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The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

Medvedev wants to expand to 64 teams

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Old
06-24-2012, 05:59 PM
  #226
Sokil
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Originally Posted by Jeez View Post
Isn't better to compare it with CHL,USHL fans in NA?
If you want to do that comparison (my analogy was more for big market cities with both types of teams), then those local teams (especially CHL teams in cities with no NHL team, like on the east coast and so on; small markets) are well supported - but being hockey fans in general, they still know the NHL is 'the show' and take pride if one of their alumni makes it

I couldn't count the number of times people namedropped Luongo when I was in Bathurst or Corey Crawford when I was in Moncton.

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06-24-2012, 06:14 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Sweden and Finland does not have problem with developing players, honestly they are best in Europe nowadays. Both countries have problem with elite senior leagues, wants make money but can not within domestic league. Champions League (without KHL) is not solution, Swedes and Finns must to cooperate with KHL (that means NO Champions League)
There is no "must"

Why do you think it is an either/or issue?

There is currently no European championship. Yet, European hockey still exists. It would be nice to have a European championship, which is the conclusion they came to in Barcelona - but it is obviously not a necessity or we would already have one.

So there are three options:

1. Domestic leagues
2. Domestic leagues with champions league
3. closed pan-european league.

So while a champions league would be nice. Option 1 is still obviously much preferred to option 3

You can rail against parallel competition all you want, but to say that European hockey MUST choose between that format or letting the KHL run amok across Europe makes no sense. European hockey is doing just fine. In fact, attendance is up across Europe in the past decade and seems to get better every year.

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06-25-2012, 02:59 AM
  #228
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How do you want to succeed? Domestic leagues with champions league and ignoring best clubs (KHL)? ignoring country which can finance it (Russia)? Are you serious? Really?

Look, IMO you dont understand the problem. You need to unite all top euro hockey countries to make success. You can not ignore one of them. You need money, you can not ignore Russia as country which has most money in hockey nowadays (in Europe). You need top players (at least best in Europe), so you can not ignore KHL as league where you find majority of best euro players.

Champions League without KHL is a joke, everybody knows it. KHL is not interested in CHL, so find model when domestic leagues stay AND euro clubs will play against KHL clubs. I say you, inspire in basketball.

What can happen?

1.CHL without KHL - I think it will be another failure (no prestige, no players, no money, no adds, nothing). AT THE SAME TIME KHL can accept clubs from bigger markets as Germany, Suiss.

2.do nothing - KHL will lure clubs from Europe, worst scenario for domestic leagues

3.euro cooperation with KHL - best way of future euro club hockey. It can be league as EuroBasket or so.

You are ignoring facts, it is like OG. Is it nonsense to organise olympic hockey tourney without negotiating with NHL (as most powerfull body). You are doing the same mistake, you want to create euro league without KHL (as most powerfull body in euro hockey). Olympics without NHL players are not so interesting, it is 2nd/3rd tier hockey in my eyes. The same CHL without KHL, not interesting for fans, sponsors, adds, tv etc.

You can not bring emotions (feelings) into bussiness and you (and other guys + IIHF etc) do it. Many people want to keep domestic leagues intact and create euro league. It is impossible to have both things, look at history of soccer CL. Clubs from England were against and now? Look at history, every revolution had victims and hockey is not exception. I can write many examples from history but it would be off topic.


Last edited by vorky: 06-25-2012 at 03:18 AM.
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06-25-2012, 04:15 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
EbencoyE
How do you want to succeed? Domestic leagues with champions league and ignoring best clubs (KHL)? ignoring country which can finance it (Russia)? Are you serious? Really?

Look, IMO you dont understand the problem. You need to unite all top euro hockey countries to make success. You can not ignore one of them. You need money, you can not ignore Russia as country which has most money in hockey nowadays (in Europe). You need top players (at least best in Europe), so you can not ignore KHL as league where you find majority of best euro players.

Champions League without KHL is a joke, everybody knows it. KHL is not interested in CHL, so find model when domestic leagues stay AND euro clubs will play against KHL clubs. I say you, inspire in basketball.

What can happen?

1.CHL without KHL - I think it will be another failure (no prestige, no players, no money, no adds, nothing). AT THE SAME TIME KHL can accept clubs from bigger markets as Germany, Suiss.

2.do nothing - KHL will lure clubs from Europe, worst scenario for domestic leagues

3.euro cooperation with KHL - best way of future euro club hockey. It can be league as EuroBasket or so.

You are ignoring facts, it is like OG. Is it nonsense to organise olympic hockey tourney without negotiating with NHL (as most powerfull body). You are doing the same mistake, you want to create euro league without KHL (as most powerfull body in euro hockey). Olympics without NHL players are not so interesting, it is 2nd/3rd tier hockey in my eyes. The same CHL without KHL, not interesting for fans, sponsors, adds, tv etc.

You can not bring emotions (feelings) into bussiness and you (and other guys + IIHF etc) do it. Many people want to keep domestic leagues intact and create euro league. It is impossible to have both things, look at history of soccer CL. Clubs from England were against and now? Look at history, every revolution had victims and hockey is not exception. I can write many examples from history but it would be off topic.
I still think this is probably the best scenario for everybody including domestic leagues.

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06-25-2012, 04:29 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by zorz View Post
I still think this is probably the best scenario for everybody including domestic leagues.
interesting attitude because it was said in Barcelona that clubs dont want it.

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06-25-2012, 04:39 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
European hockey is doing just fine.
Not at all. Most of countries looking better competion and high level of competitivity in game and business. Except Scandinavian countries, they have high level of competitivity in their junior league. But I hope that business part of whole thing about creating brand new KHL club can work well for them as well of us...

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06-25-2012, 04:46 AM
  #232
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I don't want any further cooperation between the KHL and European leagues. In my opinion the KHL should expand beyond FSU only if the financing does not come from Russia.

The KHL should only benefit Russian and other FSU countries hockey. Giving Russian money to finance foreign KHL teams is stupidity and wasting Russian resources for nothing.

The KHL should lure as much good foreign players, coaches and specialists as it can get, but foreign expansion with Russian money is insanity. Sometimes I don't like the attitude that the newly rich Russians have towards money. It seems they think that they just can throw away money because they have it.

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06-25-2012, 04:51 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
I don't want any further cooperation between the KHL and European leagues. In my opinion the KHL should expand beyond FSU only if the financing does not come from Russia.

The KHL should only benefit Russian and other FSU countries hockey. Giving Russian money to finance foreign KHL teams is stupidity and wasting Russian resources for nothing.

The KHL should lure as much good foreign players, coaches and specialists as it can get, but foreign expansion with Russian money is insanity. Sometimes I don't like the attitude that the newly rich Russians have towards money. It seems they think that they just can throw away money because they have it.
and they are right lol

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06-25-2012, 04:54 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by zorz View Post
and they are right lol

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06-25-2012, 05:13 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by zorz View Post
and they are right lol
Well, they should throw away their money to hockey projects inside Russia rather than abroad. There are still lots of hockey rinks to be build in Russia. And they could finance hockey equipment and licenses to kids whose parents are not wealthy enough to buy them.

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06-25-2012, 05:24 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Well, they should throw away their money to hockey projects inside Russia rather than abroad. There are still lots of hockey rinks to be build in Russia. And they could finance hockey equipment and licenses to kids whose parents are not wealthy enough to buy them.
By the way, it's better than to do nothing. Isn't it good?

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06-25-2012, 05:28 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Jeez View Post
By the way, it's better than to do nothing. Isn't it good?
What is better than to do nothing?

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06-25-2012, 05:37 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
What is better than to do nothing?
finance better european league than the neverending story about IIHF Champions league.

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06-25-2012, 05:43 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Jeez View Post
finance better european league than the neverending story about IIHF Champions league.
It is not better than nothing. Financing European league is basically giving free money to your neighbours. If I had truckloads of money I would rather keep it to myself or invest it to something that benefits me (my country) than dropping moneybags to my neighbours mailboxes.

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06-25-2012, 05:45 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
It is not better than nothing. Financing European league is basically giving free money to your neighbours. If I had truckloads of money I would rather keep it to myself or invest it to something that benefits me (my country) than dropping free money backs to my neighbours mailboxes.
I know but I'm the neighbour.

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06-25-2012, 05:48 AM
  #241
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I know but I'm the neighbour.
Yes, I'm sure you love to see quality hockey in Praha. I'm not blaming you. I blame Medvedev.

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06-25-2012, 05:56 AM
  #242
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Yes, I'm sure you love to see quality hockey in Praha. I'm not blaming you. I blame Medvedev.
IMO This is a traditional fault, as we know about history. Each pyramid must have a solid foundation. In this point of view is everybody laughing at Medvedev's plan.

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06-25-2012, 06:06 AM
  #243
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I really don't have anything against foreign KHL teams in principle as long as the money does not come from Russia. But currently the only way to sponsor foreign KHL teams is with Russian money. This is where the problem is.

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06-25-2012, 06:13 AM
  #244
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I really don't have anything against foreign KHL teams in principle as long as the money does not come from Russia. But currently the only way to sponsor foreign KHL teams is with Russian money. This is where the problem is.
Of course. I think the same. This stuff about 64 teams is not right way right now, I can't see any kind of future this idea. May be, I'm wrong. But it sounds too bad IMO.

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06-26-2012, 11:42 AM
  #245
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reccomend this video Reasons why KHL want WC in february.


Last edited by vorky: 06-26-2012 at 12:02 PM.
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06-26-2012, 01:28 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
EbencoyE
How do you want to succeed? Domestic leagues with champions league and ignoring best clubs (KHL)? ignoring country which can finance it (Russia)? Are you serious? Really?
I don't think there HAS to be a Champions tournament. Currently there is none, and most people have no problem with that. It would be nice to have one though. And yes, even without KHL teams. It would be disappointing not to have KHL involvement, but it's not necessary. Financing can be found elsewhere. Saying a Champions competition needs the KHL is like saying they need the NHL.

Quote:
Look, IMO you dont understand the problem. You need to unite all top euro hockey countries to make success. You can not ignore one of them. You need money, you can not ignore Russia as country which has most money in hockey nowadays (in Europe). You need top players (at least best in Europe), so you can not ignore KHL as league where you find majority of best euro players.
We're talking about a hockey tournament here, not a business transaction. Money is irrelevant. Hockey tournaments are held for kids all the time on very limited budgets.

Players are irrelevant too. Why do you need best euro players? The point of the tournament would be to allow competition between the best teams from each country. It has nothing to do with who has the best roster, it's about who plays the best on the ice.

Quote:
Champions League without KHL is a joke, everybody knows it. KHL is not interested in CHL, so find model when domestic leagues stay AND euro clubs will play against KHL clubs. I say you, inspire in basketball.
Champions league without KHL is not a joke at all. You only think so because you are a KHL fan. Guess what? Most people don't give two ***** about KHL. If the KHL doesn't want to play for a European championship, that is their own problem.

It is the IIHF's job to provide a European club championship whether the KHL wants to take part or not. The conversation has nothing to do with the KHL.

Quote:
1.CHL without KHL - I think it will be another failure (no prestige, no players, no money, no adds, nothing). AT THE SAME TIME KHL can accept clubs from bigger markets as Germany, Suiss.
You think a hockey tournament would be a failure because of no ads or no money? Are you a hockey fan or just a business man?

Quote:
2.do nothing - KHL will lure clubs from Europe, worst scenario for domestic leagues
More likely it would be new clubs in most of Europe. London, Paris, etc don't have good enough clubs to be lured. Only clubs from "lesser leagues" like Slovan, Riga, etc would be interested in moving.

Quote:
3.euro cooperation with KHL - best way of future euro club hockey. It can be league as EuroBasket or so.
EuroBasket is a parallel champions league. Which you don't want. It is also an open competition, which Medvedev doesn't want. This option is unrealistic.

It also doesn't make sense for rival leagues to cooperate with each other.

Quote:
You are ignoring facts, it is like OG. Is it nonsense to organise olympic hockey tourney without negotiating with NHL (as most powerfull body). You are doing the same mistake, you want to create euro league without KHL (as most powerfull body in euro hockey). Olympics without NHL players are not so interesting, it is 2nd/3rd tier hockey in my eyes. The same CHL without KHL, not interesting for fans, sponsors, adds, tv etc.
The Olympics would take a hit from not having NHL players for sure. But the Olympics are about the athletes themselves - like an all-star event.

CHL is about clubs, not players. People want to see the champion CLUBS from each league play each other. It has nothing to do with rosters.

That said, negotiating with the NHL over the OG is completely stupid too. Just like it is the IIHF's job to have a European club championship, regardless if the KHL wants to participate, it is also their job to host the Olympic tournament, regardless of support from NHL.

Private businesses are irrelevant to these kinds of international competitions. The NHL has no business trying to get money out of the Olympics. The Olympics doesn't need the NHL.

Quote:
You can not bring emotions (feelings) into bussiness and you (and other guys + IIHF etc) do it.
It's a shame you think of it as just business. Yes, I speak with feelings. Because I'm actually a hockey fan.

Quote:
Many people want to keep domestic leagues intact and create euro league. It is impossible to have both things
What on earth are you talking about? There was a European championship every year from 1965 to 2009.

A few years without one, and suddenly it's never possible?

Give me a break. Only reason there isn't one currently is because of greed of KHL. And you think KHL continuing to ruin hockey is a good thing...

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06-26-2012, 01:31 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Jeez View Post
Not at all. Most of countries looking better competion and high level of competitivity in game and business. Except Scandinavian countries, they have high level of competitivity in their junior league. But I hope that business part of whole thing about creating brand new KHL club can work well for them as well of us...
Why not hope for the NHL to expand to Europe if all you care about is better business?

As I said, attendance in Europe is up. European hockey is doing fine. You are confusing hockey and business.

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06-26-2012, 02:49 PM
  #248
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EbencoyE

KHL and euro clubs want to create league where will be euro and KHL clubs. They dont want to create league without KHL. Please, read Barcelona´s conclusions one more time.

Btw, euro federations does not have problem with rescheduling WC to february according to Shalayev

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06-26-2012, 03:25 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
Why not hope for the NHL to expand to Europe if all you care about is better business?

As I said, attendance in Europe is up. European hockey is doing fine. You are confusing hockey and business.
You're a better businessman !!! You going oversea... No, I'm likely to euro project. As kid, I felt it like mystery regarding unavailability about NHL info. I love to let it like that...


Last edited by Jeez: 06-26-2012 at 04:02 PM.
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06-28-2012, 06:37 AM
  #250
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
reccomend this video Reasons why KHL want WC in february.
Unfortenaly,most people in here don`t read or speak russian.
Can you shortly sesume what its all about?
And how can we make NHL take a brake in february? Yoy know a WC with out the best players are a joke.

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