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06-08-2012, 03:31 PM
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Shoalzie
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Offseason Thread (Part #Fischer)

Part #Sawchuk http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1172883

Continue spending Mr. I's money here...

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06-08-2012, 03:42 PM
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The last thread closed while I was typing a question for GentlemanMasher.

When you say "We" know Franzen is lazy, I'd like to know who the "we" are?

Do you mean overreacting fans on message boards? because from what I've seen from Management, Coaches, fellow players etc, Franzen is well respected within the team and considered a part of the Wings long term core.

You can disregard the facts/stats all you want but your personal feelings about him don't out weigh the indisputable fact that for what he gets paid, Franzen is one of the most valuable forwards in the entire league and is has the best value of any of our currently signed forwards . I don't mean he was valuable 2 years ago or even 1 year ago, I mean just this past season alone.

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06-08-2012, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
The last thread closed while I was typing a question for GentlemanMasher.

When you say "We" know Franzen is lazy, I'd like to know who the "we" are?

Do you mean overreacting fans on message boards? because from what I've seen from Management, Coaches, fellow players etc, Franzen is well respected within the team and considered a part of the Wings long term core.

You can disregard the facts/stats all you want but your personal feelings about him don't out weigh the indisputable fact that for what he gets paid, Franzen is one of the most valuable forwards in the entire league and is has the best value of any of our currently signed forwards . I don't mean he was valuable 2 years ago or even 1 year ago, I mean just this past season alone.
I think Babcock has issues with Franzen's work ethic at times, but no where near the magnitude of people around here. I think the organization knows how important Franzen can be and they need him to be that important. I really don't think any scenario where we trade Franzen and get Semin is an upgrade, it's a lateral move.

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06-08-2012, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
The last thread closed while I was typing a question for GentlemanMasher.

When you say "We" know Franzen is lazy, I'd like to know who the "we" are?

Do you mean overreacting fans on message boards? because from what I've seen from Management, Coaches, fellow players etc, Franzen is well respected within the team and considered a part of the Wings long term core.

You can disregard the facts/stats all you want but your personal feelings about him don't out weigh the indisputable fact that for what he gets paid, Franzen is one of the most valuable forwards in the entire league and is has the best value of any of our currently signed forwards . I don't mean he was valuable 2 years ago or even 1 year ago, I mean just this past season alone.
In the playoffs this year he was one lazy ass. I saw multiple times where the puck got put into the corner boards and Franzen looked at the puck and didnt even bother going for it and let the Preds pick it up and exit the zone or keep possession in the Wings zone. He was lazy and not interested in working hard. There is a reason why Babs demoted him again, but sadly it was too late.


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 06-08-2012 at 09:35 PM.
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Old
06-08-2012, 06:18 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
In the playoffs this year he was one lazy ass. I saw multiple times where the puck got put into the corner boards and Franzen looked at the puck and didnt even bother going for it and let the Preds pick it up and exit the zone or keep possession in the Wings zone. He was lazy and not interesting in working hard. There is a reason why Babs demoted him again, but sadly it was too late.
Because if Franzen were demoted earlier the Wings would've not lost in 5 games?

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06-08-2012, 06:29 PM
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Because if Franzen were demoted earlier the Wings would've not lost in 5 games?
Maybe they would have lost in six games? I certainly dont think they win the series, but the point is that Franzen is a lazy floater and his last clutch playoff performance was a very long time ago. Franzen supporters cant use that excuse anymore. "JUST WAIT TILL THE PLAYOFFS AND WATCH BEASTMODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Franzen's new beast mode consists of being a lazy floater.

He was injured last year so i gave him the benefit of the doubt, but watching him not show up this year made me realize that playoff Franzen is dead.

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06-08-2012, 06:39 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
He was injured last year so i gave him the benefit of the doubt, but watching him not show up this year made me realize that playoff Franzen is dead.
Haha, look, Franzen wasn't very good this season in the 2nd half, no doubt. But before being injured the previous season, he led the Wings in playoff points despite some people thinking he was terrible. He wasn't very good this post season, but who was? Z was pretty good. Datsyuk wasn't very good.

Making a proclamation like you're making is silly. It's like saying Babcock is a **** coach because we haven't won the cup in 4 years. Franzen needs to be better, he needs to be more motivated, but he's still super important. Franzen needs help on the roster, just like Datsyuk, just like Z.

Anyway, this team isn't very good because of the lack of talent, not because of Franzen. It'll be amazing how much better some players are if Holland finally upgrades this team.

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06-08-2012, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Haha, look, Franzen wasn't very good this season in the 2nd half, no doubt. But before being injured the previous season, he led the Wings in playoff points despite some people thinking he was terrible. He wasn't very good this post season, but who was? Z was pretty good. Datsyuk wasn't very good.

Making a proclamation like you're making is silly. It's like saying Babcock is a **** coach because we haven't won the cup in 4 years. Franzen needs to be better, he needs to be more motivated, but he's still super important. Franzen needs help on the roster, just like Datsyuk, just like Z.

Anyway, this team isn't very good because of the lack of talent, not because of Franzen. It'll be amazing how much better some players are if Holland finally upgrades this team.
I'd like Franzen to play more consistently and with more motivation, but he's a scoring winger playing alongside an elite playmaking center and with a blueline corps that up until now has included Nick Lidstrom- for what he does and is expected to do (score goals and that's about it), how much more help does he need? I know that Datsyuk had a subpar postseason by his standards, but most wingers would probably kill to play with #13.

I get the "he needs help" argument/complaint if it's a great C with no real talent on the wings, or a talented wing stuck with crappy centers, but in Franzen's case, hasn't he been in an ideal situation for his entire career?

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06-08-2012, 07:27 PM
  #9
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franzen does bring solid offence for his cap hit but for a career contract he is pretty terrible and undeserving of such recognition

few if any players can put up 30goals and 55pts for a cap hit as low as his and if thats all he si expected to do then he is a steal but with the same token, for the same cap number their are other better all around players, maybe who dont score 30 goals a season but are greater contributors to winning in other ways.

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06-08-2012, 07:44 PM
  #10
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Franzen's deal looks a little better when a tweener like David Jones pulls 16 million over 4 years. Cut some slack.

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06-08-2012, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kuick View Post
Franzen's deal looks a little better when a tweener like David Jones pulls 16 million over 4 years. Cut some slack.
their are exactly two parts to a contract, dollar and term

franzens cap hit is better but his term is worse

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06-08-2012, 07:58 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
I'd like Franzen to play more consistently and with more motivation, but he's a scoring winger playing alongside an elite playmaking center and with a blueline corps that up until now has included Nick Lidstrom- for what he does and is expected to do (score goals and that's about it), how much more help does he need? I know that Datsyuk had a subpar postseason by his standards, but most wingers would probably kill to play with #13.

I get the "he needs help" argument/complaint if it's a great C with no real talent on the wings, or a talented wing stuck with crappy centers, but in Franzen's case, hasn't he been in an ideal situation for his entire career?
Basically every player on the Wings fits this. The entire team needs help, unless you think the forward core is good enough talent/offensive wise.

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06-08-2012, 08:01 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by kuick View Post
Franzen's deal looks a little better when a tweener like David Jones pulls 16 million over 4 years. Cut some slack.
Franzen's deal was signed 3 years ago when the cap ceiling was lower, and his contract goes for another 8 seasons- Jones is only 27 and he'll be as old as Franzen is right now when his contract ends. Mule is the more established player, but with Jones coming off of 27 and 20 goal seasons, I'm not so sure that Franzen's deal is a ton better.

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06-08-2012, 08:12 PM
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Basically every player on the Wings fits this. The entire team needs help, unless you think the forward core is good enough talent/offensive wise.
Agree that then entire team needs help, and no, the forward core is not talented enough right now. That said, what else can the Wings do to help out Mule, a guy who scores goals and does nothing else, short of acquiring one of the very few centers better than Datsyuk or Zetterberg like Crosby? IMO, if Franzen played the game with Datsyuk's drive, we wouldn't be as desperate for top 6 help. We could still use an upgrade or 2 on the wing, but the need wouldn't be as dire.

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06-08-2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Turkish View Post
Agree that then entire team needs help, and no, the forward core is not talented enough right now. That said, what else can the Wings do to help out Mule, a guy who scores goals and does nothing else, short of acquiring one of the very few centers better than Datsyuk or Zetterberg like Crosby? IMO, if Franzen played the game with Datsyuk's drive, we wouldn't be as desperate for top 6 help. We could still use an upgrade or 2 on the wing, but the need wouldn't be as dire.
Like I've been saying, Franzen needs to be better, but more depth will help every single player on the team.

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06-08-2012, 08:34 PM
  #16
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If Franzen could do everything people expect of him here, he'd be a routine 40-goal scorer, monster in front of the net, and dominant at both ends of the rink.

Basically an 8 million dollar player.

Unlike the lazy conspiracy theorists, I just don't think Franzen is that good and no matter how hard he tries 30 goals with hot streaks mixed in is about what you're going to get.

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06-08-2012, 09:18 PM
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If Franzen could do everything people expect of him here, he'd be a routine 40-goal scorer, monster in front of the net, and dominant at both ends of the rink.

Basically an 8 million dollar player.

Unlike the lazy conspiracy theorists, I just don't think Franzen is that good and no matter how hard he tries 30 goals with hot streaks mixed in is about what you're going to get.
No. Back-checking, getting open for one-timers from pav, crashing the net - these are all things that require EFFORT. I don't care if he scores 25 goals if he forechecks like crazy, wins battles in the corners, and finds open ice for one-timers. No one here is complaining about production (ie numbers), we're complaining about the rest of his game, which has been worthless for the last two seasons. I can let a lack of effort in the regular season slide when he plays like a monster in the playoffs, but we haven't seen that since the 09-10 cup run (save one game 5 against the sharks). The fact is that if he's gonna play with pav or Z, he's gonna be on the ice a lot, and we can't afford to have someone who is completely invisible out there.

Right now, David Jones is actually the better player. What's frustrating is that Franzen is the more talented player. Franzen was worse than hudler last season, and the whole board would be screaming bloody murder if we gave hudler the lifetime deal franzen has.

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06-08-2012, 09:22 PM
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Right now, David Jones is actually the better player. What's frustrating is that Franzen is the more talented player. Franzen was worse than hudler last season, and the whole board would be screaming bloody murder if we gave hudler the lifetime deal franzen has.
This may be a dumb question, but in reality, what is screaming bloody murder about Franzen's deal going to get anyone at this point?

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06-08-2012, 09:35 PM
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I'd prefer Mule play with Z. Pav needs Parise on one side with Gus on the other. Or Semin

What are the odds the Wings re-sign Flip before the season starts? I'm curious to know what their plan with him is. I suppose a lot of it will have to do with how they fare during Free Agency.

Perhaps pair Dats with Flip and whomever the Wings sign. Pav and Flip had really good chemistry before. Then roll all Swedes on the 2nd line.

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06-08-2012, 09:40 PM
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I'd prefer Mule play with Z. Pav needs Parise on one side with Gus on the other. Or Semin

What are the odds the Wings re-sign Flip before the season starts? I'm curious to know what their plan with him is. I suppose a lot of it will have to do with how they fare during Free Agency.

Perhaps pair Dats with Flip and whomever the Wings sign. Pav and Flip had really good chemistry before. Then roll all Swedes on the 2nd line.

Dats-Flip-FA
Z-Mule-Gus
J.P. would like to say


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06-08-2012, 09:40 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Haha, look, Franzen wasn't very good this season in the 2nd half, no doubt. But before being injured the previous season, he led the Wings in playoff points despite some people thinking he was terrible. He wasn't very good this post season, but who was? Z was pretty good. Datsyuk wasn't very good.

Making a proclamation like you're making is silly. It's like saying Babcock is a **** coach because we haven't won the cup in 4 years. Franzen needs to be better, he needs to be more motivated, but he's still super important. Franzen needs help on the roster, just like Datsyuk, just like Z.

Anyway, this team isn't very good because of the lack of talent, not because of Franzen. It'll be amazing how much better some players are if Holland finally upgrades this team.
My problem with Franzen is that he knows he can continue to be a lazy POS because there is nothing the Wings can do to him. Ken Holland will never trade his "sacred mule" and benching doesnt work because the team has no depth and demoting to the third line is equally useless since the Wings dont have anyone to play in Franzen's position.

The guy is good, but is attitude/effort is atrocious. At least from what i can see on the ice. The guy has one monster game and he feels like it's OK to slack off for 25 games. We all forgave him because he was "saving it for the playoffs", but the Wings got bounced in the first round and he was just as ineffective has he was in the regular season.

I agree the team wasnt great this year, but it seems to me that Holland definitely views Franzen as part of the core and therefore he has responsibilities to the team and slacking off that much is beyond disappointing.

Just because everyone sucked doesnt give Franzen a free pass. He lost his free pass when he started to look like regular season Franzen in the playoffs.

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Old
06-08-2012, 09:45 PM
  #22
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J.P. would like to say

How about posting this on the Minnesota board?

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06-08-2012, 09:48 PM
  #23
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Dont feed him. Parise wants to actually win games so Minnesota is already off of his list.

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06-08-2012, 09:50 PM
  #24
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Dont feed him. Parise wants to actually win games so Minnesota is already off of his list.
Probably, but ya'll only won one more playoff game than we did.

Doesn't hurt to have a wet dream every once in a while.

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06-08-2012, 09:52 PM
  #25
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Probably, but ya'll only won one more playoff game than we did.
At least we made it to the playoffs.

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