HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome Colby Rasmus is

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-06-2012, 08:21 PM
  #901
NeverGoingToWin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,648
vCash: 500
.....................IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Aaron Sanchez 5.2 1 1 1 4 8 0 0.72

Lansing up 12-1.

NeverGoingToWin is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 08:27 PM
  #902
NeverGoingToWin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,648
vCash: 500
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats...bcafa_dunafa_1

Dunedin lost. Clemens is doing pretty well for them. Crouse and Knecht still have terrible averages.

NeverGoingToWin is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 09:03 PM
  #903
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaysLeafsTFCfan View Post
.....................IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Aaron Sanchez 5.2 1 1 1 4 8 0 0.72

Lansing up 12-1.
Had 1 walk through 5 but gave up 3 in the 6th. First time he came out for the 6th actually. Excellent start.

Nasty Nazem is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 09:07 PM
  #904
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
 
dredeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,537
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Yeah, he's got raw power. Walking like a mad man too in Bluefield. 17 walks in 16 games but he has some contact issues so that's something he needs to work on. Should get a promotion soon to Vancouver. Repeating the level though so keep that in mind.
He sounds like a can miss prospect but crazy raw power. They said he has a lot of trouble with off speed stuff which isn't surprising. Didn't sound like he's too great defensively but power is always attractive.

dredeye is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 10:29 PM
  #905
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
 
dredeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,537
vCash: 500
I didn't realize NH is 35 50 on the season yikes.

Stilson pitched really well tonight

5ip 4h 1er 1bb 5k

Magnusson also pitched well in relief. Seems to really be pitching much better

2ip 1h 0r 0bb 3k's

dredeye is offline  
Old
07-06-2012, 10:47 PM
  #906
Woodman19
#TeamBernier
 
Woodman19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
I didn't realize NH is 35 50 on the season yikes.

Stilson pitched really well tonight

5ip 4h 1er 1bb 5k

Magnusson also pitched well in relief. Seems to really be pitching much better

2ip 1h 0r 0bb 3k's
Losing Gose, D'Arnaud and Hechevarria will do that to you lol. It does look like talent is starting to be brought up though to replace those losses with Marisnick being the most recent example.

Woodman19 is online now  
Old
07-06-2012, 11:54 PM
  #907
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
 
dredeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,537
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Losing Gose, D'Arnaud and Hechevarria will do that to you lol. It does look like talent is starting to be brought up though to replace those losses with Marisnick being the most recent example.
Yeah I just didn't pick up on it although I check the box scores most nights. Marisnick was 0 for 4 tonight

dredeye is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 01:08 AM
  #908
TrainTracks
Rookie User
 
TrainTracks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Queen & Roncy
Posts: 106
vCash: 500
be nice if the jays could win atleast 1 of these next 2 games so we could go into the all-star break at .500 atleast.

TrainTracks is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 03:03 AM
  #909
Eyedea
96 from the left
 
Eyedea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,094
vCash: 350
Quote:
The Diamondbacks are currently 39-43 and seven games out in the NL West, and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports that they would consider trade offers from Justin Upton if they fall further out of contention. They will target a third baseman if they instead move closer to contention.

Rosenthal says GM Kevin Towers is open to any type of deal, meaning they could buy, sell, or make a veteran-for-veteran swap that helps now. Upton has been involved in trade rumors before, specifically during the 2010-2011 offseason. The 24-year-old has hit just .266/.348/.378 with seven homers this year after placing fourth in the MVP voting last season. He's under contract through 2015 for approximately $41.9MM and is the type of player that will draw interest from every other team in the league if available.
I know we don't necessarily need another bat, but having the better Upton would be a great asset. He's been struggling so far this season in terms of slugging but being inserted in the top half of the Jays lineup could very well fix that. He becomes a free agent in 2016 (same time as Bautista) and his salary is:

Quote:
2012 24 Arizona Diamondbacks $6,750,000
2013 25 Arizona Diamondbacks $9,750,000
2014 26 Arizona Diamondbacks $14,250,000
2015 27 Arizona Diamondbacks $14,500,000
Obviously the majority (if not all) of us think the main priority is to acquire a pitcher or two that can help the rotation, but with the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox looking to acquire J. Upton it'd be nice to push for him. He's only 24 and can gel with team very easily like Rasmus has so far this season. Now I'm not extremely good at gauging value but it'd likely take 3 of our top 10 prospects plus another with major league potential.

A look at our 2012 top 10 prospects according to Baseball America:

Quote:
1. Travis d'Arnaud, c
2. Anthony Gose, of
3. Jake Marisnick, of
4. Daniel Norris, lhp
5. Justin Nicolino, lhp
6. Aaron Sanchez, rhp
7. Noah Syndergaard, rhp
8. Deck McGuire, rhp
9. Drew Hutchison, rhp
10. Asher Wojciechowski, rhp
Outside of Deck and Woj, the rest hold pretty high value in acquiring star players so if Deck or Woj were to be included, they'd likely be just a minor addition to a package.

My proposed package: Anthony Gose/Jake Marisnick (OF), Justin Nicolino (LHP), Noah Syndergaard (RHP), and Deck McGuire (RHP).

Now before I get trashed on the decimation of our lansing staff, the additions of Matthew Smoral and Daniel Norris from the previous two drafts leave us with a bundle of pitching prospects. Adonys Cardona is hitting 18 and entering the organization too, so we have quite a few prospects that could be expendable for primary bats/pitchers. A guy like Justin Upton is worth every bit of this package, and he'd fill any need we had at LF (although Rajai has been a pleasant surprise this year) for a considerable amount of time.

It is a pipe dream, sure, but it's nice to know we have a deep prospect pool that we could actually make a trade like this and still have a solid top 10 left over. And with the addition of Justin Upton, that would officially spoil the vision of Snider at LF and he could likely be moved for pitching help either in a package or straight swap.

Also yes, I know they have Bauer, Skaggs, Bradley, etc etc. I've been under the impression they're just looking to stockpile on prospects, whether they'd be pitchers or positional, although I'm sure they'd prefer the latter hence the Gose/Marisnick acquisition. Instead of Deck, a guy like Chris Hawkins, Carlos Perez or even Mike McDade (their 1st base depth is pretty mediocre) could fill that final piece of the package.

As I said before it's likely just a pipe dream and Towers is just listening but if he were really on the block I'd like to think AA is inquiring about Upton because the dude is a stud, imagine a Upton - Rasmus - Bautista outfield or Rasmus - Upton - Bautista.


Last edited by Eyedea: 07-07-2012 at 03:21 AM.
Eyedea is online now  
Old
07-07-2012, 03:17 AM
  #910
The Nemesis
Global Moderator
Semper Tyrannus
 
The Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Langley, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,988
vCash: 500
FWIW, Chase Field (D'backs park) is a pretty decidedly hitter-friendly park. So I doubt that moving Upton from there to Rogers Centre is going to have a noteworthy positive impact on his production in and of itself. The impact of the Jays lineup may be a different story, but solely based on the park, it actually is a bit of a downgrade.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

looking at the #s (higher the #, the more hitter-favorable it is for that stat, with 1.000 being neutral), Chase sits 2nd or 3rd in MLB in terms of hitter-friendliness for runs, homers, hits and doubles. Rogers Centre is generally in the 10-15 range in most of those categories. The only real competition Chase has as a hitters' park is Coors (Rockies home field)

__________________

"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent."

Sorry, I am not taking signature requests at this time.
The Nemesis is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 03:20 AM
  #911
Eyedea
96 from the left
 
Eyedea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,094
vCash: 350
You're right, I forgot about the affects there. Either way the lineup would probably help him out.

Eyedea is online now  
Old
07-07-2012, 08:45 AM
  #912
thatshype
Registered User
 
thatshype's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,699
vCash: 500
There was a time when Upton was one of the most untouchable players in baseball. He hasn't had the same success he once had but I can't imagine that his value has dropped all that much. I think Arizona begins the negotiation asking for Lawrie + prospects. Too much from us, and I think the only way we retain Lawrie in the trade would be to include D'Arnaud along side several other high-quality prospects.

I might be overvaluing Upton, but I sincerely think it would take a lot to get him.

thatshype is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 10:17 AM
  #913
Woodman19
#TeamBernier
 
Woodman19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,270
vCash: 500
How exciting would it be to have Upton, would just need an upgrade in the pen and an extra top arm and we are likely the team to beat in the AL East next year.

Woodman19 is online now  
Old
07-07-2012, 11:45 AM
  #914
CherryMan
Registered User
 
CherryMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: in my house
Posts: 51
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to CherryMan Send a message via MSN to CherryMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
There was a time when Upton was one of the most untouchable players in baseball. He hasn't had the same success he once had but I can't imagine that his value has dropped all that much. I think Arizona begins the negotiation asking for Lawrie + prospects. Too much from us, and I think the only way we retain Lawrie in the trade would be to include D'Arnaud along side several other high-quality prospects.

I might be overvaluing Upton, but I sincerely think it would take a lot to get him.
Hell no! We don't want Upton we need pitching and bullpen.

CherryMan is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 12:50 PM
  #915
thatshype
Registered User
 
thatshype's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryMan View Post
Hell no! We don't want Upton we need pitching and bullpen.
I didn't say trading for Upton would be a good idea, I was just saying that it's likely gonna cost us more than we are willing to give up. If we didn't have Bautista in RF than I'd be tempted to move D'Arnaud+Snider for him, but that's not where we are. Upton - Rasmus - Bautista in the field would unquestionably be the best outfield in baseball in my mind, but it would mean we give up substantial pieces elsewhere and move a RFer to LF.

D'backs seem to be in the mood for an overhaul roster change, and if that's true, they will need to cash in their best pieces for crucial building blocks. At the moment the player that would interest them the most on the Jays is unquestionably Lawrie. Jays aren't moving Lawrie, and we have a lot invested in D'Arnaud (being a huge piece of the Halladay trade).

thatshype is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 01:00 PM
  #916
thatshype
Registered User
 
thatshype's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,699
vCash: 500
Garza would likely be the best suited for a Jays trade. Guthrie would be a decent cheap acquisition for THIS season, but if that was the gameplan I think the Jays should have done that about 3 weeks ago. Garza could bring us a significant boost for this season as well as being able to be counted on for next season too.

The ideal acquisition in my mind would be James Shields. But with Tampa still in the mix, they aren't moving one of their better pitchers.

thatshype is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 01:09 PM
  #917
canucksfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 23,599
vCash: 990
I haven't checked the standings in a long time, but wow do the Phillies suck.

If the Jays have any hope of getting into the playoffs, they will have to finish second in AL East. Angles/Rangers will grab the other wild card spot.

canucksfan is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 01:29 PM
  #918
Eyedea
96 from the left
 
Eyedea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Greece
Posts: 11,094
vCash: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
There was a time when Upton was one of the most untouchable players in baseball. He hasn't had the same success he once had but I can't imagine that his value has dropped all that much. I think Arizona begins the negotiation asking for Lawrie + prospects. Too much from us, and I think the only way we retain Lawrie in the trade would be to include D'Arnaud along side several other high-quality prospects.

I might be overvaluing Upton, but I sincerely think it would take a lot to get him.
With Montero locked up, I highly doubt they'd want d'Arnaud. The rumour said they'd be looking to upgrade 3B IF they were back in contention mid summer so it begs the question of what they really do want. Their core is still pretty young so they can manage a rebuild and trading Upton would significantly alter their prospect pool. Also, they already have Bobby Bochering and Matt Davidson at 3B for the future.

Eyedea is online now  
Old
07-07-2012, 01:32 PM
  #919
thatshype
Registered User
 
thatshype's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
I haven't checked the standings in a long time, but wow do the Phillies suck.

If the Jays have any hope of getting into the playoffs, they will have to finish second in AL East. Angles/Rangers will grab the other wild card spot.
Which is still obtainable. We are only 3 games behind 2nd place.

thatshype is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 01:44 PM
  #920
canucksfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 23,599
vCash: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Which is still obtainable. We are only 3 games behind 2nd place.
I agree. The Yanks will be first. Baltimore will fade. The Red Sox have a lot of injuries. Tampa will be the hardest to beat IMO.

canucksfan is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 01:44 PM
  #921
thatshype
Registered User
 
thatshype's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
With Montero locked up, I highly doubt they'd want d'Arnaud. The rumour said they'd be looking to upgrade 3B IF they were back in contention mid summer so it begs the question of what they really do want. Their core is still pretty young so they can manage a rebuild and trading Upton would significantly alter their prospect pool. Also, they already have Bobby Bochering and Matt Davidson at 3B for the future.
Well I'd say your argument for why they wouldn't want D'Arnaud directly conflicts with your assesment of why they wouldn't want Lawrie. Lawrie is admittedly older than their other 3B prospects. But Montero is is significantly older than D'arnaud. You could make an argument that Montero as a catcher has more value than D'arnaud right now simply because he has MLB experience....but that's the exact same argument you'd make to show that Lawrie is vastly ahead of Bochering and Davidson in value.

If a team like the Dbacks are looking to trade away a YOUNG and valuable piece like Upton, they ARE gonna be looking for a combination of youth and value. I would easily argue that both D'Arnaud and Lawrie have more value at their respective positions than anybody in the D'backs roster+farm. Considering the current and future value of Upton, I think Lawrie is a very good comparable in terms of trade value.


I don't think we SHOULD trade for Upton at all, I am just saying that we don't have the pieces to get him without giving up our best assets (Lawrie and Darnaud).

thatshype is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 01:56 PM
  #922
metafour
Registered User
 
metafour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Considering the current and future value of Upton, I think Lawrie is a very good comparable in terms of trade value.
Not at all. Lawrie is two and a half years younger, plays a more valuable position, and most importantly doesn't have non-baseball question marks looming around his head. Why does Arizona seem to want to trade a 24 year old super-talented outfielder? Because they are growing tired of his clubhouse presence. He has a lot of value, but they aren't getting Lawrie or anyone similar back for him, period.

This situation is similar to the Rasmus situation although not as extreme. On paper Rasmus was worth a hell of a lot more than what we ended up trading, but when a team wants to get rid of a player it will result in them settling for less than full value. It will take a lot more to get Upton, but it will not take Lawrie, nor would Toronto trade Lawrie to get Upton (it makes literally zero sense).

metafour is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  #923
thatshype
Registered User
 
thatshype's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by metafour View Post
Not at all. Lawrie is two and a half years younger, plays a more valuable position, and most importantly doesn't have non-baseball question marks looming around his head. Why does Arizona seem to want to trade a 24 year old super-talented outfielder? Because they are growing tired of his clubhouse presence. He has a lot of value, but they aren't getting Lawrie or anyone similar back for him, period.

This situation is similar to the Rasmus situation although not as extreme. On paper Rasmus was worth a hell of a lot more than what we ended up trading, but when a team wants to get rid of a player it will result in them settling for less than full value. It will take a lot more to get Upton, but it will not take Lawrie, nor would Toronto trade Lawrie to get Upton (it makes literally zero sense).
Justin Upton is a two-time All-Star that has hit 26HRs twice in 4 years of MLB experience. He's also stolen ~20bases in each of his first three full seasons in the MLB. If I was describing a 30-year-old veteran, I wouldn't be too impressed. But I am talking about a 24 year old.

Do not bother citing questions about Upton's personality. Do you not recall the discussion about Lawrie's personality that surrounded his trade to Toronto? Have you not seen the Lawrie-40-hands picture and the picture of him pointing at a fat chick's whaletail?

Lawrie had personality questions just like Upton has. Why believe in one more than the other? One has also hit 36 HRs in the MLB, and one hasn't.


I absolutely love Lawrie and would never want him traded for Upton. But you're assessment of Justin Upton's value not be equal to Lawrie's value is not accurate.

thatshype is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 02:54 PM
  #924
metafour
Registered User
 
metafour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatshype View Post
Do not bother citing questions about Upton's personality. Do you not recall the discussion about Lawrie's personality that surrounded his trade to Toronto? Have you not seen the Lawrie-40-hands picture and the picture of him pointing at a fat chick's whaletail?
None of this has any impact on Lawrie's persona as a baseball player. The difference is that Upton's attitude is apparently affecting Arizona's clubhouse, which is the only reason why Kevin Towers is even looking to trade him. At no point in time has Lawrie shown to be a detriment to a team's roster, in fact he is fairly well liked because he plays hard and is energetic.

Quote:
Lawrie had personality questions just like Upton has.
Look above. The "questions" are completely different. When it comes to sports, most GMs could care less if a guy is a complete ******** outside of the game (given that he's not getting arrested, etc). It only becomes a problem when the player's attitude/personality clashes and/or affects a team's makeup, see: Colby Rasmus.

Quote:
Why believe in one more than the other? One has also hit 36 HRs in the MLB, and one hasn't.
I never said I believed in one more than the other. My assessment had absolutely nothing to do with ability. My point was that Upton's value decreases because Arizona is beginning to get eager to move on without him. That was my entire point in bringing up Rasmus. I'm sure that St. Louis was completely aware that a player of Rasmus' age/ability could easily turn his game around, but they dumped him at his lowest value anyway. Upton's scenario isn't going to reach that level, but opposing GM's aren't stupid: nobody is going to give up a player of equal value for Upton unless that player is also on thin ice with his own team.

metafour is offline  
Old
07-07-2012, 03:00 PM
  #925
Nasty Nazem
The North Remembers
 
Nasty Nazem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In my house... duh!
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,105
vCash: 500
It makes sense for DBacks to ask for Lawrie in a potential J. Upton trade but Jays won't trade him. Why? Because I'm not sure if they are improving the team much. You trade a potential superstar in Lawrie who plays a tougher position for a guy that has shown that superstar potential but also struggled to stay inconsistent. Jays don't have much depth at 3rd base either and Lawrie is an untouchable, even for J. Upton.

If Jays are trading for J. Upton, they would be trading prospects, not a significant (core player) major league roster player(s).

I'm not sure how much value J. Upton has right now. He is struggling this year and there are some question marks with him. He will still fetch a lot if they do trade him though.

I wonder if other teams should be looking at this as a red flag on Upton. This is the second time he has sort of become available, he is just 24, had one hell of a season last year, he is on a team friendly contract and everybody knows his potential for stardom so it makes you wonder why DBacks are thinking about giving up on him.

Nasty Nazem is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.