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Old
06-16-2012, 09:05 AM
  #51
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its always surprised me that Dafoe didn't get more love

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06-16-2012, 09:15 AM
  #52
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I agree Ted might be the most underrated Bruin ever. Always thought of for his meanness and the stick incident but he was a very good skater, very good positionally, and had some offensive ability also.
In Gerry Cheevers' 1971 book Goaltender, he matter-of-factly refers to Green in 68-69 as "our best defenseman that year." That's saying something with Orr, a great friend of Gerry's, having been in the NHL three years at that point.
I don't agree, but that's just my opinion. From time to time, I watch an old Bruins game on DVD from the late 60's, and the younger Orr is, the more conventionally he plays, saving his rushes at the net for the kind of opportunism you'd expect from a Dman in subsequent eras, not the vintage highlight-reel Bobby were used to from You Tube. He did, overtly, take over the game in 69-70, accepted it as his calling of sorts and went with it. Good decision with those gifts, but contrary to what Stan Fischler would have hockey fans believe, Orr was a very sound defensive defenseman prior to the complete deterioration of his left knee.
As for Green, in those early Orr years (prior to Green's head injury), I saw a guy who was always trying to do too much. His teammates loved him, but it looked to me like he was a player who struggled with Orr's emergence as their two-way leader and got himself in a lot of trouble trying to stickhandle his way through D-zone traffic when moving the puck looked like a simple option. Orr is fiercely loyal, as were all the Bruins back then, and wouldn't accept these notions of mine. But I'm just watching the games with enough time in between to have a refreshed outlook.
Green certainly was a big-time two-way defenseman, but he didn't negotiate well the changing dynamics of the team and what would have been a comfortably diminishing role. When relegated to the 5 role for his final two seasons post-head trauma, he felt pushed out and left for the WHA in '72 with a sour-grapes legacy. A bit of a shame for a heart-soul player, but that's just how it went down.

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06-16-2012, 09:17 AM
  #53
Dennis Bonvie
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Middleton and Savard probably won't ever be truly appreciated for just how good they were (Savard was elite in a Spoked B when not playing concussed and played just enough games for us to get into that legend range.)

Ted Green deserves the spot on the list by default because he was considered possibly next best defenseman in hockey after Orr (right before his injury) and having Bobby Orr as your teammate when your the next best guy at that position in the entire league isn't really great luck for your legacy is it?

Chara for sure makes the top 5 so thats 4.

No clue who is the last. Ill go Glen Murray because he replaced Guerin pretty well when all is said and done and came up with the Bruins in the Garden.
There was never a time that Ted Green was considered the next best defenseman in hockey to Orr.

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06-16-2012, 09:30 AM
  #54
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Top five has to start with Bill Cowley, whose No. 10 is not among 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 15, 24 and 77 in the TDG rafters. This is nuts and that fans aren't taught about this guy is a travesty of franchise justice. Of Cowley, it was said that he made more wings than Boeing. Here's a quickie on his legacy as a Bruin from 1935-36 to 1946-47 gleaned from the Bruins media guide and Total Hockey (NHL's publication):
Center, 5-10, 165 lbs., shot left
Played his first 41 NHL games with the St. Louis Eagles in 34-35, then was claimed by Boston in a dispersal draft.
He then played 12 straight seasons with the Bruins, winning two Stanley Cups, two Hart trophies as NHL MVP, led the league in scoring the second of those Cup years (40-41) and made four First Team NHL all-star squads (that's not NHL all-star games, that's the season-ending top six of the league, top at his position -- 4 times, and second team one other time).
His career scoring avg. would have been ppg had he not gone out of his way to give back a point awarded to him (something you don't see very much of in our lifetime, either because they're valuable $$$ or the player -- Orr's a good example -- just didn't pay attention to it.
Anyway, Cowley's No. 10 belongs near the ceiling with the other franchise greats, who have nothing on him. It's an absurd omission believed to have stemmed from a falling out he had with mgmt. Of course, we've never seen that happen to a Bruin in our lifetime. So, now that that opportunity to rant has been fully exploited, my other four is like asking for a favorite song. So the answer this week will be:
Leo Labine: Labine was Terry O'Reilly before Terry O'Reilly and at a time when the late 50's Bruins were hitting the wall against the even-more dynastic late 50's Habs.
Gregg Sheppard: Small center but nasty to play against ... led the Bruins in playoff scoring in '74, the last big year for the Orr-Espo era.
Gary Doak: Stalwart team player, shot-blocker ahead of his time, face first with no helmet and yesterday's gear, great skater, epitome of Don Cherry's lunch-pail team.
Steve Kasper: One botched situation as coach of a fast-declining team completely wiped out the goodwill he worked so hard for 8 1/2 seasons as Boston's pest center to establish.
Three of my favorites: Kasper, (forehead) Doak and Sheppard.

Kasper played against all the top lines, was considered the best defensive center in the league for awhile. Made the Bruins right out of juniors as a 19 year-old and scored 21 goals.

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06-16-2012, 09:39 AM
  #55
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Don Marcotte.

Look at his numbers and longevity. He'd make a fortune nowadays. Hell, he'd own the Selke.

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Old
06-16-2012, 09:52 AM
  #56
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In My Lifetime

Don Marcotte
Fred Stanfield
Dallas Smith
Don Awrey
Keith Crowder

------------------------

Ed Johnston
Ed Westfall
Gregg Sheppard
Randy Burridge
Michael Thelven
Gary Doak
Rick Smith
Al Sims
Dennis Seidenberg, (by everyone outside of Bruins Nation until recently)
Pater McNab
Bobby Schmautz
Dave Reid
Mike Knuble
Surprised no Cashman on your list (which is an excellent one).

Or anywhere in this thread. Is it because he played with Espo & Hodge?

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06-16-2012, 11:05 AM
  #57
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Surprised no Cashman on your list (which is an excellent one).

Or anywhere in this thread. Is it because he played with Espo & Hodge?
Good one. Cash was never face of the franchise so 12 doesn't come up when fans discuss the next number to hang, but he's sixth all-time on the team in points, which were largely the product of his dirty work in the corners. On top of that, his captaincy was six years to O'Reilly's two, and his leadership was extremely crucial in bridging the eras from the Big Bads to the Lunch Pails and then the Bourque-Pederson-Fergus-Kasper-Crowders era. Reading George Plimpton's Open Net, Cash is clearly the glue.

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06-16-2012, 11:14 AM
  #58
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1) Wayne Cashman
2) Keith Crowder
3) Jason Allison
4) Don Marcotte
5) Joe Thornton

Honorable mentions to Peter McNab, Randy Burridge, Jean Ratelle, Dallas Smith, Dave Poulin, and Byron Dafoe

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Old
06-16-2012, 11:24 AM
  #59
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Keith Crowder and Peter McNabb could be on the list.

Maybe even Jean Ratelle. He does get credit, but perhaps not as much as he could.

Peter McNabb no doubt is my #1. 9 straight 20 goal seasons, 6 straight 30 goal seasons,including two 40 goal yrs.He's also in the all-time top 10 for goals in the regular season as well as the playoffs for the Bruins.

Ratelle was dominate with the Bruins and just doesn't get the recognition he deserves. As well as Brad Park as for some reason he neither gets it despite playing great in his Bruin Career. I believe many still see them as Rangers but when they were Bruins they were Great Bruins.

Rounding out my top 5 would be Don Marcotte a defensive specialist who still managed to pot over 200 career goals and Reggie Lemelin he only played six seasons with the Bruins but he was sensational at times.

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06-16-2012, 11:26 AM
  #60
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Dead on with Pederson. Neely never matched Pedrson's best point seasons of 107 and 116 points.

I'll say Hal Gill was underappreciated,misroled and underrated

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06-16-2012, 11:29 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by doc5hole View Post
Top five has to start with Bill Cowley, whose No. 10 is not among 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 15, 24 and 77 in the TDG rafters. This is nuts and that fans aren't taught about this guy is a travesty of franchise justice. Of Cowley, it was said that he made more wings than Boeing. Here's a quickie on his legacy as a Bruin from 1935-36 to 1946-47 gleaned from the Bruins media guide and Total Hockey (NHL's publication):
Center, 5-10, 165 lbs., shot left
Played his first 41 NHL games with the St. Louis Eagles in 34-35, then was claimed by Boston in a dispersal draft.
He then played 12 straight seasons with the Bruins, winning two Stanley Cups, two Hart trophies as NHL MVP, led the league in scoring the second of those Cup years (40-41) and made four First Team NHL all-star squads (that's not NHL all-star games, that's the season-ending top six of the league, top at his position -- 4 times, and second team one other time).
His career scoring avg. would have been ppg had he not gone out of his way to give back a point awarded to him (something you don't see very much of in our lifetime, either because they're valuable $$$ or the player -- Orr's a good example -- just didn't pay attention to it.
Anyway, Cowley's No. 10 belongs near the ceiling with the other franchise greats, who have nothing on him. It's an absurd omission believed to have stemmed from a falling out he had with mgmt. Of course, we've never seen that happen to a Bruin in our lifetime. So, now that that opportunity to rant has been fully exploited, my other four is like asking for a favorite song. So the answer this week will be:
Leo Labine: Labine was Terry O'Reilly before Terry O'Reilly and at a time when the late 50's Bruins were hitting the wall against the even-more dynastic late 50's Habs.
Gregg Sheppard: Small center but nasty to play against ... led the Bruins in playoff scoring in '74, the last big year for the Orr-Espo era.
Gary Doak: Stalwart team player, shot-blocker ahead of his time, face first with no helmet and yesterday's gear, great skater, epitome of Don Cherry's lunch-pail team.
Steve Kasper: One botched situation as coach of a fast-declining team completely wiped out the goodwill he worked so hard for 8 1/2 seasons as Boston's pest center to establish.
Love the Kasper pick,I still don't blame him for the Neely,Stevens fiasco,he just didn't have the cache.

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06-16-2012, 12:15 PM
  #62
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In one concrete way: He should have won the Norris Trophy in 1977-78, another year it went to Denis Potvin. But by the time the Bruins were taking the dynastic Canadiens to six in the Cup final -- and Park had inverted Jacques Lemaire for Sports Illustrated, the Potvin voters were feeling like they blew it. They did. He was the best that year, and the Bruins had the second best record to Montreal. Park was the engine that ran that team. Got robbed.

The Bruins were so blessed to go from one elite game controller (the best of all-time), to Park and then to Bourque, nearly 35 years of uninterrupted genius in the back end with three distinct accents (actually more when you consider the evolution of Bourque's game from his jumpier early days to his two-way monster prime and his durable 90s).
Yes, this sums up perfectly my feelings on Park. I realize he's in the HOF, a MAJOR honor, and deservedly so, but I still don't think the acclaim matches the scope of his accomplishments.

It's also easy to forget now that he came into a difficult situation in Boston. Losing Orr and to a lesser extent Esposito really riled the fanbase, and Park would have been the goat if the team played poorly. But they didn't and he was one of the major reasons why.

He seems to get lost in the discussion now, even on these boards his name doesn't get mentioned as much as Orr, Bourque and even Chara. I'm not saying he's better than Orr or Bourque, but he certainly belongs in any conversation about the Bruins' all-time best defensemen.

And like I said, it's a shame his number wasn't retired, but that's more an issue of timing, his peak years were split pretty evenly between Boston and NYR. Still I was disapponted when the Ranger retired #2 in honor of Brian Leetch. He was a great player too for sure, but I thought it would have been appropriate to retire it in honor of both players, have both their names in the rafters.

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06-16-2012, 01:03 PM
  #63
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I'd change "below average" to "just average" but for the most part I agree. I certainly don't mean to say that other people's opinion is 'wrong', but to me PJA was a good (but far from great) defense-only forward that people still speak of with a love in their voice. Other than not staying a Bruin for so long, I don't understand why he's still put on such a pedestal. While it was largely because of a change in coaching strategies, the PK has been consistently better since he retired than it was with him.
When it comes to 3rd line defensive forwards, Dave Reid was a better hockey player than PJ.

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06-16-2012, 01:19 PM
  #64
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His sitch... c'mon, the guy killed a girl.
That's right, he did....a terrible situation. He royally ****ed up and it was decided that he leave. He's lucky he got only one year....and he has to live with the fact that he killed someone because of his stupidity.

Doesn't lessen the fact that he was underrated as a good defensive forward / PKer who could score 20 goals a year though. Edmonton got him and he was an integral part of 4 Stanley Cups.

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06-16-2012, 02:42 PM
  #65
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Surprised no Cashman on your list (which is an excellent one).

Or anywhere in this thread. Is it because he played with Espo & Hodge?
Outside of Boston he's underrated somewhat. As a Bruin fan I greatly appreciated Cash. He, along with Kasper, Ted Green, Axelsson were very much appreciated by B's fans I believe....at least with me anyways.

For me the two biggest were Marcotte and Stanfield.

As Wally noted, Marcotte would own the Selke in today's game. Unfortunately he played in the same era as Bob Gainey and the juggernaut Canadiens teams. If Gainey is the #1 defensive forward of all time, the Marcotte is the #2 of that era, definitley in the top 10 all-time. Definitely the best Bruin, at least post-exapnsion...that includes Kasper, PJ, Bergeron, etc...

Fred Stanfield is the forgotten Big Bad Bruin. He was the 5th man on the PP for those great yrs, played on the 2nd team PK at times, played both wing and ctr. Could shadow with the best of them or create chances, (his wingers on any given situation were Bucyk, Westfall or Marcotte). In the top 7 in the NHL for assists 4 times, (3 times in a row).

It was because of the WHA, (foremost with losing Cheevers), that saw Stanfield traded for Gilles Gilbert....and along with the expansion draft of Ed Westfall, was 1 of the 3 major reasons why the potential Bruins dynasty got sidetracked.

Outside of Boston, most hockey fans under the age of 50 go "who?" about these two guys.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hell, I got shooting stars / personal favs that were under the radar and didn't really make a big impact enough to warrant an 'underrated' tag around most folks here.

Nevin "The Kamikaze Kid" Markwart & Brent Hughes being two peas in a pod. Both were crashing pests with some offensive skills. Markwart was a poor man's Marchand until a persistent groin injury knocked him out of the game. Hughes' crash and bang style took a toll on his body and he developed and played through a back injury so severe he would've been crippled if he were hit the wrong way.....and then the B's waived him, (I'm STILL steamed about it).

Richie LeDuc - He was a favorite of mine when I saw him take a slap shot of the noggin in a Boston Braves game and he came back and played the rest of the game oozing blood from his stitches. Couldn't break into the B's lineuo and jumped to the WHA, scoring 195 goals (52 in 76/77) and 390 pts in 394 games. The B's 4th line center the year he jumped was Walt McKechnie having the worst season of his career.....I always wonder what LeDuc would've done had he stayed.

Sean O'Donnell - Was playing some of the best hockey of his career when the lockout came up and he wasn't resigned. Very underrated as a Bruin IMO and I'm still steamed about this too. He should've been resigned, but the B's resigned Ian Moran instead....wah, wah, waaaaaaah.

Jamie Rivers - The ultimate utility guy. Played both D and F, 7 teams in 12 years. An insurance waiver pickup when the B's had a few blue line injuries, played better than expected in his limited role, tied for the team lead for goals among the defensemen the year he played here, pretty astounding since he was a 3rd pairing playing less than 8:30 mins a game.

Dave Forbes - an undrafted collegian who looked like a career minor leaguer until the WHA upset the apple cart, he was a bit of a punching bag but he provided some grit and special teams work after Ace Bailey was traded away. 53 goals and 105 pts over 4 seasons, he was also sort of a side show fighter during the donnybrook years of the NHL, especially vs the Sabres...he did take on Danny Gare, Mel Bridgeman, Bob Murdoch and one time the 6'5" Joe Kowal.

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06-16-2012, 02:51 PM
  #66
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Marcotte
Dafoe
Schmautz
Wesley
Pederson

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06-16-2012, 03:42 PM
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Is like to anti-vote Dafoe.

I liked him, but we actually overrated him while he was here.

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06-16-2012, 05:06 PM
  #68
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Love the Kasper pick,I still don't blame him for the Neely,Stevens fiasco,he just didn't have the cache.
Toe Blake and Scotty Bowman combined don't have the cache to bench Neely. Kasper had enough to bench Stevens.

EDIT: In other words, no way, no how, not on your life should Neely ever have been benched in that manner. You wanna scratch him? Fine. Still a dumb move, but at least it isn't publicly humiliating.

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06-16-2012, 05:11 PM
  #69
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Toe Blake and Scotty Bowman combined don't have the cache to bench Neely. Kasper had enough to bench Stevens.

EDIT: In other words, no way, no how, not on your life should Neely ever have been benched in that manner. You wanna scratch him? Fine. Still a dumb move, but at least it isn't publicly humiliating.
Sinden expounded on the underperformance of Neey and Stevens prior,subsequently publicly supported the move and then traded Stevens. The separation of fandom from reality.

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06-16-2012, 06:23 PM
  #70
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Is like to anti-vote Dafoe.

I liked him, but we actually overrated him while he was here.

His contract holdout ended his career. It was that ugly and he was terrible coming back midseason. I think at the time of it if he wasn't the best goalie in the NHL (Hasek) he was close and in the conversation. Looking back Kolzig is the better of the two but at the time Byron held out he was the higher end guy. Stupid Bruins throwing away a season so the GM can make a point and stroke his ego.

I think he had one more good year when he would have been overrated since we thought he was that same guy once he got the contract. But getting lit up for a 3.36 GAA in the middle of your prime (dead puck era) sort of takes some heat off the fastball.

(Do people think Tim Thomas is the same goalie in 2011 if he was forced to play through injury in 2010 when we had Rask and he lets in 4 goals a game in a first round exit? Course he isn't going to go from that to arguably the best season by a goaltender ever the following year.)

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06-16-2012, 06:29 PM
  #71
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Sinden expounded on the underperformance of Neey and Stevens prior,subsequently publicly supported the move and then traded Stevens. The separation of fandom from reality.
Harry had lost a LOT off his fastball by then.

Sorry, embarrassing a Masterson winner and future hall of famer like that (no matter if he had been struggling, especially given all that he'd been through by that point in his career) is the move of a guy who was in WAY over his head. It was a DB move. If Kasper wanted to prove a point and send a message he could resort to a healthy scratch. Or bench them for a period. Either accomplishes the goal without the nonsense. But Kasper was either too scared or too desperate to make the right move.

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06-16-2012, 10:04 PM
  #72
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06-16-2012, 10:50 PM
  #73
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Knuble
Best player in Europe during the lockout and nearly all elite NHLers played over there.

Shame he didn't go back to Europe a year or two ago to finish up his career over there .

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06-16-2012, 11:22 PM
  #74
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Yes, this sums up perfectly my feelings on Park. I realize he's in the HOF, a MAJOR honor, and deservedly so, but I still don't think the acclaim matches the scope of his accomplishments.

It's also easy to forget now that he came into a difficult situation in Boston. Losing Orr and to a lesser extent Esposito really riled the fanbase, and Park would have been the goat if the team played poorly. But they didn't and he was one of the major reasons why.

He seems to get lost in the discussion now, even on these boards his name doesn't get mentioned as much as Orr, Bourque and even Chara. I'm not saying he's better than Orr or Bourque, but he certainly belongs in any conversation about the Bruins' all-time best defensemen.

And like I said, it's a shame his number wasn't retired, but that's more an issue of timing, his peak years were split pretty evenly between Boston and NYR. Still I was disapponted when the Ranger retired #2 in honor of Brian Leetch. He was a great player too for sure, but I thought it would have been appropriate to retire it in honor of both players, have both their names in the rafters.
I agree about Brad Park.Brad was a tremendous passer and it's too bad we don't have someone like him at the point on the power play, nowadays.I saw Brad play in a Bruins alumni game last year.Brad should really hang up his skates,he was winded very easily and overweight[he never was slim even in his glory days] .I know the games are only fun but he sure didn't look like he was having any fun when he was on the ice .

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06-17-2012, 05:28 AM
  #75
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I agree about Thelven .He was very good in 88.He had great mobility and was a nice passer.
Sign me up for Thelven. He was awesome. Too bad his knees gave out.

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