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Roster Thoughts and Offseason Speculation for the 2012-2013 Season

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Old
06-22-2012, 12:46 PM
  #526
Quattro
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Originally Posted by Hatter View Post
LULZ at using either Carter or Richards on the third line.

simply ridiculous
This.

I can't believe how many people want to make major changes to a roster that just made one of the greatest Cup runs in history

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06-22-2012, 12:48 PM
  #527
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If healthy this season, what would you say is a good year for Clifford? 8-10 goals 10-15 assists?

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06-22-2012, 12:53 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
It's so stupid to watch them take forward after forward after forward with first round picks...and phase out other first round picks at forward top6.


Do you realize that MSP and Sam Gagner are likely on the outs, especially if they take Yakupov?


Meanwhile they got a bunch of AHLers on defense.
I know, it's gonna be funny watching them have to pay Eberle, RNH, Hall and probably Yakupov $5M+ on their 2nd contracts. While still having no quality D-Men.

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06-22-2012, 12:56 PM
  #529
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Jordan Eberle is the best player on the Oilers AINEC. Did I do that right?

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:04 PM
  #530
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What many, many people do not realize is that Clifford's upside is way higher than King's.
Cliffords peak potential is a 3rd liner whereas Kings peak potential is a 2nd liner

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06-22-2012, 01:05 PM
  #531
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http://kings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=635567
Quote:
The Hermosa Beach City Council and Hermosa Beach Chamber of Commerce will make presentations to Kings center Jarret Stoll to congratulate the team on its first Stanley Cup championship in franchise history.
Now there's a great opportunity to announce a Stoll re-signing. This event is on the 25th. Just name him Mayor of Hermosa and be done with it. The guy is staying put.

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06-22-2012, 01:11 PM
  #532
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nvm...

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:13 PM
  #533
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I am really excited to see King develop. I'd be happy with 10 goals and 20 assists this season.

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06-22-2012, 01:20 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
Cliffords peak potential is a 3rd liner whereas Kings peak potential is a 2nd liner
I think with the right mins in a couple years i can see clifford playing on the wing with carter and richards getting 15 goals 40 points easy.

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06-22-2012, 01:23 PM
  #535
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Not even close. King could be a 20 goal scorer given good ice time, I don't think Clifford is capable of that at all.

Well .....you're wrong.

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06-22-2012, 01:35 PM
  #536
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King is a better offensive player than Clifford is. I also think King is better in his own end. I've noticed many times when the puck comes along Clifford's side of the ice in the defensive zone, Clifford panics. He would turn over the puck, fail to get the puck out of his own end, or just simply ice the puck (which he did quite often).

King knows what to do with the puck more so than Clifford does. I still like Clifford though and he can still become a physical force. I think a full year with Sutter will serve him well. But as of now, he's the 13th forward on the roster. In my eyes, the play of King and Nolan made them jump ahead of Clifford. It's up to him whether or not he can move up a spot in the lineup as I think he has to compete with Brad Richardson to secure the 4th line LW spot. And Westgarth will remain the 14th player on the roster in case anything happens to Nolan or Clifford.

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06-22-2012, 01:54 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I think with the right mins in a couple years i can see clifford playing on the wing with carter and richards getting 15 goals 40 points easy.
Clifford isn't a good enough board player to get top 6 minutes and produce 40 points

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Old
06-22-2012, 01:57 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
King is a better offensive player than Clifford is. I also think King is better in his own end. I've noticed many times when the puck comes along Clifford's side of the ice in the defensive zone, Clifford panics. He would turn over the puck, fail to get the puck out of his own end, or just simply ice the puck (which he did quite often).

King knows what to do with the puck more so than Clifford does. I still like Clifford though and he can still become a physical force. I think a full year with Sutter will serve him well. But as of now, he's the 13th forward on the roster. In my eyes, the play of King and Nolan made them jump ahead of Clifford. It's up to him whether or not he can move up a spot in the lineup as I think he has to compete with Brad Richardson to secure the 4th line LW spot. And Westgarth will remain the 14th player on the roster in case anything happens to Nolan or Clifford.
Just more proof that young guys like Clifford(skill set wise as well). Really need to spend some time in the AHL. They get to play big minutes, and round out their game.

Vey is a big time supporter of the AHL, Vey said it was an eye opener for him.

Vey said it best about the AHL "You are playing against Men in this league"

This is why I think Tofolli should spend at least one year in the AHL(maybe two like King).

You screw kids up with bouncing them around lines in the NHL. They are not allowed to round out their games, cause they are not allowed to make mistakes or play big minutes.

Unless you're supremely talented, you should spend time in the AHL.


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-22-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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Old
06-22-2012, 02:02 PM
  #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
http://kings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=635567


Now there's a great opportunity to announce a Stoll re-signing. This event is on the 25th. Just name him Mayor of Hermosa and be done with it. The guy is staying put.
No kidding....does he even go "home" in the off-season like most of the other players?

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Old
06-22-2012, 02:06 PM
  #540
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No kidding....does he even go "home" in the off-season like most of the other players?
LA is his home now. He's always hear during the summers, like when the Kings had the press conference introducing Mike Richards to the media last summer, Stoll was the Kings player who attended to present Richards with his jersey. He's not leaving Cali.

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06-22-2012, 02:41 PM
  #541
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LA is his home now. He's always hear during the summers, like when the Kings had the press conference introducing Mike Richards to the media last summer, Stoll was the Kings player who attended to present Richards with his jersey. He's not leaving Cali.
Stoll has definitely become a SoCal transplant. Plus, apparently his home is the defacto team hangout/party spot. And oh how I hope there's one more Cabbie presents The Kings' Court left at Stoll's house, but I doubt it.

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Old
06-22-2012, 03:03 PM
  #542
Jason Lewis
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Well .....you're wrong.
good solid argument

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Old
06-22-2012, 03:16 PM
  #543
Jason Lewis
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Its going to be hilarious if king has a down year and clifford has a much better one.
Sophomore slumps are real and there is a good possibility that both King and Nolan, if promoted to full timers, which they should be...will have down years.

It would be a SUPREME disappointment if Clifford stays the same or has a worse season than last.

He needs to rebound in a big way. He was utterly awful last year.

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Old
06-22-2012, 03:26 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
Sophomore slumps are real and there is a good possibility that both King and Nolan, if promoted to full timers, which they should be...will have down years.

It would be a SUPREME disappointment if Clifford stays the same or has a worse season than last.

He needs to rebound in a big way. He was utterly awful last year.
Knowing Lombardi and Sutter, those guys won't have guaranteed spots. They'll have to fight for their spots in training camp just like everyone else.

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Old
06-22-2012, 03:40 PM
  #545
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Well .....you're wrong.
Great analysis. How about telling me why? What has Clifford done to make you think he has higher upside? He isn't a better skater, his hands aren't better than King's, King is better in his own zone and King is better at winning battles along the boards. King also has a much higher hockey IQ which allows him to capitalize on people's mistakes, create plays, and score goals that Clifford is incapable of.

Clifford is going to have to earn his spot on this team, or he will go to the AHL. Which is where he should be. His best attribute was his fighting ability, and he's turned into a punching bag. He needs to go down to Manchester and get his game straightened out, he'd be much better when he came back, although it's hard to find a place for him in the lineup. If Clifford stays in LA and performs at last year's level, he will be traded.

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06-22-2012, 03:54 PM
  #546
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I think Clifford will be a solid bottom line player in time, but he has always been very overrated on this board.

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06-22-2012, 03:58 PM
  #547
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Great analysis. How about telling me why? What has Clifford done to make you think he has higher upside? He isn't a better skater, his hands aren't better than King's, King is better in his own zone and King is better at winning battles along the boards. King also has a much higher hockey IQ which allows him to capitalize on people's mistakes, create plays, and score goals that Clifford is incapable of.

Clifford is going to have to earn his spot on this team, or he will go to the AHL. Which is where he should be. His best attribute was his fighting ability, and he's turned into a punching bag. He needs to go down to Manchester and get his game straightened out, he'd be much better when he came back, although it's hard to find a place for him in the lineup. If Clifford stays in LA and performs at last year's level, he will be traded.




It's funny on these boards. When we first saw these players.. everyone hated Martinez, and he has turned out fantastic. Everyone hated King and he has turned out fantastic.

Meanwhile, people had man love for Clifford, and he is looking more and more like an AHLer...people would give up their pets for Schenn and Simmonds...and they look at this point to be average players.

That's why I always trust our development staff. When they seem to have a hard-on for a player...like..say....Andrew Campbell...yet they don't have a hard-on for a guy like Loktionov...I dunno..i'll take their word for it.

They see things we don't. Or a lot of times they see things we don't want to see.

It pays off when guys like Lewis, King, Martinez and Nolan "fly under the radar" and have an impact on the team.


P.S. my biggest fear with Clifford is his defensive zone play and his hockey IQ. He is just dumb in his own zone. Purely stupid.

That's why I don't have a problem with a guy like Westgarth when he plays...**** at least he isn't a numbskull in his own zone like Clifford.

P.S.S I think Campbell makes a run at the lineup next year. He had a fantastic year in Manchester and our shutdown guys aren't exactly young. Might be time to start grooming a replacement with a few call-ups here and there. Unless we really plan on moving forward with Davis Drewiske.

There is about a 2 year window here for Campbell while we wait on Gravel and Forbort.


Last edited by Jason Lewis: 06-22-2012 at 04:06 PM.
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Old
06-22-2012, 04:05 PM
  #548
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I love Cliffy, but he needs a year in the AHL. Let his frames pack on 10 pounds of muscle, let him learn to play against men on his level, let him learn the defensive aspect a little more, when to attack, how to read plays a bit better then let him hit the NHL.

Once up he will most likely stick on the 4th with upside of a solid puck pursuit 3rd liner that could chip in 15 a year. That will still be a few years away if developed and handled properly.

Look at our team. We no longer have to rush prospects. Nolan and King put their time in, succeeded and were rewarded. It even took King a few cracks and look at the growth between his first try and his latest call up.

Developed right Cliffy will be an absolute 3rd line beast. Let him develop and mature. Can't see 20 from him but more a feisty 15 goal guy that sticks up for teamates and forechecks hard.

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Old
06-22-2012, 04:17 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
That's why I always trust our development staff. When they seem to have a hard-on for a player...like..say....Andrew Campbell...yet they don't have a hard-on for a guy like Loktionov...I dunno..i'll take their word for it.

They see things we don't. Or a lot of times they see things we don't want to see.
I agree, and I know I'm in the minority here, but with Loktionov I really don't see it. I thought for a while he'd grow into playing against players with NHL ability, but when I watched the playoffs...this kid would get killed out there. He isn't fast, but if you are small and not fast you have to be fiesty, shifty, high skilled, and able to take a beating. And considering how stacked we are down the middle, this kid has to be able to play in a checking role too or our third line will get rolled. Don't see it happening.

I think Clifford's upside is pretty much where he was at in his rookie season. Fourth line LW that can chip in with goals sometimes, fight, and mature into a checking role. He was on fourth line his rookie year, but he wasn't very good. At least not at the level of the fourth liners we had this year. He has to mature, and I think he will, but his spot on an NHL roster may not be in LA.

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06-22-2012, 04:19 PM
  #550
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I agree, and I know I'm in the minority here, but with Loktionov I really don't see it. I thought for a while he'd grow into playing against players with NHL ability, but when I watched the playoffs...this kid would get killed out there. He isn't fast, but if you are small and not fast you have to be fiesty, shifty, high skilled, and able to take a beating. And considering how stacked we are down the middle, this kid has to be able to play in a checking role too or our third line will get rolled. Don't see it happening.

I think Clifford's upside is pretty much where he was at in his rookie season. Fourth line LW that can chip in with goals sometimes, fight, and mature into a checking role. He was on fourth line his rookie year, but he wasn't very good. At least not at the level of the fourth liners we had this year. He has to mature, and I think he will, but his spot on an NHL roster may not be in LA.
I've been a big fan of Loktionov. Pulled for him at every opportunity. But i'll be reasonable as well to my expectations, he hasn't done enough to make himself into an NHL player. Maybe it's physical, or mental...but he isn't cutting it sadly.

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