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[TB/NSH] 2x2nd, 3rd, Caron for Lindback, K.Wilson, 7th | Lindback re-signed 2yrs/1.8m

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Old
06-16-2012, 01:21 PM
  #101
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Our best shut down D was lost early in Ohlund, Hedman was still learning and had a few injuries to deal with, Brewer looked over worked, Clark had to play too many big minutes, Kubina was too old and slow. We had a lot of issues with D last year, if Hedman continues improving that helps the top pair, Brewer plays 2nd pair where he belongs and doesn't over do his minutes that helps 2nd pair, Aullie/Lee/Mikk improve on a decent spell since they arrived our bottom pair is good. Add in 1 or 2 solid UFA's or trades and our D is respectable again. Plus Roli had a save % of 890 which is horrible.

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06-16-2012, 02:40 PM
  #102
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Defense was awful.

Garon was good, roloson was awful

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06-16-2012, 02:43 PM
  #103
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Let's not kid ourselves...the defense sucked last year. You don't let in the most goals in the league and have anywhere close to a solid defense. The defense and goaltending were awful.
Goaltending was awful, yes, defense needed help, sure. People forget the big picture though which was that the third and fourth lines really didn't do **** last year. Tom Pyatt was the only bright spot in the bottom six, and they ended up slotting him up. Connolly didn't really do ****, Dom had an off year until he was shipped out, DT and Hall both got injured. We brought in one guy off waivers, Labrie for a stint who I love but can't skate for ****, and continued to plug AHLers or waiver fodder into the bottom six who couldn't cycle, couldn't produce, and many times, couldn't defend.

But its the defenses fault.

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06-16-2012, 04:55 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Goaltending was awful, yes, defense needed help, sure. People forget the big picture though which was that the third and fourth lines really didn't do **** last year. Tom Pyatt was the only bright spot in the bottom six, and they ended up slotting him up. Connolly didn't really do ****, Dom had an off year until he was shipped out, DT and Hall both got injured. We brought in one guy off waivers, Labrie for a stint who I love but can't skate for ****, and continued to plug AHLers or waiver fodder into the bottom six who couldn't cycle, couldn't produce, and many times, couldn't defend.

But its the defenses fault.
I'm not pinning everything on the defense but they were bad last year..there's no way around that. The posts before mine were trying to pin everything on the goaltenders. Were they up to par? No but they didn't get a lot of help
from the back end either. I don't think the future on the blueline is bleak and not fixable but improvements are desperately needed and hopefully yzerman can improve it this offseason.

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06-16-2012, 05:17 PM
  #105
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Of course they go hand in hand, but they weren't anywhere near as bad as some people make them out to be or as I saw written, "one of the worst defensive squads in hockey". When Garon was on, we were playing tight enough that we were two points out of a playoff spot with a goaltender that was rolling .885 between the pipes. The "worst defensive team in hockey" doesn't do that.
I've seen just as many if not more people put sole blame on the goaltending, specifically Roli whether or not he was in the net so the extreme generalities go both ways. Goaltending, defense and bottom-6 were below average so all contributed, as well as special teams. The top-6 offense, most notably Stamkos, picked up a lot of that slack to assist with being 2 points out.

I'm not sure if you are referring to Roli or Garon with the .885 because Roli was there when he was essentially shut down the last week of Nov, and Garon was at .885 for the month of Jan. So re still being in the race despite having a goalie with a .885sv% if you are talking about Roli - let's remember he was sitting on the bench the bulk of the time. From the beginning of Dec to Garon's injury in March he had all of 9 starts.

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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
I have been saying this the entire time. All you have to do is look at the stretch where we lost what, like 2 games out of 15, or something like that when Garon was playing just solid with like a .905 SV%. We were within striking distance and then he got hurt and it went downhill with Roloson being bad (aside from one or two games, his swan songs), and Tokarski being ok but just not ready yet.
It also went downhill because around that time Yzerman was planning for next season, trading off assets for picks, seeing what Tik could do, injuries started wearing the team down, etc. Roli played decently during that time but it was too late.

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06-16-2012, 05:32 PM
  #106
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Roli played decently during that time but it was too late.
Roli played pretty good after he decided he didn't want to listen to Frantz Jean anymore....

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Old
06-16-2012, 05:49 PM
  #107
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Lightning just became my 3rd favorite team, easily. After my Preds (current hometown) and Flyers (former hometown) of course.

Always liked Tampa as you guys have sweet uniforms, add in players like Vinny, St. Louis and Stamkos, with past favs like Prospal, Fedotenko and Hamrlik, along with the best name in goalies Darren Puppa and who could forget Manon Rheaume (Lightning and Nashville Knights!)...

My love for non-traditional/southern markets as well, then throw Lindback on top of that, all under the direction of Yzerman... well, you get the picture.

I'll be pulling big time for the Bolts. Here's to hoping that Lindy brings down the hammer on the SE Division!

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06-16-2012, 06:03 PM
  #108
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Roli played pretty good after he decided he didn't want to listen to Frantz Jean anymore....
Did Roli ever come out and say specifically that Frantz gave him bad advice? He simply said he went back to something he was doing the previous year. It's just as possible that he made that initial change on his own.

I think Frantz is the scapegoat for Roli's and Smith's performances. Specifically because of Smith's praise for Burke, not because of any comments about Frantz.

It's not like Roli was an elite goaltender. It'd be one thing if we brought in Luongo and he suddenly put up numbers like Roli this year, but he's been streaky for basically his entire career.

Smith shouldn't be that much of a surprise either. He was playing poorly before Frantz got here, and he started playing very well after being called back up from Norfolk last year. He's always been a talented goalie, but he never really put everything together before this year(concussions can have that affect).


IMO, we ought to see what Frantz can do with something decent to work with before we blame everything on him.

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06-16-2012, 06:07 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
Lightning just became my 3rd favorite team, easily. After my Preds (current hometown) and Flyers (former hometown) of course.

Always liked Tampa as you guys have sweet uniforms, add in players like Vinny, St. Louis and Stamkos, with past favs like Prospal, Fedotenko and Hamrlik, along with the best name in goalies Darren Puppa and who could forget Manon Rheaume (Lightning and Nashville Knights!)...

My love for non-traditional/southern markets as well, then throw Lindback on top of that, all under the direction of Yzerman... well, you get the picture.

I'll be pulling big time for the Bolts. Here's to hoping that Lindy brings down the hammer on the SE Division!
Welcome to the club! Your first order of business should be to denounce your support of anything Flyers related

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Old
06-16-2012, 06:45 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
Did Roli ever come out and say specifically that Frantz gave him bad advice? He simply said he went back to something he was doing the previous year. It's just as possible that he made that initial change on his own.

I think Frantz is the scapegoat for Roli's and Smith's performances. Specifically because of Smith's praise for Burke, not because of any comments about Frantz.

It's not like Roli was an elite goaltender. It'd be one thing if we brought in Luongo and he suddenly put up numbers like Roli this year, but he's been streaky for basically his entire career.

Smith shouldn't be that much of a surprise either. He was playing poorly before Frantz got here, and he started playing very well after being called back up from Norfolk last year. He's always been a talented goalie, but he never really put everything together before this year(concussions can have that affect).

IMO, we ought to see what Frantz can do with something decent to work with before we blame everything on him.
Roli never blamed Franz Jean. He may not be an elite goalie in the views of some but he has had a pretty solid career with elite stretches and has re-invented his game a couple times (probably the last active goalie who converted from stand-up to butterfly during his pro career) so he's very hard-working and dedicated to training and practice. I don't think he took anything lightly when it came to trying to improve this season.

He was very diplomatic about his comments and said the drills Jean designed weren't right for him and after trying to work with them he had to go back to his old drills - not just from last year but what had been working for many years. He was very specific about the type of drills that Jean was using with him and how they were different so he wasn't just venting. He made it clear he held Jean in high regard.

He also stated he wished he had said something earlier and that he didn't want to be an unsubordinate guy. IMO it is the coaches job to take the initiative to solve the problem, not the player and its up to the coach to be flexible with what does and doesn't work with certain goalies. Smith also alluded to flexibility IIRC. I think there could be a communication issue there - Roli should have felt comfortable enough to speak to Jean before he did and Jean should have recognized the issue. So IMO Jean is not entirely without fault. Keep in mind Jean is more used to molding young goalies, not more experienced NHL goalies who are more set in their ways. I think he's had decent material to work with, but that maybe he will have more success with the younger guys.

When Roli first came to the Bolts in 10/11, he was already playing well and in a groove behind a pretty weak team in the Isles. I remember Boucher saying they weren't doing anything with Roli to mess him up because what he was doing was working very well. Then at the beginning of the 11/12 season Boucher talked about managing Roli's minutes right from the start, and mid-season, he talked about Roli having a tough time getting used to new chemistry since it was a new team. I think they tried some new techniques/drills with him and obviously it affected his game. Maybe things would have been different with a more "hands off" approach to coaching him.

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Old
06-16-2012, 06:46 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
Did Roli ever come out and say specifically that Frantz gave him bad advice? He simply said he went back to something he was doing the previous year. It's just as possible that he made that initial change on his own.
Roli did come out and say that the things Jean wanted him to do weren't working well for him so he went back to his old way of doing things and started playing noticeably better.

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06-16-2012, 06:47 PM
  #112
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Welcome to the club! Your first order of business should be to denounce your support of anything Flyers related
If it weren't for Kimmo and Hartnell, I really wouldn't be connected to them anymore. So with Lindback, the two teams are nearly even. There's just always a soft spot for the Flyers somewhere after 15 years of love, ending with that heartbreaking sweep in '97.

On top of that, half the family moved to Nashville the other half went to Tampa. Seminole/Redington Shores. So there's that. Might as well make them my Eastern team

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06-16-2012, 08:49 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by LateNightOilerFan View Post
I've seen just as many if not more people put sole blame on the goaltending, specifically Roli whether or not he was in the net so the extreme generalities go both ways. Goaltending, defense and bottom-6 were below average so all contributed, as well as special teams. The top-6 offense, most notably Stamkos, picked up a lot of that slack to assist with being 2 points out.

I'm not sure if you are referring to Roli or Garon with the .885 because Roli was there when he was essentially shut down the last week of Nov, and Garon was at .885 for the month of Jan. So re still being in the race despite having a goalie with a .885sv% if you are talking about Roli - let's remember he was sitting on the bench the bulk of the time. From the beginning of Dec to Garon's injury in March he had all of 9 starts.



It also went downhill because around that time Yzerman was planning for next season, trading off assets for picks, seeing what Tik could do, injuries started wearing the team down, etc. Roli played decently during that time but it was too late.
False, the team was continually winning even with Yzerman trading pieces off.

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Old
06-16-2012, 10:02 PM
  #114
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False, the team was continually winning even with Yzerman trading pieces off.
They kept winning for a while but it did eventually catch up to them along with other factors - that was my point. You could tell Yzerman was planning for next year.

It wasn't a 15 game stretch, it was 9 games but you are correct about only 2 losses during that stretch. Moore was traded Feb 16 and they went 7-2-0 with Garon going 6-1-0 and postng a .900sv%.

Then Garon went down March 6th. After Garon went down they went 7-7-2 and Roli's portion of that was 5-3-1, also posting a .900sv%. Tik's portion of that was 1-3-1 with .879sv% so I don't know how you can say Roli was still playing bad compared to the other 2. Caron had 2 starts in there as well going 1-1-0.

Anyway, I really didn't want to rehash last year because it is over and it was below average in many areas. You can't pin the problems on one thing. They had to address goaltending regardless of how last season went because they wanted to get younger in net. So now, they can turn to the defense and as Still All In pointed out, the bottom-6.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:49 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
Lightning just became my 3rd favorite team, easily. After my Preds (current hometown) and Flyers (former hometown) of course.

Always liked Tampa as you guys have sweet uniforms, add in players like Vinny, St. Louis and Stamkos, with past favs like Prospal, Fedotenko and Hamrlik, along with the best name in goalies Darren Puppa and who could forget Manon Rheaume (Lightning and Nashville Knights!)...

My love for non-traditional/southern markets as well, then throw Lindback on top of that, all under the direction of Yzerman... well, you get the picture.

I'll be pulling big time for the Bolts. Here's to hoping that Lindy brings down the hammer on the SE Division!
Good thing you have a good sense of humor!


I'm not huge on this trade, I don't get what Stevie's issue with using Tokarski is. I was hoping to see him going into camp fighting for the starting job.

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Old
06-17-2012, 01:13 AM
  #116
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Good thing you have a good sense of humor!


I'm not huge on this trade, I don't get what Stevie's issue with using Tokarski is. I was hoping to see him going into camp fighting for the starting job.
Hes not good enough at this point.

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Old
06-17-2012, 07:11 AM
  #117
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Anyone else feel like Tik's our Osgood? Never gets enough credit, doesn't complain, is a winner, and they always bring someone new in to take his job. Tik hasn't done it on an NHL level yet but wouldn't be upset if he had a similar career.

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06-17-2012, 07:56 AM
  #118
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Good thing you have a good sense of humor!
okay, the old uniforms were pretty sweet! I don't want to judge on the new ones yet and I didn't see enough of them last season, though they seem a little Maple Leafish, could use some black. I didn't like the Preds new digs when they came out, but they grew on me, always helps when the team is winning I guess (not a shot at Bolts missing last season).

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06-17-2012, 10:52 AM
  #119
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EE sheds some light on Lindback's Adult Still's disease and successful treatment:

Quote:
Lindback, 24, receives daily injections of medicine and has not had any symptoms since being diagnosed.

"I've been healthy since, it's all under control and I take medicine every day,'' Lindback said.

"I don't even think about it like I have a disease. It's just a daily part of my routine that I do every day, so it's all good.''
http://www2.tbo.com/sports/lightning...sue-ar-417029/

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Old
06-17-2012, 11:10 AM
  #120
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Pretty much every Predators fan has said it's a complete non-issue. Don't think we have much to worry about, if it was an issue I don't think SFY would have gotten him.

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Old
06-17-2012, 11:24 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Goaltending was awful, yes, defense needed help, sure. People forget the big picture though which was that the third and fourth lines really didn't do **** last year. Tom Pyatt was the only bright spot in the bottom six, and they ended up slotting him up. Connolly didn't really do ****, Dom had an off year until he was shipped out, DT and Hall both got injured. We brought in one guy off waivers, Labrie for a stint who I love but can't skate for ****, and continued to plug AHLers or waiver fodder into the bottom six who couldn't cycle, couldn't produce, and many times, couldn't defend.

But its the defenses fault.
Good thing Hall and Wyman will be back!

But the defense was a huge reason why we weren't successful.

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06-17-2012, 11:35 PM
  #122
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Good thing Hall and Wyman will be back!

But the defense was a huge reason why we weren't successful.
I hope to god we have a better third and fourth line. Things havent been the same since Bergy left.

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06-18-2012, 01:45 AM
  #123
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I hope to god we have a better third and fourth line. Things havent been the same since Bergy left.
I hope to god we let Conacher and Johnson get a shot. Whats wrong with having 4 lines that can score? Never got that. Not saying not be solid defensively as well, but hell. These two kids are going to be special. Mise well give them a legit chance in Training camp and go from there.

Something tells me our 3rd line would get a hell of a lot better.

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06-18-2012, 04:03 AM
  #124
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Let's not underestimate the transition from AHL to NHL. Some people seem to expect Conacher, Johnson, Killorn etc. to be point-per-game players in the NHL as early as in their first game or first full season with the big guys ("from zero to hero").

Conacher takes the more realistic approach: In his last interview he even stated he'd be OK if he had to spend another year in the AHL. Yzerman will do everything he can not to rush those kids and hurt their development.

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06-18-2012, 09:19 AM
  #125
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I hadn't really looked at Kyle Wilson until just now, but he's already 27 years old. He'll be 28 in December, and so I'd expect him to either contribute to the Lightning right away, or more likely, be one of the veteran guys for the Crunch.

Assuming Wilson is an AHLer, we'll have as 'veteran' players under contract: Wilson and Labrie

Angelidis, Petiot, Picard, Segal, Ouellet, and Trevor Smith are the 'veterans' who are impending UFA's.

I'm not sure about Jon Kalinski he's at 258 regular season games, but I'm not including playoffs.

We can only have like 5 vets on the team, so we're saying bye-bye to some of these guys.

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