Because JVR and Voracek are not both leaving in 1 trade. That's that.
I really wouldn't have a problem with JvR and Voracek (and the rest) going to get Weber. While they both may turn out to be high quality offensive players (and already are pretty good for that matter), this team desperately needs a defenseman. Replacing JVR and Voracek won't necessarily be easy, but it would be easier than finding a franchise defenseman. As I've said before, not to harsh on JvR or take anything away from him, but the guy is expendable. He played in half the games this year and the team did not miss him (see: third highest goals for in the league). Replacing the 40-50 goals that would be lost from the two would be made a lot easier (or less necessary, perhaps) if the Flyers had Shea Weber on defense.
I guess the real issue would be the long-term deal that would have to be worked out. I don't know if I trade that much just for his rights unless I have some kind of assurance that there will be a long term deal.
I would hate to see Voracek go after the season he had, so consistent, i honestly don't know if I would give that all up for weber, can we just do JVR, bourdon and 3 firsts instead? Unless Jakub wants tons of cash I don't want him going anywhere
Keep hearing his name pop up I know many other people have already brought him up either on this particular thread or another one, what would it take to get him? Defence is more important but I like this kid a lot.....probably an idea that has no shot but just thinking here with an open mind
JETS GET
Bourdon
Mezsaros
JVR
1st round pick
FLYERS GET
Kane
Bogosian
Yeah, that's bad.
For those 2, it probably starts with JVR + MEZ + Schenn.... at the minimum
Because JVR and Voracek are not both leaving in 1 trade. That's that.
Maybe Eklund knows that Parise loves Giroux?
That's the only way the deal makes any sort of sense--and in that case, I'd probably prefer that to dealing JVR or Vorcak + Schenn...
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Zach Parise ($6.500m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.775m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Shea Weber ($7.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Matt Carle ($4.250m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,571,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster):- $271,944
(We'd need to dump Shelley and / or move Bob...yup. That's the only problem I can foresee in this plan. )
EDIT: Yes, Parise's hit looks a little low. Trade Bob, or replace Mez or Carle with Gus, and give him an extra million.
Use the remaining 2.5 million or so to find a third-liner--or bump Talbot up and sign Gaustad as a 4C.
Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 06-17-2012 at 08:36 PM.
That's the only way the deal makes any sort of sense--and in that case, I'd probably prefer that to dealing JVR or Vorcak + Schenn...
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Zach Parise ($6.500m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.775m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Shea Weber ($7.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Matt Carle ($4.250m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,571,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster):- $271,944
(We'd need to dump Shelley and / or move Bob...yup. That's the only problem I can foresee in this plan. )
No way Parise signs with a rival for that. I don't think he's signing with a rival, period.
No way Parise signs with a rival for that. I don't think he's signing with a rival, period.
I think it comes in around 7 over a billion years, but I that's fine.
If the Flyers traded Mez somewhere for a pick (or simply not sign Carle) and promoted Gus, they have plenty of cap space to adjust the totals--and could sign a 3rd line winger.
(I don't expect any of that to happen, by the way. I was just trying to find a way in which moving JVR and Voracek for Weber wouldn't cripple the line-up. All I can come up with is that the Flyers sign Parise...)
potentially, but he doesn't seem like the money chasing type. He's going to stay in NJ if he can, and if not, he's not going to screw them over by signing with an Atlantic team. He may take a lower contract for a contender (LA, DET), or take that $8m/y contract for EDM or TOR.
potentially, but he doesn't seem like the money chasing type. He's going to stay in NJ if he can, and if not, he's not going to screw them over by signing with an Atlantic team. He may take a lower contract for a contender (LA, DET), or take that $8m/y contract for EDM or TOR.
NJ will offer him 6.5M. He'll go somewhere else if they offer him enough to make it absurd not to go... ie 7.5M for 6-8 years.
NJ will offer him 6.5M. He'll go somewhere else if they offer him enough to make it absurd not to go... ie 7.5M for 6-8 years.
I have my doubts, LA or DET (or wherever Suter goes) perhaps. It also depends what NJ's future looks like. If they can land someone like Luongo to replace Marty, then I think he absolutely stays for 6.5m
Plus, he is probably retiring.. Since the Lokomotiv accident, he apparently hasn't had his mind on hockey
Just because he's old doesn't mean he can't improve the roster and help the Flyers for a year if properly managed. Old defensemen are effective contributors to NHL teams every single season. Chris Pronger was 35 during the Flyers run to the Cup in 2010. A young #1 defensemen will be extremely costly to acquire. How much are you helping yourself if you have to severely overpay? If the price is too steep, there may be a better margin in acquiring someone like Visnovsky.
There is one player I wouldn't move on this roster for Weber, Giroux. Weber is EXACTLY what this team needs, and is a lot harder to get than a top 6 forward IMO. Weber would be a cornerstone of this franchise for possibly 10+ years, I don't see JVR or Voracek reaching that level. I feel defensemen have a higher value overall than a forward, at least elite defensemen, so I think those two plus the two 1sts would be ballpark reasonable.
As for Parise, I think his value has dropped a bit over the past 2 years and $6.5M wouldn't be too unreasonable. It seems the super ridiculous high tier money is being reserved for d-men recently, and a forward of Parise's caliber would garner something around $6-7 but for 7+ years. His productivity has also dropped from an elite level IMO to a superstar level, I don't see him being top tier along the likes of Malkin and what not, just slightly under that but enough to drop his value. I also don't see him going to a rival, so it's a moot point.
And Parise is like, "Hey Roo, can I party at your place for $6.5m/year?"
Then I will excuse trading JVR, Voracek, our 2012 1st round pick, and our 1st in 2013.
Otherwise, **** no.
Giving up vanRiemsdyk and Voracek leaves: Simmonds, Read, Wellwood, and Akeson as our young, long-term wingers. JVR and Jake represent our top end wingers of the future. We cannot just give both up.
If the Flyers could get Weber for that deal, the world would get to experience a miracle. The miracle of me giving live birth to kittens through sheer joy of trade.
There is one player I wouldn't move on this roster for Weber, Giroux. Weber is EXACTLY what this team needs, and is a lot harder to get than a top 6 forward IMO. Weber would be a cornerstone of this franchise for possibly 10+ years, I don't see JVR or Voracek reaching that level. I feel defensemen have a higher value overall than a forward, at least elite defensemen, so I think those two plus the two 1sts would be ballpark reasonable.
As for Parise, I think his value has dropped a bit over the past 2 years and $6.5M wouldn't be too unreasonable. It seems the super ridiculous high tier money is being reserved for d-men recently, and a forward of Parise's caliber would garner something around $6-7 but for 7+ years. His productivity has also dropped from an elite level IMO to a superstar level, I don't see him being top tier along the likes of Malkin and what not, just slightly under that but enough to drop his value. I also don't see him going to a rival, so it's a moot point.
This is perfect. People who are saying you wouldn't give JVR and Voracek for Shea Weber are crazy. He is the number 1 defenseman in the league right now for a reason. He does everything the right way. The guy will be our top defender for many many years to come. I know he is a RFA and one year away from being a UFA, but if the Flyers got him in a trade, it would be very similar to the Pronger situation.
I would sign him to as long of a deal as he wanted. Shea Weber could hit 60-70 points in our offensive system and still provide us with that defense. JVR and Voracek both project to be around those numbers.
Flyers get
Weber
Nashville gets
JVR
Voracek
1st(2012)
1st(2013)
Sign me up right now. That is a great deal for both sides.
This is perfect. People who are saying you wouldn't give JVR and Voracek for Shea Weber are crazy. He is the number 1 defenseman in the league right now for a reason. He does everything the right way. The guy will be our top defender for many many years to come. I know he is a RFA and one year away from being a UFA, but if the Flyers got him in a trade, it would be very similar to the Pronger situation.
I would sign him to as long of a deal as he wanted. Shea Weber could hit 60-70 points in our offensive system and still provide us with that defense. JVR and Voracek both project to be around those numbers.
Flyers get
Weber
Nashville gets
JVR
Voracek
1st(2012)
1st(2013)
Sign me up right now. That is a great deal for both sides.
I too would do that deal. It would hurt, but Weber would change the future of this team... not to mention that I trust our ability to find and acquire more forwards over the next 2-3 years.
Cooter would be the hardest for me to move, but I also think moving someone of his caliber, who has more value than either JVR or Voracek, would leave us with more overall depth. I'd hate to lose him though.
I just don't see how anyone wouldn't want Weber for any reasonable price. He's so effin' good. I have hesitation over Suter...not a single second thought over Weber. I don't regret the Pronger trade for a second and I'd be happy to give up similar value for a better overall value (career length a big factor over skill).
Cooter would be the hardest for me to move, but I also think moving someone of his caliber, who has more value than either JVR or Voracek, would leave us with more overall depth. I'd hate to lose him though.
I just don't see how anyone wouldn't want Weber for any reasonable price. He's so effin' good. I have hesitation over Suter...not a single second thought over Weber. I don't regret the Pronger trade for a second and I'd be happy to give up similar value for a better overall value (career length a big factor over skill).
Flyers will not screw themselves up at center by trading a future franchise centerman like Coots. They value centers and believe in building from the center position. They feel you never have enough Centers. If somehow they can keep Couturier and Schenn and still acquire Weber they will have orchestrated a coup. I like Jake a lot and JVR has a lot of potential but that would be a very good deal for Philly even with having to give up a couple of number ones as well. I can see Bourdon having to be added though...
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