhere; we didn't have a chance though on either (Stoll & Gaustad.) The most legitimate 2nd line center available with size is now signed elsewhere. We've yet to spend PA's potential paycheck or Rolston's prior paycheck on anything else.

$1.00 million/year for Boyes is less than what we paid PA last season ($1.25 million for 2012)
$1.50 million/year for Carkner can be considered a contract replacement for Jurcina ($1.60 million for 2012)
$3.00 million/year for Visnovsky has to be considered a replacement for Eaton ($3.00 million for 2012)

Where's the non-**** Rolston replacement to supplement the ****ing roster? I don't care how it gets here, but there's money to be spent. I really don't give a **** that PA is gone because our top-6 makeup sucks, but I want that Rolston money spent and I want an eye on improving the roster as a whole when it gets done. I do not want a last minute crap addition to get us above the floor - we saw how well that worked last time.

No matter what there is a signing or a trade coming, and I want it to not suck or be predictably dollar saving. I want to hear that Matt Martin is re-upped, as well.

I hope this didn't stray too far from Parenteau land for this thread. I'm waiting to see where the $4-$5 million/year goes. (Move it to the free agency thread if need be and thanks in advance.)

,
Mitch
I'm with you on that all the way. Isles management acts like the world would end if they somehow spent a dime over the cap floor (when in true fact they would be spending well under it for players when you strip away the bonus and buy out money). And then they expect fans to buy tickets at increased pricing????
Carnival barker mentality.
I would like to sign Jason Arnott to a 2 year deal. He is old but he can still play some in the right role for him, and I think third line responsibility and minutes is the right role. Still has a great shot, great size, gets around ok.

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07-03-2012, 08:54 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by 7:11 of OT View Post
I agree completely. While the $4MM salary for next year, and maybe even the year after, isn't an issue, it becomes an issue in year 4 when you are paying a then 33 year old PA. It is also important to see how PA does with new linemates and on what line? Will he get 1st line (and 1st line PP) time with the AVS as he did with the Isles?

At the end of the day, it is very likely that PA benefited from playing with JT and MM on the first line (due to a lack of anyone else better suited) than they did from him. I wish him well and thank him for his time here, but in my opinion PA was not a core element for this team, this year or in 4 years.
Year 4 will not be a problem. By year 4, the arena situation will be resolved, one way or another. If the team is even in New York at that point, it will be in a new building and will probably be willing to spend above the floor in order to fill the building.

And $4M is not a lot of money. It is second line money for a player that put up first line money last year. And you can't say it is all JT/MM. Good linemates don't take you from a 20 point player to a 67 point player. Even if PAP is only good for 50-55 points, his contract would be fair value. And he has been replaced with a hope and a prayer in Boyes.

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07-03-2012, 09:36 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
Some care because it wasn't a good 5-on-5 line. The only plus month JT had was when PAP was not on the line. The line wasn't strong against top teams in the East outside of the Rags. The line didn't earn a single point in 6 games against the Pens. JT was the most dominant physical player on the line and our top-6 is small.

I expect PAP to be fine if paired with Matt Duchene in a 2nd line scoring role. I'd expect them to potentially use PAP in 1st line PP duty, as well. He'll be successful there, but he wasn't worth keeping for four years here. Simply put, we don't have the right center to glue PAP to.

My anger at Garth (and Wang) will be reserved for when we yet again scrape the bottom of the NHL salary barrel. My anger will come out when we don't add a more physical element to our top-6 forwards or another physical player to our defense. As in, I'll be pissed when we don't plug the obvious holes in the lineup for yet another season and place all of our hopes on uncertainties.

If KO plays the whole year with Moulson and JT, I don't expect anyone to be disappointed by the results. I can't say the same for what I can currently predict with the rest of the squad as currently constituted. It is early though. I don't like judging the opening night roster until it's set. Having said that, useful players that should be within our price range have been missed out on. Some went before hitting UFA. It's Garth's move if he's allowed to make it. Something can be had. Many of us were pissed that we didn't take advantage of the Chicago RFA signing problem. Well, there tends to be one team or another who needs to move a useful player every off-season. We've got a significant amount of assets. We've got room under the LOWER LIMIT. Will we do what should be expected to improve the team for this coming season? Or are we truly handicapped by a team that is unwilling to even approach what should be the real league minimum for salaries every year?

I think it's safe to say that by the end of this off-season we should have more than enough information to make a strongly educated guess as to what our current scenario really is. I'd imagine most of us are leaning towards the team being as...ummm..."frugal" as possible. Some might say "****ing cheap". Others might say "prudent in the face off the current arena situation". I'm somewhere in between "frugal" and "****ing cheap" because I think spending a little now will actually have a higher chance at returning dollars on the overall investment.

,
Mitch
4 years isn't that long of a time in the grand scheme of things. We already have the core (or most of it) locked up. We're stretching just to make the cap floor. No PAP wasn't great 5-on-5, but with 67 points-you can't tell me there wasn't a spot for him on the roster. Would he ideally be a 2nd liner? Of course. But that's not our reality. Islanders don't exactly have top-6 (that includes 2nd liners) growing on trees.

I don't think KO would disappoint playing all year with JT and Moulson either-but here's the problem: Who takes KO's role on the 2nd line?

Here's what our current top-six forward lineup will likely be as of the moment:

Moulson-Tavares-KO
Bailey/Grabner-Nielsen-Boyes

That's pathetic. Not to mention our bottom six isn't that much better. Anybody who honestly believes we're a playoff team with that top-six is kidding themselves. Call me crazy-but after what 6 years(?) of "rebuilding"-I do expect a better top-six than that.

Here's my overall point: PAP leaving the team makes us worse. It's not a wash, and it certainly doesn't make us any better. Would we have overpayed for PAP-absolutely. But it's ok to overpay sometimes if it means your team is improved-and it doesn't cripple your cap situation.

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07-03-2012, 10:06 AM
  #371
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Year 4 will not be a problem. By year 4, the arena situation will be resolved, one way or another. If the team is even in New York at that point, it will be in a new building and will probably be willing to spend above the floor in order to fill the building.

And $4M is not a lot of money. It is second line money for a player that put up first line money last year. And you can't say it is all JT/MM. Good linemates don't take you from a 20 point player to a 67 point player. Even if PAP is only good for 50-55 points, his contract would be fair value. And he has been replaced with a hope and a prayer in Boyes.
I agree that by year 4 the arena situation will be resolved. I doubt it will be the way any of us envision, but that is for another thread.

As far as PAP, as I have said, I like him as a player and would have liked to seen him retained. However, he is, IMO, not what the Isles need on JT's wing at this point. They need a wing with size and a nasty streak that can also play in the offensive zone (Bertuzzi in his prime is my template here). PAP could do well on JT's line, or on a solid 2nd line, but he is not the make or break player - he is a complimentary player. I am also not saying that I see Boyes as his replacement - quite the contrary, I think Boyes is a 2nd line player at best.

I am not convinced the Isles are done in FA/Trade efforts and hope to see an upgrade to PAP on the first line. If they go with a rookie in that role, I will be as upset as everyone else, given that they could have kept PAP, but unlike many here, I don't see losing PAP the same as the Devs potentially losing Parise. Yes, the new deal that PAP got was manageable, and even if he matches his output from last season with the Avs this season, he is still replaceable.

I will have to respectfully disagree with your comment about good linemates not making you a better player. That just makes no sense to me. I think everyone can agree that playing on a line with JT will benefit just about anyone in the game. Can the same be said for PAP?

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07-03-2012, 10:13 AM
  #372
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I agree that by year 4 the arena situation will be resolved. I doubt it will be the way any of us envision, but that is for another thread.

As far as PAP, as I have said, I like him as a player and would have liked to seen him retained. However, he is, IMO, not what the Isles need on JT's wing at this point. They need a wing with size and a nasty streak that can also play in the offensive zone (Bertuzzi in his prime is my template here). PAP could do well on JT's line, or on a solid 2nd line, but he is not the make or break player - he is a complimentary player. I am also not saying that I see Boyes as his replacement - quite the contrary, I think Boyes is a 2nd line player at best.

I am not convinced the Isles are done in FA/Trade efforts and hope to see an upgrade to PAP on the first line. If they go with a rookie in that role, I will be as upset as everyone else, given that they could have kept PAP, but unlike many here, I don't see losing PAP the same as the Devs potentially losing Parise. Yes, the new deal that PAP got was manageable, and even if he matches his output from last season with the Avs this season, he is still replaceable.

I will have to respectfully disagree with your comment about good linemates not making you a better player. That just makes no sense to me. I think everyone can agree that playing on a line with JT will benefit just about anyone in the game. Can the same be said for PAP?
I would be shocked if the isles got a legit 1st liner to play with jt. It's not going to happen. It's a pipe dream The isles have never gotten a 1st liner as a fa to my knowledge. No reason to expect one now. We also wont be trading for one bobby Ryan or any other 1st liner won't be trades here

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07-03-2012, 10:24 AM
  #373
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4 years isn't that long of a time in the grand scheme of things. We already have the core (or most of it) locked up. We're stretching just to make the cap floor. No PAP wasn't great 5-on-5, but with 67 points-you can't tell me there wasn't a spot for him on the roster. Would he ideally be a 2nd liner? Of course. But that's not our reality. Islanders don't exactly have top-6 (that includes 2nd liners) growing on trees.

I don't think KO would disappoint playing all year with JT and Moulson either-but here's the problem: Who takes KO's role on the 2nd line?

Here's what our current top-six forward lineup will likely be as of the moment:

Moulson-Tavares-KO
Bailey/Grabner-Nielsen-Boyes

That's pathetic. Not to mention our bottom six isn't that much better. Anybody who honestly believes we're a playoff team with that top-six is kidding themselves. Call me crazy-but after what 6 years(?) of "rebuilding"-I do expect a better top-six than that.

Here's my overall point: PAP leaving the team makes us worse. It's not a wash, and it certainly doesn't make us any better. Would we have overpayed for PAP-absolutely. But it's ok to overpay sometimes if it means your team is improved-and it doesn't cripple your cap situation.
I know it's pathetic and that's kind of my point. PAP doesn't glue to anyone on the 2nd line and our 1st line failed to compete well at 5-on-5 against most of the strong teams in the East.

My point is that the the salary resources could be spent better elsewhere - like improving the makeup of the top-6 forwards (bigger players and/or better skaters with top-6 talent) or the the makeup of our centers (size definitely needed throughout.)

PAP isn't a great skater nor is he big. He's a primary area to improve and was no longer under contract.

We have players with better physical attributes in the system - better skaters and some bigger players to come. I'm not interested in locking up PAP for 4 years because of that. He doesn't fit in the longterm without something else happening.

If we signed both Jokinen and PAP for 2 years each, I wouldn't have complained one lick since they could have been used together. However, this team is afraid to spend money it would appear, so I just assumed we'd use the money for PAP/Rolston elsewhere to improve the overall lineup since we had a suitable 1st line replacement already here in KO.

Since the money that would have been required to retain PAP or the dollars spent on Rolston has yet to be spent anywhere on the current lineup, it's hard to really make a real comparison between what we are now and what we're missing. My sincere hope was always that we could find physical upgrades for the top-6, down the middle, and on defense. Retaining PAP wasn't the solution to our 5-on-5 play (of which we were one of the worst teams in hockey at ES.) Unfortunately, so far, we've yet greatly improve the top of the lineup. Carkner is nice, but we need one more big body back there. Boyes is worth a shot at that price, but he's not a sure thing and we're still small down the middle. These guys are signed for the NHL version of peanuts. Visnovsky's salary is the same we were paying Eaton while Boyes is making less than PAP's previous salary. Carkner is making less than Jurcina last year.

We've yet to spend a ****ing dime over last season. If that never happens, let's not pretend like keeping PAP was a real option anyways.

,
Mitch

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07-03-2012, 10:26 AM
  #374
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I think Kabanov is being grooomed for PA's role, This is why I believe Garth didn't want a 4+ year term for PA. PA is good but don't get me wrong the only thing he does make is make plays, THAT IS IT. He is average to below average in every other part of his game, I also believe he peaked this year in points. I know some of you are upset that he wasn't retained but we don't want to be the ones handcuffed with that contract when were trying to resign the abundance of our core.

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07-03-2012, 10:29 AM
  #375
ScaredStreit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
I know it's pathetic and that's kind of my point. PAP doesn't glue to anyone on the 2nd line and our 1st line failed to compete well at 5-on-5 against most of the strong teams in the East.

My point is that the the salary resources could be spent better elsewhere - like improving the makeup of the top-6 forwards (bigger players and/or better skaters with top-6 talent) or the the makeup of our centers (size definitely needed throughout.)

PAP isn't a great skater nor is he big. He's a primary area to improve and was no longer under contract.

We have players with better physical attributes in the system - better skaters and some bigger players to come. I'm not interested in locking up PAP for 4 years because of that. He doesn't fit in the longterm without something else happening.

If we signed both Jokinen and PAP for 2 years each, I wouldn't have complained one lick since they could have been used together. However, this team is afraid to spend money it would appear, so I just assumed we'd use the money for PAP/Rolston elsewhere to improve the overall lineup since we had a suitable 1st line replacement already here in KO.

Since the money that would have been required to retain PAP or the dollars spent on Rolston has yet to be spent anywhere on the current lineup, it's hard to really make a real comparison between what we are now and what we're missing. My sincere hope was always that we could find physical upgrades for the top-6, down the middle, and on defense. Retaining PAP wasn't the solution to our 5-on-5 play (of which we were one of the worst teams in hockey at ES.) Unfortunately, so far, we've yet greatly improve the top of the lineup. Carkner is nice, but we need one more big body back there. Boyes is worth a shot at that price, but he's not a sure thing and we're still small down the middle. These guys are signed for the NHL version of peanuts. Visnovsky's salary is the same we were paying Eaton while Boyes is making less than PAP's previous salary. Carkner is making less than Jurcina last year.

We've yet to spend a ****ing dime over last season. If that never happens, let's not pretend like keeping PAP was a real option anyways.

,
Mitch
I agree with everything you said except the parts about PAP. I don't however have any hope in this team addressing the problematic areas the team has (at least doing so efficiently). We don't even know who will be our goaltender in 2014 and honestly nanny could start to suck any given game at his age (goalies don't gradually decline).

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