HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

CBJ-PHI (Rick Nash rumors and proposed deals; update: traded to NYR, July 23)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-30-2012, 07:05 PM
  #701
Viller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I don't see how it drives down the price for Ryan. Ryan is a comparable player to Nash. Plus he's younger and cheaper.
Nash is worth alot more than Ryan just for his name, nothing to do with hockey. He's a ticket seller in this league.

I think Nash is alot more skilled than Ryan since hes done everything he has with no linemates practically. Ryan had this guy named Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry or Saku Koivu and Teemu Selanne as linemates.

Nash has never had anyone comparable.

Viller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:06 PM
  #702
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Nash is worth alot more than Ryan just for his name, nothing to do with hockey. He's a ticket seller in this league.

I think Nash is alot more skilled than Ryan since hes done everything he has with no linemates practically. Ryan had this guy named Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry or Saku Koivu and Teemu Selanne as linemates.

Nash has never had anyone comparable.
Ryan plays mostly on the 2nd line--the whole RPG thing is not as steady as people seem to think.

I'm pretty sure he finished the season with Bonino or Cogliano as his center.

In a vacuum, if they cost the same, then yes, Nash > Ryan--but age makes it a close call. With cap considered, it really isn't close--Ryan should hold more value.

Jack de la Hoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:09 PM
  #703
Viller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
God, stop it. Nash with a cap-killing contract is not what this team needs.
7.8mill is cap killing? Look at Pittsburghm they have 2 players making 8++

If Pitts gets Parise and Suter, Flyers have no choice but to respond.

edit: 10% for a first liner is affordable, not the best scenario for sure but better than going with Jagr again. (I liked Jagr but common...)

Viller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:09 PM
  #704
YuioIklo
Registered User
 
YuioIklo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Quebec
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
7.8mill is cap killing? Look at Pittsburghm they have 2 players making 8++

If Pitts gets Parise and Suter, Flyers have no choice but to respond.
Not done yet. I'd very surprised if they landed both of them.

YuioIklo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:10 PM
  #705
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Nash is worth alot more than Ryan just for his name, nothing to do with hockey. He's a ticket seller in this league.

I think Nash is alot more skilled than Ryan since hes done everything he has with no linemates practically. Ryan had this guy named Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry or Saku Koivu and Teemu Selanne as linemates.

Nash has never had anyone comparable.
There is no proof that Nash's offensive totals are depressed by playing in Columbus. How many veteran, in their prime forwards, increase their scoring when they switch teams?

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:13 PM
  #706
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
7.8mill is cap killing? Look at Pittsburghm they have 2 players making 8++

If Pitts gets Parise and Suter, Flyers have no choice but to respond.
Two 100+ point players.

Nash makes about a mil less than Crosby and is a 60+ point player.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:15 PM
  #707
YuioIklo
Registered User
 
YuioIklo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Quebec
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,518
vCash: 500
Nash is more than a 60 pts player, believe me.

YuioIklo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:18 PM
  #708
Viller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Two 100+ point players.

Nash makes about a mil less than Crosby and is a 60+ point player.
Nash is a 60 point player on columbus, playing with no one that is noteworthy. (sorry R.J.)

Slot Nash with Giroux, arguably the best playmaking center in the league, and he still gets 60 points? Please explain that one to me my good sir.

Viller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:19 PM
  #709
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
Nash is more than a 60 pts player, believe me.
Again, what veteran player improved their scoring levels significantly after switching teams? What veteran players can you say were being held back by a poor team but then went to increase their output by switching teams?

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:19 PM
  #710
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 111,839
vCash: 50
Ok, he's a 70-point player coming out of his prime.

By the way, Nash didn't even lead the team in points 5 v 5

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:23 PM
  #711
Mgkibbles
Registered User
 
Mgkibbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Gilbertsville, Pa
Posts: 2,071
vCash: 500
Homer is smarter than this, right? Right!?!?!?

Mgkibbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:27 PM
  #712
Viller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Ok, he's a 70-point player coming out of his prime.

By the way, Nash didn't even lead the team in points 5 v 5
Coming out of his prime at 28 years old... what the ****, seriously...

Viller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:28 PM
  #713
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Coming out of his prime at 28 years old... what the ****, seriously...
Statistically, I believe goal-scorers peak in their mid-20s, right?

Jack de la Hoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:30 PM
  #714
Viller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Again, what veteran player improved their scoring levels significantly after switching teams? What veteran players can you say were being held back by a poor team but then went to increase their output by switching teams?
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...ckey/index.cgi

Here, go find out yourself.

Situations like this barely ever happen, CLB aint trading him because he sucks, they are trading him because the guy wants to win and it wont happen in CLB. You guys are talking like hes 35 or something.

Viller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:31 PM
  #715
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Statistically, I believe goal-scorers peak in their mid-20s, right?
Early to mid 20s. I believe the average age of Rocket Richard winners is 24.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:32 PM
  #716
Viller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Statistically, I believe goal-scorers peak in their mid-20s, right?
Its basically impossible to prove this with the rule changes. Hasn't been long enough yet.

Viller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:32 PM
  #717
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...ckey/index.cgi

Here, go find out yourself.

Situations like this barely ever happen, CLB aint trading him because he sucks, they are trading him because the guy wants to win and it wont happen in CLB. You guys are talking like hes 35 or something.
You made the claim he is going to improve so you find the evidence to back up why you think it is true.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:34 PM
  #718
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Its basically impossible to prove this with the rule changes. Hasn't been long enough yet.
I guess that's true. On the other hand, intuitively, it seems like the rule changes benefit speed over power--and to the extent that's true, aging (beyond athletic prime) would be a negative, not a positive.

Plenty of people are stronger in their late 20s than their early 20s, right, but how many are quicker?

Jack de la Hoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:35 PM
  #719
Viller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
You made the claim he is going to improve so you find the evidence to back up why you think it is true.
Nash will improve if he plays with Claude Giroux(if no injuries to both), thats all the proof you need.

Viller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:37 PM
  #720
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Nash will improve if he plays with Claude Giroux(if no injuries to both), thats all the proof you need.
Except that's not proof. That's just you assuming something happens in the future.

Garbage Goal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:38 PM
  #721
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 13,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Nash will improve if he plays with Claude Giroux(if no injuries to both), thats all the proof you need.
I think we're getting away from the key issue here.

While some posters don't want Nash, regardless of the trade, and a few might want him, regardless of the cost, most are somewhere in between. THe issue isn't whether Nash will thrive here (I think he will), it is the relative value of the pieces it would take to get him.

As I said in the other thread, I have no issue sending Mezsaros, Read, and a 1st to Columbus. It would create some issues on the back-end, etc., but the value is there for us--though I'm not sure about Columbus. I also had no issue sending JVR + picks / prospects to CBJ for Nash.

It is the Schenn / Couturier inclusion that is bothering me.

Jack de la Hoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:39 PM
  #722
Viller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Except that's not proof. That's just you assuming something happens in the future.
Scottie scored 37 goals playing with Giroux, do I need to make a drawing or something? Stop being so ignorant.

Viller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:42 PM
  #723
Viller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I think we're getting away from the key issue here.

While some posters don't want Nash, regardless of the trade, and a few might want him, regardless of the cost, most are somewhere in between. THe issue isn't whether Nash will thrive here (I think he will), it is the relative value of the pieces it would take to get him.

As I said in the other thread, I have no issue sending Mezsaros, Read, and a 1st to Columbus. It would create some issues on the back-end, etc., but the value is there for us--though I'm not sure about Columbus. I also had no issue sending JVR + picks / prospects to CBJ for Nash.

It is the Schenn / Couturier inclusion that is bothering me.
Ive never said I was ok with sending Couts or Schenn out for Nash, hopefully this is clear.

But to say Nash wont have better statistics playing with G is just retarded. If not then your saying Giroux = Derek Brassard or Ryan Johansen, wich is very funny.

edit: You, means the clowns who were saying Nash already had his career year or will decline.

Viller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:44 PM
  #724
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viller View Post
Nash will improve if he plays with Claude Giroux(if no injuries to both), thats all the proof you need.
This is your pipe dream. You don't even know if Giroux had a career year last year. It's not a given he even repeats his performance.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2012, 07:46 PM
  #725
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Again, what veteran player improved their scoring levels significantly after switching teams? What veteran players can you say were being held back by a poor team but then went to increase their output by switching teams?
The important thing is switching teammates and systems, not just switching sweaters. Anyhow:

Teemu Selanne's age 35 season (Colorado to Anaheim, +38 points)
Martin St. Louis' age 34 season (playing with superstar Steven Stamkos, +14 points)
Jaromir Jagr's age 33 season (Washington to New York, +49 points)
Alexander Mogilny's age 31 season (Vancouver to New Jersey, +39 points)
Glen Murray's age 29 season (Los Angeles to Boston, +32 points)
Michael Cammalleri's age 27 season (Los Angeles to Calgary, +35 points)
Joe Thornton's age 26/27 seasons (Boston to San Jose, +41 points)
Marian Gaborik is a .95 PPG player since his age 27 season with NYR (vs .87 in his Wild career)

Those are just some of the jumps that came to mind. There is often an injury behind the gigantic single-season points increases, but these players also saw their PPG rise significantly for an extended period of time as well.

Damaged Goods is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.