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Rick Nash - All Purpose Thread

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Old
06-13-2012, 11:00 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
This post is as close as we are going to get in terms of rational thought.

Richards, on an overall basis is hands down the better player in comparisson to Nash.

However, another poster brought up how important this trade is for the franchise. They have to make sure they are smart with the deal and if they can squeeze another asset, they have to do that.

Miller (who I really do not want to give up), Dubi and the 1st is a very solid return.

I want to retain Miller so much that I would be willing to swap out Miller fro Anisimov AND MDZ

Call me crazy if you want.
You would give up MDZ, Dubi, Anisimov AND a first instead of miller dubi and 1st? a lot of quality roster players...

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06-13-2012, 11:05 PM
  #152
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Alright Rangers fans it's time to get your heads out of your ***** and get a reality check.

Parise has stated he will not sign with and I think he's being truthful and honest when he says that. So if you want to significantly improve your offense your options just became alot more limited. Nash is your best and really only option when it comes to a top forward and the Rangers went after him at the deadline too.

If you seriously think that Columbus is going to give up Nash for a pathetic package of Dubinsky, Erixon and a pick then you're fooling yourselves. It is going to cost you at LEAST one of Kreider or one of your top 4 young defensemen. If I'm Columbus and the Rangers refuse I tell them to get lost. You don't get a top line forward without giving up something significant. And Dubinsky, Erixon, McIlrath etc is not significant.

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06-13-2012, 11:16 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
Alright Rangers fans it's time to get your heads out of your ***** and get a reality check.

Parise has stated he will not sign with and I think he's being truthful and honest when he says that. So if you want to significantly improve your offense your options just became alot more limited. Nash is your best and really only option when it comes to a top forward and the Rangers went after him at the deadline too.

If you seriously think that Columbus is going to give up Nash for a pathetic package of Dubinsky, Erixon and a pick then you're fooling yourselves. It is going to cost you at LEAST one of Kreider or one of your top 4 young defensemen. If I'm Columbus and the Rangers refuse I tell them to get lost. You don't get a top line forward without giving up something significant. And Dubinsky, Erixon, McIlrath etc is not significant.

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06-13-2012, 11:20 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
Alright Rangers fans it's time to get your heads out of your ***** and get a reality check.

Parise has stated he will not sign with and I think he's being truthful and honest when he says that. So if you want to significantly improve your offense your options just became alot more limited. Nash is your best and really only option when it comes to a top forward and the Rangers went after him at the deadline too.

If you seriously think that Columbus is going to give up Nash for a pathetic package of Dubinsky, Erixon and a pick then you're fooling yourselves. It is going to cost you at LEAST one of Kreider or one of your top 4 young defensemen. If I'm Columbus and the Rangers refuse I tell them to get lost. You don't get a top line forward without giving up something significant. And Dubinsky, Erixon, McIlrath etc is not significant.

Dude, it's 2012 and Glen Sather is our GM

CBJ gives up Nash and in return they get Dubi and Nigle Dawes and a pick

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Old
06-13-2012, 11:21 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by GoChill View Post
I basically agree with what you are saying and I admit for as good as Nash is, he is overpaid and part of the attractiveness of Kreider is his ELC.

My point is if NYR wants to win a cup right now and they are with in spitting distance of it, I wouldn't make Kreider "untouchable" as some not necessarily you have said. If you are Toronto who is almost as far from the cup as us maybe you say your best prospect is untouchable but if I am a final four team like the Rangers I would not say any rookie not matter how promising is untouchable. For the right offer I would move a prospect like Kreider for now help, maybe Nash isn't the right now help to move him for but as part of the right package I would move him. Just my opinion.

GoChill
Quite simply because the projected difference in production between Kreider and Nash isn't enough to justify spending 6 times the cap hit. I'd much rather have the likely 20g, potential 30g scorer with the 1.325 mil cap hit instead of the 30-35g scorer with the 7.8 mil cap hit.

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06-13-2012, 11:24 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Quite simply because the projected difference in production between Kreider and Nash isn't enough to justify spending 6 times the cap hit. I'd much rather have the likely 20g, potential 30g scorer with the 1.325 mil cap hit instead of the 30-35g scorer with the 7.8 mil cap hit.
Nash could easily be a 40-50 goal scorer a year with a good center. He had 40 goal and 38 goal seasons without a good center. So call him a 30-35g scorer is completely misrepresenting his talent.

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06-13-2012, 11:27 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
Alright Rangers fans it's time to get your heads out of your ***** and get a reality check.

Parise has stated he will not sign with and I think he's being truthful and honest when he says that. So if you want to significantly improve your offense your options just became alot more limited. Nash is your best and really only option when it comes to a top forward and the Rangers went after him at the deadline too.

If you seriously think that Columbus is going to give up Nash for a pathetic package of Dubinsky, Erixon and a pick then you're fooling yourselves. It is going to cost you at LEAST one of Kreider or one of your top 4 young defensemen. If I'm Columbus and the Rangers refuse I tell them to get lost. You don't get a top line forward without giving up something significant. And Dubinsky, Erixon, McIlrath etc is not significant.
Most of us don't want anything to do with Nash. Sather may still have his eye on him, but there's no way he's going to give Howson what he wants. If that means we don't get Nash, that's fine. I'd be very happy with that.

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06-13-2012, 11:31 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by EnglishDevil View Post
As a neutral fan (as neutral as a NJ fan can be towards NYR ) i think there is a solid middle ground to be met between these two teams.

Obviously Columbus (rightfully so) will ask for a lot, presumably they want young surefire talent coming back their way for parting with their franchise player. On the NYR side of the coin, they've got a wealth of prospects, defenceman and picks; things a rebuilding Columbus team would definitely love to have.

I completely agree with the assessment that Kreider is off limits for NYR, he's clearly very gifted and had a great playoffs, he was consistently the most dangerous player on the ice against my Devils. Although Columbus fans will argue he's exactly what they should be getting back for a superstar in Rick Nash, i still think they shouldn't be too quick to sneeze at what the Rangers can potentially offer.

In my mind something along the lines of the following seems like a potentially appealing deal for both sides:

To

Rick Nash

To

Brandon Dubinsky - Clearly a talented player who struggled to find his form a little bit this season. Obviously he makes a logical starting point, as it sends a proven NHL forward (who's by no means a slouch) back to Columbus and also helps balance out the salary side of things considering the fairly large price tag that comes the Rangers way along with Nash.

Michael Del Zotto - Obviously a skilled defenceman who needs to work a little on the defensive side of his game, but has bucket loads of potential and offensive potency to boot. Although with their recent acquisition of Jack Johnson and the existing presence of Tyutin and Wisniewski on their blueline; it gives Columbus a deep, smooth skating blueline that can move the puck efficiently. I imagine MDZ as being expendable for the right price given that the Rangers have Girardi, Staal and McDonagh to lead their blueline regardless.

J.T Miller - Probably the Rangers top prospect outside of Kreider, pretty much a given that one of the two has to go back to Columbus to make this deal work; Nash is a proven superstar in this league and the Blue Jackets definitely can't replace his presence up front with Brandon Dubinsky alone. This gives Columbus a nice prospect who promises to a skilled player in the NHL sooner rather than later, something they'll definitely need to accompany their decent defensive core.

NYR 1st 2012 (28th Overall) - I believe NYR is picking 28th overall (don't throw me under the bus if i'm wrong, i didn't check; either way it's a late first from being ECF representatives and having the most points in the east). It gives Columbus another nice pick in a relatively strong depth draft that they can use to strengthen a position of weakness (I'm thinking Goaltender) that they wouldn't use their own 2nd overall pick on. There are a lot of nice goaltenders in this draft that will be available towards the end of the 1st round, having another first rounder never hurts and allows Columbus to stockpile even more depth in their prospect pool as they go through their rebuild.

-

This is merely my suggestion as a neutral fan, i think the NYR pay a sufficiently steep price to acquire their superstar forward while CBJ receive substantial quantity AND quality for their captain. Although you can argue they'd want Kreider, or Girardi/Stepan etc, i think this package is both reasonable and addresses both teams needs.

You could perhaps swap Stepan for Dubinsky without it damaging the value too much; although i'm not sure NYR fans will share my sentiment.

- EnglishDevil
This is exactly the deal that Sather will make. He won't go higher than that. If Howson doesn't come down and accept it, we walk. We're not a rebuilding team, and although we lack scoring, we're not so desperate that we need to make this move right now.

Dubinsky, Del Zotto, Miller, 1st should get it done.

I highly doubt Stepan is available for Nash, but if he were, he'd replace Dubinsky AND Del Zotto and the deal would then be Stepan, Miller(or McIlrath), and the 1st. Stepan already out produces Dubinsky and is still on his ELC, and is thus more valuable, so we'd take MDZ out of the deal if Stepan replaces Dubi.

If Howson refuses Dubinsky, Del Zotto, Miller, and a 1st, he can go deal with whatever other team on Nash's short list is willing to give more.

We're not overpaying(in assets traded) just to overpay(7.8 mil long-term contract). That's not how it works.

Del Zotto was not included in the deal at the deadline, because we didn't have an offseason to find a suitable replacement. Now that he's included, that's a lot more value going back to Columbus. Howson has lowered Nash's value and forfeited leverage by admitting Nash asked for the trade. He should feel incredibly lucky to get that return for him at this point. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Sather pulls another rabbit out of his hat and gets Nash for even less than that deal.

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06-13-2012, 11:34 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
Nash could easily be a 40-50 goal scorer a year with a good center. He had 40 goal and 38 goal seasons without a good center. So call him a 30-35g scorer is completely misrepresenting his talent.
No, calling him a 40-50 goal scorer is misrepresenting him. In the last 7 years, he's surpassed 35 goals only twice and only reached 40 goals once. If I'm a GM, I'm not giving up assets based on what I hope he will do for my team. I'm giving up assets based on what he has done in the past. And over the last 7 seasons, he has averaged 33 goals per year.

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06-13-2012, 11:34 PM
  #160
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Kreider is not being traded for an overpaid Rick Nash.

The only players Kreider would be traded for at this point are guys like Stamkos, Malkin, etc. and we know that's not happening so it's safe to say Kreider is off the table. Accept it and move on. Rick Nash has asked for a trade and he's severely overpaid. You're not getting top value for him.

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06-13-2012, 11:35 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Most of us don't want anything to do with Nash. Sather may still have his eye on him, but there's no way he's going to give Howson what he wants. If that means we don't get Nash, that's fine. I'd be very happy with that.
If you don't want Nash that's fine but tell the Ranger fans that do to quit making pathetic proposals for him.

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06-13-2012, 11:37 PM
  #162
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No, calling him a 40-50 goal scorer is misrepresenting him. In the last 7 years, he's surpassed 35 goals only twice and only reached 40 goals once. If I'm a GM, I'm not giving up assets based on what I hope he will do for my team. I'm giving up assets based on what he has done in the past. And over the last 7 seasons, he has averaged 33 goals per year.
Take your balls out of your wife's purse. It's called taking risks that's how you win cups ask Lombardi about that this year. If you don't want your team to take risks then go watch golf.

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06-13-2012, 11:44 PM
  #163
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Alright Rangers fans it's time to get your heads out of your ***** and get a reality check.

Parise has stated he will not sign with and I think he's being truthful and honest when he says that. So if you want to significantly improve your offense your options just became alot more limited. Nash is your best and really only option when it comes to a top forward and the Rangers went after him at the deadline too.

If you seriously think that Columbus is going to give up Nash for a pathetic package of Dubinsky, Erixon and a pick then you're fooling yourselves. It is going to cost you at LEAST one of Kreider or one of your top 4 young defensemen. If I'm Columbus and the Rangers refuse I tell them to get lost. You don't get a top line forward without giving up something significant. And Dubinsky, Erixon, McIlrath etc is not significant.
Columbus isn't getting Kreider. No way. That's delusional. Kreider has already scored 5x the amount of playoff goals that Nash has scored is his career, and umm his cap hit is a wee bit smaller yea? (ELC vs. $7.8 million)

Also, taking an athlete at his word is delusional. Not that most of us want Parise on the Rangers anyway. But to think that anything he said today meant something is ridiculous.

It's not "DURR NASH OR BUST". Nash has a gun to Howson's head, not Sather's. This trade, if it happens, will be on the Rangers' terms. Did I mention Kreider isn't going to be involved? Good.

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06-13-2012, 11:45 PM
  #164
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Take your balls out of your wife's purse. It's called taking risks that's how you win cups ask Lombardi about that this year. If you don't want your team to take risks then go watch golf.
Exactly....The Rangers have building up to this point for the (depth, prospects) to make a run at a guy who could possibly deliver a Cup, and then they get gunshy about the future 7-8 years down the road, and only want to part with some turds for a star player in his prime. News flash: In three to four years these "untouchables" are all gonna want raises and you'll be lucky to sign half of them....oh and Big Hank "might" just start slowing down a little by then. This is how the cycle works and window closes.

Nothing like a little HF Board fun.....

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06-13-2012, 11:47 PM
  #165
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Take your balls out of your wife's purse. It's called taking risks that's how you win cups ask Lombardi about that this year. If you don't want your team to take risks then go watch golf.
It's not about taking risks just to say you took a risk.

Lombardi was patient for YEARS, and was actually ragged on for not pulling the trigger or overpaying for the free agents they targeted.

He made the right move when he felt they were finally ready for that final piece. It worked out. It doesn't always.

And most importantly, it was Jeff Carter, who not only had known chemistry and playoff success with Mike Richards, but his contract is arguably UNDERPAYMENT for the production he's capable of.

Nash is severely overpaid for his production, hasn't had playoff success(even though it's not his fault his teams were crap), and the hope that he finds chemistry in NY is just that, a hope.

Trading assets for Nash is a much bigger risk than trading assets for Carter.

Get a grip.

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06-13-2012, 11:48 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
Alright Rangers fans it's time to get your heads out of your ***** and get a reality check.

Parise has stated he will not sign with and I think he's being truthful and honest when he says that. So if you want to significantly improve your offense your options just became alot more limited. Nash is your best and really only option when it comes to a top forward and the Rangers went after him at the deadline too.

If you seriously think that Columbus is going to give up Nash for a pathetic package of Dubinsky, Erixon and a pick then you're fooling yourselves. It is going to cost you at LEAST one of Kreider or one of your top 4 young defensemen. If I'm Columbus and the Rangers refuse I tell them to get lost. You don't get a top line forward without giving up something significant. And Dubinsky, Erixon, McIlrath etc is not significant.
Rangers balk and laugh at that request. Individually, the Rangers top 5 d-men on their own were more valuable than Nash this past season. And to add Kreider on top of that, geez.

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06-13-2012, 11:50 PM
  #167
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Nash could easily be a 40-50 goal scorer a year with a good center. He had 40 goal and 38 goal seasons without a good center. So call him a 30-35g scorer is completely misrepresenting his talent.
I don't buy this logic at all. He sucked when he played with a first line center in Carter. He is not a team player it seems and when his minutes get reduced and he plays in a stricter system where two way play is a necessity, he won't get the chances to score 40-50 goals. ]

Nash is not better than Gaborik.

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06-13-2012, 11:51 PM
  #168
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Take your balls out of your wife's purse. It's called taking risks that's how you win cups ask Lombardi about that this year. If you don't want your team to take risks then go watch golf.
Furthermore, the fact that you think Kreider is going the other way shows how out of touch with reality you really are.


Howson publicly admitted that Nash asked for a trade. Value diminished.

Nash has a short list of acceptable teams he'd waive his NTC for. Value diminished.

Nash is severely overpaid. Value diminished.

Sather has all the leverage.

The Rangers are not rebuilding, and don't NEED Nash, nor do they NEED to make a desperation move right now. We could just as easily trade fewer assets for lesser names who don't have 7.8 cap-hits, but could produce at a similar level to Nash's average 55-60 points.

What don't you understand about this?

Get. A. Grip.

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06-13-2012, 11:53 PM
  #169
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You Ranger fans make me laugh. Oh Nash is overpaid for what he produces. Well tell me how many 40 goals seasons did Marion Gaborik have before the Rangers signed him to a conservative 7.5 million per season contract. 1...wait a minute that's exactly how many 40 goals season Nash had. Hmmm but I thought Nash was way overpaid and they had to go on what they produced in the past not what they will produce in the future. Even though Nash made THE EXACT same salary as Gaborik this season.

Go back to watching the Mets lose.

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06-13-2012, 11:53 PM
  #170
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It's pretty easy to see who on this thread was chanting "We don't want you" at Nash back in the game at MSG in February.

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06-13-2012, 11:54 PM
  #171
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You Ranger fans make me laugh. Oh Nash is overpaid for what he produces. Well tell me how many 40 goals seasons did Marion Gaborik have before the Rangers signed him to a conservative 7.5 million per season contract. 1...wait a minute that's exactly how many 40 goals season Nash had. Hmmm but I thought Nash was way overpaid well even though he made THE EXACT same salary as Gaborik this season.

Go back to watching the Mets lose.
Nash has two 40-goal seasons.

Also, Gaborik's production in his first 8 years (his entire tenure in Minnesota):
502 games, 219 goals, 218 assists (437 points). 154 even-strength goals, 59 power play, 6 shorthanded. Last injured in his last year in Minnesota, which cost him 65 games. Coming off of a 17-game season when he was signed by New York.

Nash in his first 8 years (all in Columbus):
592 games, 259 goals, 229 assists (488 points). 170 even-strength goals, 77 power play, 12 shorthanded. Last injured in 2005-06 (five years prior), which was a knee and ankle injury that cost him 28 games.

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06-13-2012, 11:54 PM
  #172
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I don't buy this logic at all. He sucked when he played with a first line center in Carter. He is not a team player it seems and when his minutes get reduced and he plays in a stricter system where two way play is a necessity, he won't get the chances to score 40-50 goals. ]

Nash is not better than Gaborik.
Epic Fail dude....Carter was the total failure.

He is terrible.....he'll score a goal here and there and that is it.

And Gaborik lol....uh no....

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06-13-2012, 11:56 PM
  #173
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Nash had 59 points this year on a lottery team. PA Parenteau had 67 points on a lottery team. Gosh, I'd rather have PAP if we can get him for less than $7.8million per. And we're giving up no roster players or prospects!

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06-13-2012, 11:57 PM
  #174
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It's pretty easy to see who on this thread was chanting "We don't want you" at Nash back in the game at MSG in February.
They were chanting that at Nash? I thought they were chanting that at the Stanley Cup...

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06-13-2012, 11:58 PM
  #175
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Nash has two 40-goal seasons.
Even better he produced 2 40 goal season to Gaborik's 1 before Gaborik came to NYR. Well there goes that argument Ranger fans what else u got any little things called facts to back up your agrument...no okay then.

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