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CBJ-PHI (Rick Nash rumors and proposed deals; update: traded to NYR, July 23)

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06-21-2012, 09:56 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
I'm done with this team if Homer trades Couturier. Especially if it's for ****ing Rick Nash. Seriously. Yeah, let's give up the guy who, at 19 years old, matched up brilliantly in the playoffs with the league MVP and limited him to, what, two ES points while they were on the ice against each other during the regular season? For a team as defensively challenged as this one, and which professes the importance of building down the middle, dealing Couturier for a goal-scoring winger would fly in the face of organizational philosophy.

Trading Couturier at all just doesn't make any sense to me, and for that reason I hope the Nash nonsense is nothing more than a silly rumor.
Well didn't Homer "laugh off" the Nash rumors.....that has me worried enough....but then again this is the guy that people conveniently believe when he "laughs off" or downplays other rumors that might not fit with their particular interpretations. That's why I treat Holmgren's half-truths as just that....

If they trade Couturier I will be beyond mad........I just don't see though given how Snider holds veto power....Couts is a line item veto in my books and I think it is with Snider as well....

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06-21-2012, 09:57 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
https://twitter.com/Eklund/status/215818476378533889



Eklund just made me happy, then realized that Eklund made me happy, which made me sad. This off season is starting to make me crazy.
Its been rumored by a few people, but I wouldn't be surprised if Homer had offered JvR, Read, Bob and the 1st. I could see Homer being comfortable with that, and I imagine that package beats the Rangers offer. It fits Columbus' needs (immediate offense coming back and a starting young goalie).

While I don't like Nash's cap hit, I wouldn't be upset with that trade, especially if Nash can click with Giroux and increase his point totals while being responsible defensively.

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06-21-2012, 10:01 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Schenn10 View Post
Its been rumored by a few people, but I wouldn't be surprised if Homer had offered JvR, Read, Bob and the 1st. I could see Homer being comfortable with that, and I imagine that package beats the Rangers offer. It fits Columbus' needs (immediate offense coming back and a starting young goalie).

While I don't like Nash's cap hit, I wouldn't be upset with that trade, especially if Nash can click with Giroux and increase his point totals while being responsible defensively.
Yeah I could see that package...it seems Howson wants to vindicate himself after that butt attack he got from Holmgren and he is demanding Couturier is involved. That's prolly why his name has come up and why Holmgren is laughing things off...otherwise the other half of the truth is that he is pursuing Nash just not at Howson's ridiculous price tag...

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06-21-2012, 10:03 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Well didn't Homer "laugh off" the Nash rumors.....that has me worried enough....but then again this is the guy that people conveniently believe when he "laughs off" or downplays other rumors that might not fit with their particular interpretations. That's why I treat Holmgren's half-truths as just that....

If they trade Couturier I will be beyond mad........I just don't see though given how Snider holds veto power....Couts is a line item veto in my books and I think it is with Snider as well....
Snider will never veto a trade. He has stated multiple times in the past that if he doesn't trust his GM to do the job he wouldn't have a job.

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06-21-2012, 10:04 AM
  #405
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https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...21763332935683

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Bobby Ryan and Rick Nash linked. Same teams in on both, so, if one goes, the other may move soon after
Gotta think that means we are in on Ryan as well. Would love him over Nash, just because I have a man crush on him though.

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06-21-2012, 10:08 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Snider will never veto a trade. He has stated multiple times in the past that if he doesn't trust his GM to do the job he wouldn't have a job.
Agreed. I think both men really value Couturier though. Homer has shown throughout his tenure as Flyers GM that he puts more value into the Center position than any other on the ice. Though he later traded them, don't forget he signed bother carter and Richards to extremely long term deals. He also made sure that Schenn, a center, was the centerpiece of the Richards deal, and got 2 young centers back with the draft picks obtained from the Carter trade.

This team has had no shortage of centers (in fact we have had a log jam) for the past few years. I just can't see Homer trading a young center who thrived in the NHL at 18 years old, for anything other than a #1 defenseman.

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06-21-2012, 10:12 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Snider will never veto a trade. He has stated multiple times in the past that if he doesn't trust his GM to do the job he wouldn't have a job.
So you believe Snider until you don't believe him?

Snider overruled Holmgren last year in my mind with Carter and Richards and he was fed up with the goalie situation. He didn't trust his GM last year based on the results which were plain as day (a playoff debacle against Boston and a goalie carousel). He literally made Holmgren cry last year! I don't see it as any different with Couts....especially given the positive results this time...

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06-21-2012, 10:15 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...21763332935683



Gotta think that means we are in on Ryan as well. Would love him over Nash, just because I have a man crush on him though.
I don't think the Flyers need to waste their trading bullets on more offense, but if Holmgren insists on adding another forward Ryan makes more sense. He's younger, cheaper, and is every bit as good as Nash.

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06-21-2012, 10:17 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
So you believe Snider until you don't believe him?

Snider overruled Holmgren last year in my mind with Carter and Richards and he was fed up with the goalie situation. He didn't trust his GM last year based on the results which were plain as day (a playoff debacle against Boston and a goalie carousel). He literally made Holmgren cry last year! I don't see it as any different with Couts....especially given the positive results this time...
Key words being "in your mind." We don't know if that happened. Demanding him to get a goalie is different than vetoing a trade IMO. I don't believe Holmgren will trade Couturier, but if for some reason he thought it would be a good idea I don't think Snider will prevent it from happening.

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06-21-2012, 10:24 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Key words being "in your mind." We don't know if that happened. Demanding him to get a goalie is different than vetoing a trade IMO. I don't believe Holmgren will trade Couturier, but if for some reason he thought it would be a good idea I don't think Snider will prevent it from happening.
Yes in my mind he didn't TRUST his GM (he meddled)...whether he should have or shouldn't is up for debate. In your mind you believe he doesn't hold veto power..that's fine but Snider is not exactly the type of owner who doesn't get involved. It's his team in a lot of ways. I don't buy that he lets his GM totally do what he wants..dude has control issues but I can't prove it however last year it just seemed to me he didn't trust his GM and maybe he shouldn't have....

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06-21-2012, 10:29 AM
  #411
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I am really ****** at trade proposals, but would you guys do JVR+Read+1st(either 2012 or 2013) For Ryan+schultz rights! It's just a dream fella's and ladies

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06-21-2012, 10:31 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Yes in my mind he didn't TRUST his GM (he meddled)...whether he should have or shouldn't is up for debate. In your mind you believe he doesn't hold veto power..that's fine but Snider is not exactly the type of owner who doesn't get involved. It's his team in a lot of ways. I don't buy that he lets his GM totally do what he wants..dude has control issues but I can't prove it however last year it just seemed to me he didn't trust his GM and maybe he shouldn't have....
I believe he has veto power. I don't believe he would use it. There is a difference. We all know how valuable Couturier is, but if Holmgren convinces him that trading a 19 year old for a veteran forward that helps them win now you don't think he'd be okay with that? This is an organization that has no patience to draft and develop their own core. Is it that crazy to think he'd be fine with such a trade?

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06-21-2012, 10:33 AM
  #413
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Haha. The classic "believe Eklund when you like what he says" is in full effect!

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06-21-2012, 10:35 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Is it that crazy to think he'd be fine with such a trade?
If it's for Weber NO.....but for the proposals out there for Nash etc YES..and he should veto it.

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06-21-2012, 10:38 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I am really ****** at trade proposals, but would you guys do JVR+Read+1st(either 2012 or 2013) For Ryan+schultz rights! It's just a dream fella's and ladies
In a heartbeat, but I'd bet the Ducks wouldn't.

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06-21-2012, 10:43 AM
  #416
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Haha. The classic "believe Eklund when you like what he says" is in full effect!
Well, all Eklund really said was that the report of JVR + Couturier + Bob / Mez + 1st for Nash was bogus--which I think most of us assume.

There's still plenty of room in what he said to have that package for for Nash + 2nd / JJ [I don't expect the latter].

But, yes. I am feeling somewhat more favorably disposed toward the E this morning.

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06-21-2012, 10:43 AM
  #417
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In a heartbeat, but I'd bet the Ducks wouldn't.
That deal is close to the Richards deal. Schultz I feel holds little value right now, but wouldn't hurt trying to get him and desperately try to convince him to play here.

Jeh82 and I have agreed they just want way way way way way too much for Ryan. They claim he doesn't need to be moved, but the more and more his name is out there the more likely he is getting moved. Also think Ryan has to start taking it to heart a little bit that his name has popped up so much through the last two years. Murray has to come out and say "we will not move Ryan" (unless he did and I missed it)

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06-21-2012, 10:49 AM
  #418
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I am really ****** at trade proposals, but would you guys do JVR+Read+1st(either 2012 or 2013) For Ryan+schultz rights! It's just a dream fella's and ladies
I wouldn't. I think you *might* win that deal next year, but long term you probably lose.

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06-21-2012, 10:53 AM
  #419
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That deal is close to the Richards deal. Schultz I feel holds little value right now, but wouldn't hurt trying to get him and desperately try to convince him to play here.
Schultz's value is about the same as Schenn's last year at this time. A very promising prospect who is unproven in the NHL.

While Anaheim has floated Ryan's name around quite a bit, they know what they have and I'd be surprised if they would be willing to trade him without a very good return. This time around, Homer will be bidding against other teams, not just himself.

At this point in time, JVR has to prove he's worth his paycheque, Read is a 25 year old rookie who had a fantastic year (can he repeat it?), and a 20th overall pick (which is hit or miss). If I'm Anaheim, I'm looking for more of a sure thing if I'm giving up Ryan.

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06-21-2012, 10:54 AM
  #420
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Man I would love to have bobby Ryan in orange and black. You have to think he'd love to play for his favorite childhood team too.

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06-21-2012, 10:57 AM
  #421
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Schultz's value is about the same as Schenn's last year at this time. A very promising prospect who is unproven in the NHL.

While Anaheim has floated Ryan's name around quite a bit, they know what they have and I'd be surprised if they would be willing to trade him without a very good return. This time around, Homer will be bidding against other teams, not just himself.

At this point in time, JVR has to prove he's worth his paycheque, Read is a 25 year old rookie who had a fantastic year (can he repeat it?), and a 20th overall pick (which is hit or miss). If I'm Anaheim, I'm looking for more of a sure thing if I'm giving up Ryan.
I agree with almost everything you said. It does make sense. Only thing I don't really agree on is Schultz value. He is going to be a UFA, Schenn was under contract. The writting is on the wall for Anaheim with Schultz, he will be leaving. Nobody really knows where he wants to sign, so if I was a GM I wouldn't be giving a ton up for him.

I thought JVR+Read+1st for just Ryan then is not a bad trade for both teams. Anaheim gets a player who can come close to replacing Ryan's numbers this year and a depth third liner(read) who can move up and down the lineup. The first is always hit and miss though.

Also

https://twitter.com/D_LEED/status/215835246329999361

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Don’t ask me why, but Rick Nash and Bobby Ryan are both in play in Philadelphia. I can confirm.

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06-21-2012, 10:59 AM
  #422
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Schultz's value is about the same as Schenn's last year at this time. A very promising prospect who is unproven in the NHL.
When he's speaking about Schultz's value right now being very little, he's talking about the fact that he becomes and unrestricted free agent in about 3 days, not that he isn't a promising young talent a la Schenn.

If there was confidence that Schultz would sign, his value would be considerably higher right now, but all signs point to unrestricted free agency.

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06-21-2012, 11:00 AM
  #423
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Schultz's value is about the same as Schenn's last year at this time. A very promising prospect who is unproven in the NHL.

While Anaheim has floated Ryan's name around quite a bit, they know what they have and I'd be surprised if they would be willing to trade him without a very good return. This time around, Homer will be bidding against other teams, not just himself.

At this point in time, JVR has to prove he's worth his paycheque, Read is a 25 year old rookie who had a fantastic year (can he repeat it?), and a 20th overall pick (which is hit or miss). If I'm Anaheim, I'm looking for more of a sure thing if I'm giving up Ryan.
If Schultz was signed, I think he's still a bit behind Schenn--who was the top-rated prospect. It would be close.

But Schultz is UFA in two weeks. His rights really mean very little.

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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
One would assume he means that "both" are in play in the sense that the Flyers could likely end up with one or the other, right.

To get both? Yikes on several levels.

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06-21-2012, 11:01 AM
  #424
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I agree with almost everything you said. It does make sense. Only thing I don't really agree on is Schultz value. He is going to be a UFA, Schenn was under contract. The writting is on the wall for Anaheim with Schultz, he will be leaving. Nobody really knows where he wants to sign, so if I was a GM I wouldn't be giving a ton up for him.

I thought JVR+Read+1st for just Ryan then is not a bad trade for both teams. Anaheim gets a player who can come close to replacing Ryan's numbers this year and a depth third liner(read) who can move up and down the lineup. The first is always hit and miss though.

Also

https://twitter.com/D_LEED/status/215835246329999361
Sounds legit to me!

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06-21-2012, 11:02 AM
  #425
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