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06-18-2012, 01:12 PM
  #151
weems
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We'd pretty much gut our prospect pool moving that many pieces. The stock of pitchers you mentioned I wouldn't hesitate trading but their all struggling this year so who knows how much value they hold right now.
I dont think it would be gutting our prospect pool at all.

We'd still have all of d'Arnaud, Hech, A Sanchez, Nicolino, Norris, Jacob Anderson, DJ Davis, Kevin Comer, Matt Smoral (if signs), Marcus Stroman, Matt Dean, Robert Osuna.

Heck we'd still easily have a top 10 farm with that group of talent and others.

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06-18-2012, 01:13 PM
  #152
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I get a little prospect crazy but that seems like too steep a price to pay. That's 2 of our top 5 prospects and the other is top 20 and that's as much to do with how young Cardona is. I understand we have to give to receive but that seems like were giving a little too much.
I know there's always that Coors affect yada yada yada but RC is still a launching pad. I mean this could be a great chance at acquiring a guy that can hit .300/.375/.530 with 30 HRs, 90 RBIs that also plays stellar defensively. He's a superstar in the making and will be another impact bat that Farrell could put behind Bautista and improve the lineup drastically.

CarGo-Rasmus-Bautista

think about that, one GG, one potential GG, one superstar slugger. All can hit 25+ HRs (40 for Bautista) and 80+ RBIs (100+ for Bautista). Not to mention CarGo can run the bases fairly well with a lot of speed.

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06-18-2012, 01:17 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
I dont think it would be gutting our prospect pool at all.

We'd still have all of d'Arnaud, Hech, A Sanchez, Nicolino, Norris, Jacob Anderson, DJ Davis, Kevin Comer, Matt Smoral (if signs), Marcus Stroman, Matt Dean, Robert Osuna.

Heck we'd still easily have a top 10 farm with that group of talent and others.
Yep the Jays' prospect pool would still be rich in arms and positional players. We have a centre fielder already in Rasmus, why must we block guys like Gose and Marisnick from playing in the bigs? Syndergaard is a power arm who would be more beneficial for the Rockies than a finesse type pitcher like Nicolino and we can still bank on Roberto Osuna who's only like 17? Dude also has more potential than Cardona.

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06-18-2012, 01:22 PM
  #154
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Yep the Jays' prospect pool would still be rich in arms and positional players. We have a centre fielder already in Rasmus, why must we block guys like Gose and Marisnick from playing in the bigs? Syndergaard is a power arm who would be more beneficial for the Rockies than a finesse type pitcher like Nicolino and we can still bank on Roberto Osuna who's only like 17? Dude also has more potential than Cardona.
Yep we can certainly more then afford going after the type of player like CarGo without gutting our farm.

I know its totally fantasyworld but the top 5 of the lineup would be

Lawrie
Rasmus
Bautista
CarGo
EE

Colorado has been awful the past 2 years. I wonder if they would really entertain the idea of trading CarGo for a really nice prospect package.

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06-18-2012, 01:44 PM
  #155
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Good god, CarGo in our lineup.... droool. You'd have to think though, with all the injuries mounting, our rotation would be the first to see improvement.

Anyways, DJ Davis went 1-3 in his GCL debut.

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06-18-2012, 01:50 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Tootoo Train View Post
Good god, CarGo in our lineup.... droool. You'd have to think though, with all the injuries mounting, our rotation would be the first to see improvement.

Anyways, DJ Davis went 1-3 in his GCL debut.
There's no reason why Guthrie can't fly to Toronto with CarGo.

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06-18-2012, 01:54 PM
  #157
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There's no reason why Guthrie can't fly to Toronto with CarGo.
Can Guthrie also pick up some talent at the duty-free? Please and thank you.

That would be an interesting deal if the Jays ate the entire contract of Guthrie.

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06-18-2012, 02:07 PM
  #158
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And Carlos Gonzalez is a 27yo whos currently sporting a 1.023 OPS and has already been nominated for a MVP award in his young career.

I think you're drastically underrating just how good Cargo is.
I'd love love love to add Gonzalez. The fact that he's also locked up for a long time doesn't hurt either which lessens the blow of losing prospects. I just love to follow our young guys and that's a lot of my favs going in one foul swoop. I wouldn't be crying foul if it happened trust me.

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06-18-2012, 02:08 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Tootoo Train View Post
Can Guthrie also pick up some talent at the duty-free? Please and thank you.

That would be an interesting deal if the Jays ate the entire contract of Guthrie.
Eating that whole contract could save them a key prospect so it may be money well spent and they can still have McDade (to clarify McDade going to the Rockies not as the key prospect saved by eating all of the contract.

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06-18-2012, 02:10 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
I dont think it would be gutting our prospect pool at all.

We'd still have all of d'Arnaud, Hech, A Sanchez, Nicolino, Norris, Jacob Anderson, DJ Davis, Kevin Comer, Matt Smoral (if signs), Marcus Stroman, Matt Dean, Robert Osuna.

Heck we'd still easily have a top 10 farm with that group of talent and others.
Yeah I wasn't thinking of the recent talent added from this draft.


Last edited by dredeye: 06-18-2012 at 02:16 PM.
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06-18-2012, 02:12 PM
  #161
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who's pitching Tuesday and Wednesday for the Jays??

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06-18-2012, 02:14 PM
  #162
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who's pitching Tuesday and Wednesday for the Jays??
TBD for both days as of right now.

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06-18-2012, 02:14 PM
  #163
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who's pitching Tuesday and Wednesday for the Jays??
Chavez and CV would be my guess.

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06-18-2012, 02:18 PM
  #164
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I would not hesitate one bit to trade some key prospects cause that is what they are prospects who have done nothing at the MLB level and who knows if they do pan out or not.

If you had the chance to acquire a complete player like CARGO and only takes prospects you do it everyday.

Eventually someone will need to be traded whether its players off the MLB roster or the prospects that are blocked by the players on the big league roster.

With all the pitchers in the lower level minors how many spots are on the MLB roster long term if you consider Romero and Morrow as 2 key pitchers moving forward. You have Alvarez, Hutchinson and Drabek already here and about another 12 guys coming up in the minors in the next 3-5 years. There will be no spots on the MLB roster for all those players.

Why not make moves now to secure some premium talent to fill holes at the MLB level now why wait for another year when you have a chance at the WC and playoffs.

Yeah you may have to overpay for a guy but imagine getting CARGO that would free up Thames and Snider to be moved in other deals maybe for a 1B. I would even venture an Escobar deal cause if we picked up CARGO and a 1B with pop then you can afford to have HECH hitting 9th and not worrying about his average.

AA has done a great job at stocking the farm but now its time to make some impact moves to get this team over the hump.

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06-18-2012, 02:19 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyedea View Post
I know there's always that Coors affect yada yada yada but RC is still a launching pad. I mean this could be a great chance at acquiring a guy that can hit .300/.375/.530 with 30 HRs, 90 RBIs that also plays stellar defensively. He's a superstar in the making and will be another impact bat that Farrell could put behind Bautista and improve the lineup drastically.

CarGo-Rasmus-Bautista

think about that, one GG, one potential GG, one superstar slugger. All can hit 25+ HRs (40 for Bautista) and 80+ RBIs (100+ for Bautista). Not to mention CarGo can run the bases fairly well with a lot of speed.
That outfield would be insane with a lot of speed in the field and on the base paths not to mention the power off their bats. Don't get me wrong I would love to add him if he was made available. I just have trouble seeing so many good prospects go.

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06-18-2012, 02:23 PM
  #166
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I would not hesitate one bit to trade some key prospects cause that is what they are prospects who have done nothing at the MLB level and who knows if they do pan out or not.

If you had the chance to acquire a complete player like CARGO and only takes prospects you do it everyday.

Eventually someone will need to be traded whether its players off the MLB roster or the prospects that are blocked by the MLB team.

With all the pitchers in the lower level minors how many spots are on the MLB roster long term if you consider Romero and Morrow as 2 key pitchers moving forward. You have Alvarez, Hutchinson and Drabek already here and about another 12 guys coming up in the minors in the next 3-5 years. There will be no spots on the MLB roster for all those players.

Why not make moves now to secure some premium talent to fill holes at the MLB level now why wait for another year when you have a chance at the WC and playoffs.

Yeah you may have to overpay for a guy but imagine getting CARGO that would free up Thames and Snider to be moved in other deals maybe for a 1B. I would even venture an Escobar deal cause if we picked up CARGO and a 1B with pop then you can afford to have HECH hitting 9th and not worrying about his average.

AA has done a great job at stocking the farm but now its time to make some impact moves to get this team over the hump.
I wouldn't count on that wild card spot with 3 starting pitchers hurt right now. Until we see how bad Morrow and Hutch are I can't see us doing anything significant this year (on the field that is) I wonder if Thames or Snider would interest the Rockies at all as they are as major league ready as they can be. I'm not saying in the sense as the main piece but in the sense of saving one of the better prospects and doing a Snider+Deck instead. (I know Deck has struggled just using him as an example as a not a key or strong prospect)

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06-18-2012, 02:26 PM
  #167
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TBD for both days as of right now.
any idea when they announce tomorrows start anyway?

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06-18-2012, 02:26 PM
  #168
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Not sure if this is undervaluing our prospects or CarGo himself but I'd deal Marisnick, Syndergaard and Cardona for him. An outfield of CarGo-Rasmus-Bautista is like a Manager's dream.
Seems steep to me. Cardona's gonna be a star. But if that's what it takes....you do it.


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06-18-2012, 02:27 PM
  #169
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It's amazing how Oakland dealt CarGo and Huston Street for half a year of Matt Holliday.

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06-18-2012, 02:38 PM
  #170
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Seems steep to me. Cardona's gonna be a star.
Marisnick is a fringe top 50 prospect, Syndergaard fringe top 100 and Cardona is a total wildcard that hasnt even played single A ball yet.

How is that "steep" for a 27yo whos arguably one of the 5 best position players in the NL and already has been up for a MVP award?

Cardona is gonna be a star? Based on what exactly?

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06-18-2012, 02:47 PM
  #171
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Sorry if it's been discussed, but are there any updates on Stroman, Smoral and DeJong?

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06-18-2012, 02:58 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by weems View Post
Marisnick is a fringe top 50 prospect, Syndergaard fringe top 100 and Cardona is a total wildcard that hasnt even played single A ball yet.

How is that "steep" for a 27yo whos arguably one of the 5 best position players in the NL and already has been up for a MVP award?

Cardona is gonna be a star? Based on what exactly?
Ya that's true. The more I thought of it, the more I was ok with giving up that package for him.

It's not taking anything away from him. Im just high on the others.

And based on the stuff that he's got at 17 years old (or has he turned 18). But he's just that, a 17/18 year old prospect.

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06-18-2012, 02:59 PM
  #173
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Marisnick is a fringe top 50 prospect, Syndergaard fringe top 100 and Cardona is a total wildcard that hasnt even played single A ball yet.

How is that "steep" for a 27yo whos arguably one of the 5 best position players in the NL and already has been up for a MVP award?

Cardona is gonna be a star? Based on what exactly?
Your right who knows what prospect will be a star. Everyone thought Snider would be a middle of the order hitter by now and he is still struggling to put it together.

Even if the Jays gave up a prospect who turned out to be really good then its a win win for both teams. The Jays get a top 15 MLB talent and the Rockies get a futur star.

I also hear that the Twins http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...-pitching.html are looking for pitching.

Hmmmm Morneau to the Jays?? I have heard that they really want to move Mauer to 1B to lessen the impact on his body. I would take a chance on Morneau injuries and all.


Imagine AA pulls Morneau and CARGO deals hmmm wow what a batting order

Lawrie
Rasmus
Bautista
Morneau
Gonzalez
EE
Johnson
Escobar
JPA

You can hit your way to the playoffs with that lineup.

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06-18-2012, 03:11 PM
  #174
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I would not hesitate one bit to trade some key prospects cause that is what they are prospects who have done nothing at the MLB level and who knows if they do pan out or not.

If you had the chance to acquire a complete player like CARGO and only takes prospects you do it everyday.

Eventually someone will need to be traded whether its players off the MLB roster or the prospects that are blocked by the players on the big league roster.

With all the pitchers in the lower level minors how many spots are on the MLB roster long term if you consider Romero and Morrow as 2 key pitchers moving forward. You have Alvarez, Hutchinson and Drabek already here and about another 12 guys coming up in the minors in the next 3-5 years. There will be no spots on the MLB roster for all those players.

Why not make moves now to secure some premium talent to fill holes at the MLB level now why wait for another year when you have a chance at the WC and playoffs.

Yeah you may have to overpay for a guy but imagine getting CARGO that would free up Thames and Snider to be moved in other deals maybe for a 1B. I would even venture an Escobar deal cause if we picked up CARGO and a 1B with pop then you can afford to have HECH hitting 9th and not worrying about his average.

AA has done a great job at stocking the farm but now its time to make some impact moves to get this team over the hump.
While I am all in favour of moving prospects for a talent like Gonzalez, you have to realize that AA has spent the last 3 years stockpiling all that talent in the minors and to date we have only Lawrie and Drabek to show for it from AA's drafts/trades. The whole point of adding all that talent isnt to use it all to acquire other players teams have drafted, its to use them ourselves and trade the surplus' for filling holes. This whole concept that we need to "trade our way into the playoffs" is just plain stupid. You argue that there is lots of depth in the lower minors, well those players are much longer away from the majors and you will no doubt by then tire of the lack of playoffs and lobby to move them next year for next years quick fix.

There is no 1 cure to fix the Jays, being patient and continuing to build a core is the goal which AA seems to be doing a very good job of.

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06-18-2012, 03:22 PM
  #175
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If we got CarGo, I'd like to see something like this in a few years:

CarGo - Rasmus - Gose

Lawrie - Hech - Yunel/Johnson - Bautista

D'arnaud
DH: EE

Maybe not next season, but definitely the next one. I'd like to see JBau make a move to 1st to preserve him as long as possible. He'd make an easy transition as he is extremely versatile.
personally id offer Yunel, Snider and Marisnick.

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