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Suter's Preferred Destinations in the West

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06-15-2012, 11:17 AM
  #326
Lonewolfe2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
Isn't that why the Wings are going to be pushing for Suter and Parise so hard?
Well that's the point, if Suter is there to replace Lidstrom (whom is obviously better) then just how good would that make the Red Wings?

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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Detroit might be the best run organization in all of sports. It's why i respect them so much. This whole "time is against them" thing has been spewed by their competition for 20 years. I'll bet on Detroit not falling into obscurity.
Obscurity? No one ever said Detroit would become obscure. However they will eventually falter and require some retooling/rebuilding years just like all franchises do/will under the salary cap era.

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06-15-2012, 11:19 AM
  #327
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How often does a stud UFA sign with a division rival?

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06-15-2012, 11:23 AM
  #328
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Counterpoint: Suter and Weber is a chicken and the egg scenario. A failure to sign Suter reduces the chances to sign Weber, as the team will be less competitive. The preds will push extremely hard to get Suter under a long term contract and deal with weber afterwards. Weber is the better player but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Fair point if that's Weber's belief. He's still a RFA though and we see very few RFA's not agreeing to large deals if they are proposed. Nashville is still going to be a team to contend with, even with Suter leaving.

Nashville is the one situation Im really watching closely this summer. It's a pivotal moment in their recent history and it's going to be interesting which way it goes.

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06-15-2012, 11:23 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Well that's the point, if Suter is there to replace Lidstrom (whom is obviously better) then just how good would that make the Red Wings?
I think the difference in play won't be high enough for it to hurt the Wings, especially if they stack up more on offense. Lidstrom was a top 10 defenseman but he was slower than his prime years, and with Suter at a younger age than Lidstrom when he won his first Norris, I think we would have a good start on our defensive core.

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06-15-2012, 11:25 AM
  #330
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How often does a stud UFA sign with a division rival?
2006, zdeno chara

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06-15-2012, 11:27 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Well that's the point, if Suter is there to replace Lidstrom (whom is obviously better) then just how good would that make the Red Wings?



Obscurity? No one ever said Detroit would become obscure. However they will eventually falter and require some retooling/rebuilding years just like all franchises do/will under the salary cap era.
I do know this. If/When Detroit does falter, watch out NHL message boards. Opposing fans are going to have a field day with Detroit fan. Much of who have never seen their team NOT in the playoffs and a legitimate contender.

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06-15-2012, 11:28 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
I think the difference in play won't be high enough for it to hurt the Wings, especially if they stack up more on offense. Lidstrom was a top 10 defenseman but he was slower than his prime years, and with Suter at a younger age than Lidstrom when he won his first Norris, I think we would have a good start on our defensive core.
Well, I guess you have to hope Suter would see it the same way then, no?

Everyone being discussed provides a different aspect. I don't see a clear favorite team to be honest. Detroit is much older as a team and franchise, whether they will be able to sell him on history/tradition is one discussion, compared to someone like Minnesota or Colorado selling him on the future.

I've been stating for months I think San Jose is going to be the underdog somehow, so it's not like I expect my team to get him over Detroit or something. But I don't believe in the hype some red wings fans have gotten in their heads that his most likely destination is Detroit.

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06-15-2012, 11:36 AM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Detroit might be the best run organization in all of sports. It's why i respect them so much. This whole "time is against them" thing has been spewed by their competition for 20 years Lidstrom's entire career. I'll bet on Detroit not falling into obscurity.
Fixed it for you. Not that I think a return of the Dead Things era is imminent, but the number of Wings fans who are just blithely ignoring Lidstrom's retirement as though it'll have no substantial effect rather surprises me.

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06-15-2012, 11:38 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Well, I guess you have to hope Suter would see it the same way then, no?

Everyone being discussed provides a different aspect. I don't see a clear favorite team to be honest. Detroit is much older as a team and franchise, whether they will be able to sell him on history/tradition is one discussion, compared to someone like Minnesota or Colorado selling him on the future.

I've been stating for months I think San Jose is going to be the underdog somehow, so it's not like I expect my team to get him over Detroit or something. But I don't believe in the hype some red wings fans have gotten in their heads that his most likely destination is Detroit.
What's the difference between Colorado/Minnesota/StL and Nashville? If he doesnt sign with Nashville and buy into their program, why would he buy into one of the other three unless it's money generated? And if it's money generated, history says he'll choose a team that's always in the hunt (Detroit, Philly, SJ types) or the Rangers.

I'd like to see him sign in Minnesota, who I'm really high on. Just don't see it happening.

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06-15-2012, 11:39 AM
  #335
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I just want to say that all these rumors about Suter wanting to play out west was made by Tim Panotch of the Philadelphia media. Micheal Russo has talked personally to Suter's agent and said that this rumor is completely false. Micheal Russo's word >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Panotch.

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06-15-2012, 11:41 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Well that's the point, if Suter is there to replace Lidstrom (whom is obviously better) then just how good would that make the Red Wings?
Lidstrom over his career irreplaceable yes, but getting somebody to fill his shoes from where's he's been at in the last three years or so. He was still at or near the top, but he wasn't looking down on everybody else like he used to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Obscurity? No one ever said Detroit would become obscure. However they will eventually falter and require some retooling/rebuilding years just like all franchises do/will under the salary cap era.
And you know this based on the seven years the salary cap has been in place... That's not even enough time for a team to have completed the rebuild/dominate/rebuild cycle. As long as you draft well and can sign FA's to fill in the blanks you can avoid sinking the ship.

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06-15-2012, 11:45 AM
  #337
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Fixed it for you. Not that I think a return of the Dead Things era is imminent, but the number of Wings fans who are just blithely ignoring Lidstrom's retirement as though it'll have no substantial effect rather surprises me.
There's something to be said for the above. There's also something to be said for a team that's replaced Konstitinov, Fedorov, Yzerman, Shanahan, etc and kept winning.

Are the odds against Detroit continuing to be a contender every year? Pulling a Zetterberg and Datsyuk out of their rear end? Sure, but I'd be more inclined to think we'll be talking about Jarnkrok, Tvrdon and Jurco in years to come then talking about Detroit's demise.

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06-15-2012, 11:46 AM
  #338
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Lidstrom of this year was not Lidstrom of 2002, 2006, or even 2009. He was slowing down and was starting to make a lot more mistakes.

At this point in time, if the Wings were able to replace Lidstrom with Suter it would be a drop but not a huge one.

I am a lot more concerned with the F. If you sign Suter but don't get one of Parise\Semin the Wings are still hurting. Their F needs an injection of either skill, grit, or hunger. They have the players to be cup contenders but just don't have the heart.


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06-15-2012, 11:47 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Fixed it for you. Not that I think a return of the Dead Things era is imminent, but the number of Wings fans who are just blithely ignoring Lidstrom's retirement as though it'll have no substantial effect rather surprises me.
Lidstrom's departure does not change the coaching, management, ownership, scouts, development, and current players on the team.

Just a quick fyi.

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06-15-2012, 11:51 AM
  #340
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I just have a hard time seeing Suter leaving Shea Weber's shadow to play in Lidstrom's shadow.

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06-15-2012, 11:55 AM
  #341
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2006, zdeno chara
2009, Marian Hossa.

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06-15-2012, 11:56 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I just want to say that all these rumors about Suter wanting to play out west was made by Tim Panotch of the Philadelphia media. Micheal Russo has talked personally to Suter's agent and said that this rumor is completely false. Micheal Russo's word >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Panotch.
Shhh...

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06-15-2012, 11:57 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I just want to say that all these rumors about Suter wanting to play out west was made by Tim Panotch of the Philadelphia media. Micheal Russo has talked personally to Suter's agent and said that this rumor is completely false. Micheal Russo's word >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Panotch.
i thought Russo's statement was that Suter hasn't provided a list of teams? it doesn't make sense to me for a guy to rule out large chunks of the league (no East, no Canada) but not providing a list isn't the same thing as excluding the East or Canada. I'd find it incredibly funny after all this if he went with Toronto. Big city, East, Canada. Soooo hilarious!

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06-15-2012, 12:01 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Fixed it for you. Not that I think a return of the Dead Things era is imminent, but the number of Wings fans who are just blithely ignoring Lidstrom's retirement as though it'll have no substantial effect rather surprises me.
Here's the thing - was Lidstrom still great? Sure, on some level. But let's not pretend that he is the sole factor this team is still talked about as a Cup favorite year in and out. Let's be honest, his last Norris was a pitty "we think you are going to retire" Norris - the man was -2 for the season.

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06-15-2012, 12:03 PM
  #345
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And you know this based on the seven years the salary cap has been in place... That's not even enough time for a team to have completed the rebuild/dominate/rebuild cycle. As long as you draft well and can sign FA's to fill in the blanks you can avoid sinking the ship.
It's called a pattern. No matter how much you fight it, you WILL eventually have to retool. Some teams will get lucky and avoid it longer than others by making smart trades, signings or draft selections. But it doesn't prevent a decline, just delays it.

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What's the difference between Colorado/Minnesota/StL and Nashville? If he doesnt sign with Nashville and buy into their program, why would he buy into one of the other three unless it's money generated? And if it's money generated, history says he'll choose a team that's always in the hunt (Detroit, Philly, SJ types) or the Rangers.

I'd like to see him sign in Minnesota, who I'm really high on. Just don't see it happening.
Ownership concerns seem the most likely scenario for leaving Nashville. He and Weber could do some great things together on that team, no doubt. But I assume he figures if they sign together in Nashville there won't be much money left to fill out the rest of the team.

Someone like Colorado (just because I know their finances better) would be capable of plugging in Suter at his desierd salary and still have room to improve with an owner that has assured us the checkbook is ready to be used and we're just waiting on Sherman's decisions. If he felt the vision of the franchise was right and the youth was right, they could conceivably have a longer contention period than Detroit after a little more development.

But again, I don't understand why he wants a life long deal. A 4-5 year deal makes the most sense imo.

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06-15-2012, 12:03 PM
  #346
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I just have a hard time seeing Suter leaving Shea Weber's shadow to play in Lidstrom's shadow.
Odd, I don't really think anybody puts Datsyuk or Zetterberg in Yzerman's shadow...

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06-15-2012, 12:07 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Well, I guess you have to hope Suter would see it the same way then, no?
It has been established that Suter DOES feel something positive about the Wings considering it has been stated that Detroit is one of his top choices to play for if he doesn't re-up with Nashville. That is saying something.

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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Everyone being discussed provides a different aspect. I don't see a clear favorite team to be honest. Detroit is much older as a team and franchise, whether they will be able to sell him on history/tradition is one discussion, compared to someone like Minnesota or Colorado selling him on the future.
Most of my faith in Detroit's chance has to do with the cap space they have, the tradition they have, and the rumors of Detroit being a top destination for Suter.

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I've been stating for months I think San Jose is going to be the underdog somehow, so it's not like I expect my team to get him over Detroit or something. But I don't believe in the hype some red wings fans have gotten in their heads that his most likely destination is Detroit.
What hype? Most of the discourse in this thread has been trying to defend Detroit's chances at landing the guy.

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06-15-2012, 12:08 PM
  #348
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Odd, I don't really think anybody puts Datsyuk or Zetterberg in Yzerman's shadow...
Pasha and Z were signed to huge deals as UFA's to replace Stevie Y? That's news to me.

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06-15-2012, 12:09 PM
  #349
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Let's go Spock on this situation:

Suter wants to play in the West. He wants a small hockey media market...

Eliminated: Calgary, Chicago, Detroit, Edmonton, Vancouver

Teams unlikely to attract interest due to location, situation or recent success...

Eliminated: Columbus (rebuild), Dallas (not really a contender in recent years, and doesn't look to be one in next 1-3 years), Phoenix (uncertain future)

Leaves: Anaheim, Colorado, LA, Minnesota, Nashville, San Jose, St. Louis

Since I am not from the US, I can not make an educated comment on the living conditions in these areas for families - which seems to be important to Suter. Futher, I am unaware of any internal caps each team has.

I'd eliminate Anaheim, since I can't recall a big UFA they have signed over the last 10 years, who didn't already have ties with the franchise in the past or due to family reasons.
I'd say LA is out of it as well, since they have a couple of big guys to re-sign in the foreseeable future.
Minnesota has been rumored to be a favourite in the Suter discussion, but since they don't seem like an instant contender to me, I'd eliminate them as well. (Suter apparently want to be on a competitive team right away)

Leaves: Colorado, Nashville, San Jose, St. Louis

Seems to be those are the 4 Teams in question. For some reason I just can't see Suter signing in St.Louis though...can't explain why.
My gut says he is staying in Nashville. Especially since they will be going hard after him to be in a better position to sign Weber.

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06-15-2012, 12:10 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by DuckNoire View Post
Let's go Spock on this situation:

Suter wants to play in the West. He wants a small hockey media market...

Eliminated: Calgary, Chicago, Detroit, Edmonton, Vancouver

Teams unlikely to attract interest due to location, situation or recent success...

Eliminated: Columbus (rebuild), Dallas (not really a contender in recent years, and doesn't look to be one in next 1-3 years), Phoenix (uncertain future)

Leaves: Anaheim, Colorado, LA, Minnesota, Nashville, San Jose, St. Louis

Since I am not from the US, I can not make an educated comment on the living conditions in these areas for families - which seems to be important to Suter. Futher, I am unaware of any internal caps each team has.

I'd say LA is out of it, since they have a couple of big guys to re-sign in the foreseeable future.
I'd eliminate Anaheim as well, since I can't recall a big UFA they have signed over the last 10 years, who didn't already have ties with the franchise in the past or due to family reasons.
Minnesota has been rumored to be a favourite in the Suter discussion, but since they don't seem like an instant contender to me, I'd eliminate them as well. (Suter apparently want to be on a competitive team right away)

Leaves: Colorado, Nashville, San Jose, St. Louis

Seems to be those are the 4 Teams in question. For some reason I just can't see Suter signing in St.Louis though...can't explain why.
My gut says he is staying in Nashville. Especially since they will be going hard after him to be in a better position to sign Weber.
Detroit was one of his top choices. They are not eliminated, and neither are the Wild.

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