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Old
06-28-2012, 01:22 PM
  #151
Crafton
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Hate to bring politics into the thread, but this health care ruling allows me to get health care.
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
They got something right for once.
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I'm happy to hear that.
it's a masterful decision that will be remembered more for it's effect on the commerce clause than it's effect on healthcare.
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a bottom line of 7 Justices – the Chief, Breyer, Kagan and the four dissenters – finding the expansion unconstitutional. But a different majority – the Chief, Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor and Kagan – held that the remedy for the violation was to strike down only the provision allowing the federal government to withhold all Medicaid funds unless a state agrees to the expansion.

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06-28-2012, 01:23 PM
  #152
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One of the most underrated games ever...even though the translation was pretty hilariously bad.

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06-28-2012, 01:44 PM
  #153
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06-28-2012, 02:54 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Ominous Grey View Post
Hate to bring politics into the thread, but this health care ruling allows me to get health care.

No more pre-existing condition crap....thank God. Awesome news to wake up to.
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
As someone with no money and a butt-load of health problems...huzzah! They got something right for once.
Super glad for both you, people in my office aren't happy with the decision. IDK, how people can say you don't deserve health coverage b/c of money. You'd think a government would want to 1) keep people a live 2) educate said people. Well now we just need to work on #2, especially since my wife is a teacher.

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06-28-2012, 02:59 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
it's a masterful decision that will be remembered more for it's effect on the commerce clause than it's effect on healthcare.
This is not true since it was considered unconstitutional on the grounds of the commerce clause. It was, however, upheld under the taxing clause. Essentially, the individual mandate is seen as a tax. That may certainly have repercussions down the line.

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06-28-2012, 03:00 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by DockEllisExperience View Post
Super glad for both you, people in my office aren't happy with the decision. IDK, how people can say you don't deserve health coverage b/c of money. You'd think a government would want to 1) keep people a live 2) educate said people. Well now we just need to work on #2, especially since my wife is a teacher.
I agree in principal. It's certainly a very complicated topic.

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06-28-2012, 03:04 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
This is not true since it was considered unconstitutional on the grounds of the commerce clause. It was, however, upheld under the taxing clause. Essentially, the individual mandate is seen as a tax. That may certainly have repercussions down the line.
this is PRECISELY why it's an important commerce clause case. cases that find laws unconstitutional under the commerce clause are arguably more important to commerce clause law than cases that find laws constitutional under the commerce clause because such decisions define the scope of the clause.

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06-28-2012, 03:05 PM
  #158
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I agree in principal. It's certainly a very complicated topic.
Agreed, people need to realize that we are one of the only Western countries w/o universal health care and our taxes are incredibly low compared to our friends to the North and Western Europe. It's about time we started taking care of our own instead of having a "defense" budget greater than countries #2-26 on defense spending. This is from someone who went to a military school and has 15-20 classmates serving right now. We aren't the only ones who can tackle the world's problems anymore.

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06-28-2012, 03:07 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
this is PRECISELY why it's an important commerce clause case. cases that find laws unconstitutional under the commerce clause are arguably more important to commerce clause law than cases that find laws constitutional under the commerce clause because such decisions define the scope of the clause.
Oh I'm sorry I mis-interpreted what you meant. I take back my objection.

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06-28-2012, 03:08 PM
  #160
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They're the only band End of Line can bring up without being made fun of
That too.....

As for Healthcare, I'm a member of no party, I vote for I want, and I am very happy with this decision.

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06-28-2012, 03:12 PM
  #161
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As for Healthcare, I'm a member of no party, I vote for I want, and I am very happy with this decision.
I'm also a proud Independent, I loath party politics. IMO, it's the reason nothing ever gets done in Washington.

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06-28-2012, 03:13 PM
  #162
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Oh I'm sorry I mis-interpreted what you meant. I take back my objection.
no problem.
i've always felt there were two layers of politics at play - electoral politics (which bore me) and court politics - and the way they interact is fascinating but a good deal of the time they aren't even related. talking heads will spend all their time on talking about the electoral implications but the real story (down the road) may be how this case affects the commerce clause.

[some brief history for those who care]
-during the New Deal, the Court allowed Congress to regulate any activity that affected the national economy (so basically any activity) with the Commerce Clause.

-until 1995 no law was ever found to be in violation of the Commerce Clause

-In Lopez (1995 - about guns in schools) and Morrison (2000 - overturning parts of the Violence Against Women Act) Rehnquist used the Commerce Clause to find Congressional regulation of non-economic activity unconstitutional.

-BUT in Gonzales v. Raich (2005 - about growing pot at home) the Court abandoned this interpretation / use of the Commerce Clause

-with this decision (the conservative) Roberts has brought back conservative style Federalism by upholding what is generally perceived to be a liberal law (as an exercise of the taxing power not the commerce power). A win for both sides - hence a masterful decision.

Timmy Thomas is the only loser here.

As to whether these developments (two developments #1 healthcare #2 commerce clause is back) are good or bad and for who - well those questions bring up the kind of politics we want to avoid.


Last edited by Crafton: 06-28-2012 at 03:44 PM.
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06-28-2012, 03:47 PM
  #163
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I'm happy to hear that.
Thank you.


I went out to celebrate and I ended up using a gift card on a used copy of Battlefield 3 for 360. Anyone have a copy and feel like helping out a n00b?

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06-28-2012, 03:55 PM
  #164
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Long live healthcare, great day for you guys. Congratulations!

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Old
06-28-2012, 03:58 PM
  #165
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Holy **** my head is aching.

Stupid allergies and sinuses.

*rabble*

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06-28-2012, 04:19 PM
  #166
Shady Machine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
no problem.
i've always felt there were two layers of politics at play - electoral politics (which bore me) and court politics - and the way they interact is fascinating but a good deal of the time they aren't even related. talking heads will spend all their time on talking about the electoral implications but the real story (down the road) may be how this case affects the commerce clause.

[some brief history for those who care]
-during the New Deal, the Court allowed Congress to regulate any activity that affected the national economy (so basically any activity) with the Commerce Clause.

-until 1995 no law was ever found to be in violation of the Commerce Clause

-In Lopez (1995 - about guns in schools) and Morrison (2000 - overturning parts of the Violence Against Women Act) Rehnquist used the Commerce Clause to find Congressional regulation of non-economic activity unconstitutional.

-BUT in Gonzales v. Raich (2005 - about growing pot at home) the Court abandoned this interpretation / use of the Commerce Clause

-with this decision (the conservative) Roberts has brought back conservative style Federalism by upholding what is generally perceived to be a liberal law (as an exercise of the taxing power not the commerce power). A win for both sides - hence a masterful decision.

Timmy Thomas is the only loser here.

As to whether these developments (two developments #1 healthcare #2 commerce clause is back) are good or bad and for who - well those questions bring up the kind of politics we want to avoid.
Thanks for the info. I knew some of that but not all the history. It is certainly an interesting decision. I suppose Roberts can have his cake and eat it too if Romney is elected and the Healthcare law is repealed (of course that will be a painstakingly long and bitter battle).

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Old
06-28-2012, 05:22 PM
  #167
Ominous Grey
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Holy **** my head is aching.

Stupid allergies and sinuses.

*rabble*
Take some aspirin. I just downed three myself and I'm back up and functioning.

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Long live healthcare, great day for you guys. Congratulations!
Thank you so much.

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Old
06-28-2012, 05:38 PM
  #168
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Thank you.


I went out to celebrate and I ended up using a gift card on a used copy of Battlefield 3 for 360. Anyone have a copy and feel like helping out a n00b?
I'm terrible at shooting games but if you want to play some time feel free to add me.

GT is Penguins23

I haven't played in like over 4 months but I'd play again to justify my dumb purchase.

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06-28-2012, 05:47 PM
  #169
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I'm terrible at shooting games but if you want to play some time feel free to add me.

GT is Penguins23

I haven't played in like over 4 months but I'd play again to justify my dumb purchase.
Absolutely. Sent you a request. Although the 3 GB multiplayer update is only half-way through.

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06-28-2012, 06:08 PM
  #170
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There should be cheap options for those who can't afford insurance. That being said, the insuring those who can't afford insurance is a very small part of the bill. This expands the scope of government, and just increases spending.

In our generation (those of us who are in our 20's and 30's), I think we will see a complete and total collapse of the dollar, and our generation's quality of life will suffer because of it. We keep writing checks and printing money which just further deflates the dollar and increases the cost of living further.

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06-28-2012, 06:35 PM
  #171
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There should be cheap options for those who can't afford insurance. That being said, the insuring those who can't afford insurance is a very small part of the bill. This expands the scope of government, and just increases spending.

In our generation (those of us who are in our 20's and 30's), I think we will see a complete and total collapse of the dollar, and our generation's quality of life will suffer because of it. We keep writing checks and printing money which just further deflates the dollar and increases the cost of living further.
I completely agree, but I'm not about to get into a political debate. I think I'll have to take a seat in this thread for a while.

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06-28-2012, 06:40 PM
  #172
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There's a hidden political forum you can find through a Sticky thread in the Lounge. I'm not intelligent enough to post but I always enjoy reading informed opinions.

In other news, I just ran 3 miles in the 94 degree heat. Kind of want to celebrate by eating an entire cheesecake or something.

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06-28-2012, 06:41 PM
  #173
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There's a hidden political forum you can find through a Sticky thread in the Lounge. I'm not intelligent enough to post but I always enjoy reading informed opinions.

In other news, I just ran 3 miles in the 94 degree heat. Kind of want to celebrate by eating an entire cheesecake or something.
If you eat the cheesecake then you'll have to run another 3 miles.

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06-28-2012, 06:46 PM
  #174
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In our generation (those of us who are in our 20's and 30's), I think we will see a complete and total collapse of the dollar, and our generation's quality of life will suffer because of it. We keep writing checks and printing money which just further deflates the dollar and increases the cost of living further.
This. So much of this.

(avoiding political discussion, just dropping .02)

</comment>

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06-28-2012, 06:47 PM
  #175
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I think people treating politics like the boogeyman is about 75% of the problem as to why this country is in the position we're in.

It's not worth talking about politics here because a majority are on one side of the political spectrum.

I work under a union and I completely vote against what the union wants me to do because I'm much more concerned with the greater good of our country and economy than voting for what's good for me personally. I do so because I believe the greater picture is if the economy and country are good, that will do more good for the country than giving free healthcare. If the economy is good, the cost of living will go down, and health insurance would probably be more affordable so that government intervention wouldn't be needed in the first place.

Thomas Jefferson once said, "A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."

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