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Rick Nash - All Purpose Thread

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:14 PM
  #126
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In what world is Nash worth 3 first rounders and a 2-way 2nd line player? These proposals are so lopsided.

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:16 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
why would cbj want MDZ when they already have jack johnson and wiznewski.

i would assume mcdonagh or krieder is coming the other way.
They were supposedly asking for MDZ at the deadline, but their demands may have changed now that they have JJ. They were asking for Kreider too. We wouldn't give him up then. We certainly won't give him up now.

McD is a complete non-starter. Turned 23 today, 1st pair dman, still has a year on his ELC. He'll be arbitration eligible next year and will get big raise, but even then, he'll make far less than Nash. I agree with Machinehead here. I wouldn't trade McD for Nash straight up.

Personally, I hope Sather stays away. Even for a good price, I want nothing to do with that contract.

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:16 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
In what world is Nash worth 3 first rounders and a 2-way 2nd line player? These proposals are so lopsided.
A lot of the Rangers first rounders are late first rounders.

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:21 PM
  #129
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I'm not sure why so many people refuse to look at last year's precedent.

Richards for Schenn+Simmonds+2nd

So, I'd suppose Nash to NYR would be for Miller+Dubinsky+1st


The Jackets arent going to get 4 assets for Nash alone. Three significant pieces for Nash is what I would expect out of this. Only way I see McDonagh going is if he replaces Dubinsky and the 1st is changed to a 2nd. But even then, I highly doubt NYR would give up McDonagh.

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:29 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by JMFJcbj View Post
A lot of the Rangers first rounders are late first rounders.
A lot of the assets being moved are proven NHL players. Not even mediocre ones. Great NHL players that were deemed as part of the core by the GM and coach.

When was the last time a player returned that much?

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:30 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I'm not sure why so many people refuse to look at last year's precedent.

Richards for Schenn+Simmonds+2nd

So, I'd suppose Nash to NYR would be for Miller+Dubinsky+1st


The Jackets arent going to get 4 assets for Nash alone. Three significant pieces for Nash is what I would expect out of this. Only way I see McDonagh going is if he replaces Dubinsky and the 1st is changed to a 2nd. But even then, I highly doubt NYR would give up McDonagh.
Richards/Carter are/were more valuable players too than Nash IMO.

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:31 PM
  #132
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Kreider

I don't understand why Kreider is so untouchable to some. Yes he is a great prospect and yes he was really good in the playoffs 18GP and 7 pts. A great start to a career but he is just a prospect with 7 career points. Nash has that many 30+ goal seasons and he is only 27. Filatov was a higher draft pick than Kreider with more hype and "can't miss" around him and had 4 goals in his first 8 games. Where is he today?

Many Ranger fans have said the goal is to win the cup next year and why not they made the final 4 this year so it seems a realistic goal.

Who gives the NYR a better chance to win a cup next year Nash or Kreider? In 2018 probably Kreider but next year I'd say Nash.

I agree Nash is overpaid and that Kreider is a great prospect (that's why I want him in Columbus) but if I were NY he would not be untouchable. If I were NYR I wouldn't give Dubi, #1, MDZ, etc etc and Kreider. Maybe Kreider, Dubi & #1 for Nash.

Perhaps Nash isn't the right guy for NYR but I still wouldn't call Kreider untouchable if I were NY.

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:44 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
In what world is Nash worth 3 first rounders and a 2-way 2nd line player? These proposals are so lopsided.
Funny, I only see one draft pick being mentioned in the discussions.

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06-13-2012, 07:45 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Funny, I only see one draft pick being mentioned in the discussions.
I was counting established NHL players drafted from the first round too....

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Old
06-13-2012, 07:48 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Richards/Carter are/were more valuable players too than Nash IMO.
I must say I agree (about Richards, at least), but for the sake of discussion, we can call it even



I could also see Kreider+Dubinsky+3rd for Nash. Would be a very similar deal as the Richards trade last year.

No matter what, I only see two real assets going to CBJ plus a draft pick. All this three or four piece deals to CBJ are fantasies, imo.

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Old
06-13-2012, 08:09 PM
  #136
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Don't want to go through all the pages to see so I will ask again.
Rangers fans, obviously McDonagh and Girardi is untouchable. I see some posters adding MDZ as part of the offer for Nash. Is Staal a untouchable as well? I would prefer Staal over MDZ. If one had to go in a Nash trade, would you rather have Staal or MDZ(you can go based on better player or based on type of defensemen you need more on the team. Assuming Staal is more defensive, while MDZ is offensive) get traded?

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Old
06-13-2012, 08:14 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by GoChill View Post
I don't understand why Kreider is so untouchable to some. Yes he is a great prospect and yes he was really good in the playoffs 18GP and 7 pts. A great start to a career but he is just a prospect with 7 career points. Nash has that many 30+ goal seasons and he is only 27. Filatov was a higher draft pick than Kreider with more hype and "can't miss" around him and had 4 goals in his first 8 games. Where is he today?

Many Ranger fans have said the goal is to win the cup next year and why not they made the final 4 this year so it seems a realistic goal.

Who gives the NYR a better chance to win a cup next year Nash or Kreider? In 2018 probably Kreider but next year I'd say Nash.

I agree Nash is overpaid and that Kreider is a great prospect (that's why I want him in Columbus) but if I were NY he would not be untouchable. If I were NYR I wouldn't give Dubi, #1, MDZ, etc etc and Kreider. Maybe Kreider, Dubi & #1 for Nash.

Perhaps Nash isn't the right guy for NYR but I still wouldn't call Kreider untouchable if I were NY.

GoChill
No one is saying Kreider is better than Nash. However having Kreider + the cap space gives the team a lot of flexibility.

Kreider at his 1.9 mil cap hit over Nash and his enormous 7.8 cap hit. Cap hit to performance wise, he is an underachieving player. It makes no sense to move ELC players for overpaid players.

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Old
06-13-2012, 08:15 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punk_o_holic View Post
Don't want to go through all the pages to see so I will ask again.
Rangers fans, obviously McDonagh and Girardi is untouchable. I see some posters adding MDZ as part of the offer for Nash. Is Staal a untouchable as well? I would prefer Staal over MDZ. If one had to go in a Nash trade, would you rather have Staal or MDZ(you can go based on better player or based on type of defensemen you need more on the team. Assuming Staal is more defensive, while MDZ is offensive) get traded?
Probably Erixon or McIlrath.

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Old
06-13-2012, 08:17 PM
  #139
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I wonder if this is a 1st a star player is on the block and instead of hearing about how Toronto has no assets we are actually agreeing Toronto makes the most sense and could offer the best package

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Old
06-13-2012, 08:23 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
I wonder if this is a 1st a star player is on the block and instead of hearing about how Toronto has no assets we are actually agreeing Toronto makes the most sense and could offer the best package
Yeah and won't have assets after it

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Old
06-13-2012, 08:39 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
I wonder if this is a 1st a star player is on the block and instead of hearing about how Toronto has no assets we are actually agreeing Toronto makes the most sense and could offer the best package
the problem is, if a bidding war erupts as is seemingly beginning teams like Boston, NY, and Philly have more assets than the Leafs do...

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Old
06-13-2012, 08:51 PM
  #142
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As others have said, girardi is a no go. Dubi mdz 1st and maybe miller is the most I go, and that's probably contingent on if Schultz is signed. Anything more would alter the team too much

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Old
06-13-2012, 09:07 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
No one is saying Kreider is better than Nash. However having Kreider + the cap space gives the team a lot of flexibility.

Kreider at his 1.9 mil cap hit over Nash and his enormous 7.8 cap hit. Cap hit to performance wise, he is an underachieving player. It makes no sense to move ELC players for overpaid players.
I basically agree with what you are saying and I admit for as good as Nash is, he is overpaid and part of the attractiveness of Kreider is his ELC.

My point is if NYR wants to win a cup right now and they are with in spitting distance of it, I wouldn't make Kreider "untouchable" as some not necessarily you have said. If you are Toronto who is almost as far from the cup as us maybe you say your best prospect is untouchable but if I am a final four team like the Rangers I would not say any rookie not matter how promising is untouchable. For the right offer I would move a prospect like Kreider for now help, maybe Nash isn't the right now help to move him for but as part of the right package I would move him. Just my opinion.

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Old
06-13-2012, 09:46 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I'm not sure why so many people refuse to look at last year's precedent.

Richards for Schenn+Simmonds+2nd

So, I'd suppose Nash to NYR would be for Miller+Dubinsky+1st



The Jackets arent going to get 4 assets for Nash alone. Three significant pieces for Nash is what I would expect out of this. Only way I see McDonagh going is if he replaces Dubinsky and the 1st is changed to a 2nd. But even then, I highly doubt NYR would give up McDonagh.
This post is as close as we are going to get in terms of rational thought.

Richards, on an overall basis is hands down the better player in comparisson to Nash.

However, another poster brought up how important this trade is for the franchise. They have to make sure they are smart with the deal and if they can squeeze another asset, they have to do that.

Miller (who I really do not want to give up), Dubi and the 1st is a very solid return.

I want to retain Miller so much that I would be willing to swap out Miller fro Anisimov AND MDZ

Call me crazy if you want.

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Old
06-13-2012, 09:47 PM
  #145
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Nash is worth Top 6 + Top Prospect + Top Pick... to Columbus

To anyone else he's worth decent roster player and a decent prospect and ....maybe a late rounder. That's just the way it goes...

To NYR: Nash

To CBJ: Dubi + someone we never heard of + 2nd rounder


If they want a better return they will have to get creative and add some other cool players

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Old
06-13-2012, 09:48 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoChill View Post
I basically agree with what you are saying and I admit for as good as Nash is, he is overpaid and part of the attractiveness of Kreider is his ELC.

My point is if NYR wants to win a cup right now and they are with in spitting distance of it, I wouldn't make Kreider "untouchable" as some not necessarily you have said. If you are Toronto who is almost as far from the cup as us maybe you say your best prospect is untouchable but if I am a final four team like the Rangers I would not say any rookie not matter how promising is untouchable. For the right offer I would move a prospect like Kreider for now help, maybe Nash isn't the right now help to move him for but as part of the right package I would move him. Just my opinion.

GoChill
don't totally DISagree, but that would have to be one hell of a player and the rest of the package has to be favorable.

asking alot? Yes.

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06-13-2012, 09:49 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I must say I agree (about Richards, at least), but for the sake of discussion, we can call it even



I could also see Kreider+Dubinsky+3rd for Nash. Would be a very similar deal as the Richards trade last year.

No matter what, I only see two real assets going to CBJ plus a draft pick. All this three or four piece deals to CBJ are fantasies, imo.
Pretty solid post on last years comparison (proposal)

Nash, Carter, and Richards are all 27 (I believe Nash has scored more goals over 5ys)

The Kreider (prospect), Dubinsky (roster player), and 3rd are almost identical in value to the Richards deal. The pick is kinda weak but hey Kreider's status has skyrocketed.

It really makes me wonder though how inflated Carters/Richards numbers were playing in that offensive machine in Philly. I don't think either scored 20 goals for the regular season this year. Carter was dinged up a little though. Makes Nash's consistensy playing for the putrid teams he's been on even more impressive. Guy probably would have been over 40 every year in Philly.

Pretty fair proposal though imo....
As a CBJ fan if this deal ever went through I'm sure Nash would score 50+ goals the Rangers would win back to back Cups and we would look like "knuckleheads" again.

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06-13-2012, 09:51 PM
  #148
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This might sound painfully obvious, but his value to certain teams is different than others. Some might pay more, some might pay less. Ultimately one side is going to have to compromise (if he gets traded).

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06-13-2012, 09:51 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by I Am Chariot View Post
If they want a better return they will have to get creative and add some other cool players
Or just keep the guy that everyone in town loves rather than making a bad trade even worse.

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06-13-2012, 09:53 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I'm not sure why so many people refuse to look at last year's precedent.

Richards for Schenn+Simmonds+2nd

So, I'd suppose Nash to NYR would be for Miller+Dubinsky+1st


The Jackets arent going to get 4 assets for Nash alone. Three significant pieces for Nash is what I would expect out of this. Only way I see McDonagh going is if he replaces Dubinsky and the 1st is changed to a 2nd. But even then, I highly doubt NYR would give up McDonagh.
Problem is,

Schenn>>>Miller
Simmonds>>Dubinsky
2nd obviously < 1st

Also, I honestly don't think Howson will be shooting for one of the defenseman, but rather Hagelin/Stepan, to be included in the deal. I think Howson, somewhat naively, is ok with the Jackets defense. He will need some offensive players back to help replace Nash, and that's what he'll be shooting for. If I'm not mistaken, he even said he would be looking for forwards. I don't expect to see a deal with NYR to go down, but if it did, it would probably be Dubinsky, Stepan/Hagelin, Erixon/Miller, 1st. In the end, I think its a two horse race between Toronto and San Jose.

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