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Luongo XI - Luoraker (Mod warning #432)

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:06 PM
  #226
Wilch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamhuisHip View Post
Why would you consider other Canuck fans weak minded for not holding the same opinion you do.

At this point in time there are no clear indications of a bidding war for Luongo (likely due to the uncertainty of how the new CBA will affect cap circumventing contracts). If TOR is the only serious bidder then VAN will have to take less. Under these circumstances players/picks other than Gardiner or the 5th overall could form a basis for a trade.

The interest in Luongo my pick up closer to the draft or after the free agent frenzy. At some point *if* Luongo must be moved before the season starts then Gillis may have to take what some VAN fans consider a mediocre return.
What arsmaster said. A lot of Canuck fans who posted here have been beaten to submission by all the lolstfus by the Leaf fans and started doubting in their own judgement. To avoid being berated any further (we already get berated enough because we're Canuck fans), they lower their opinion on Luongo's value so their posts are deemed "acceptable" to Leaf fans.

Whatever. Draft day can't get here any sooner.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:18 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
If Toronto is/was the only serious bidder then Schneider will be traded.
However this plays out, this is Gillis' biggest decision so far as GM of VAN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Because 17 threads ago some of these Canuck poster were asking for considerably more than they are now.

They have waivered from their original opinions, because of other influences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
What arsmaster said. A lot of Canuck fans who posted here have been beaten to submission by all the lolstfus by the Leaf fans and started doubting in their own judgement. To avoid being berated any further (we already get berated enough because we're Canuck fans), they lower their opinion on Luongo's value so their posts are deemed "acceptable" to Leaf fans.

Whatever. Draft day can't get here any sooner.
Why can't a poster change their opinion based on the arguments provided from both sides. Maybe the lowered their expectations based on valid arguments. I wouldn't be surprised if some TOR fans have done so just like some VAN fans have.

I too hope this saga ends soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Luongo Should return a salaried NHL player a top prospect and a 1st round pick.

The only think I've waivered on is that in lieu of this years first I'd take this years 2nd and next years first, but I still think a NHL player and a top prospect has to be added.
There are good reasons for TOR not to trade the 5th OA or Gardiner and this is a middle ground framework that likely works for both teams.


Last edited by Juicey: 06-17-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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Old
06-17-2012, 12:25 PM
  #228
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I know for a fact, Burke will not trade the future for an aging luongo on a decade long contract so people suggesting trade proposals with 2-3 of our prospects are out to lunch. More reasonable proposals would include Kulemin/Mac + one of Franson/colbourne/ 2nd


Thats being generous and unselfish from my side.

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06-17-2012, 12:30 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by stavs View Post
I know for a fact, Burke will not trade the future for an aging luongo on a decade long contract so people suggesting trade proposals with 2-3 of our prospects are out to lunch. More reasonable proposals would include Kulemin/Mac + one of Franson/colbourne/ 2nd


Thats being generous and unselfish from my side.
Mind telling me the winning lotto numbers?

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:31 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by stavs View Post
I know for a fact, Burke will not trade the future for an aging luongo on a decade long contract so people suggesting trade proposals with 2-3 of our prospects are out to lunch. More reasonable proposals would include Kulemin/Mac + one of Franson/colbourne/ 2nd


Thats being generous and unselfish from my side.
Hilarious. Absurd and hilarious.

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06-17-2012, 12:36 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by stavs View Post
I know for a fact, Burke will not trade the future for an aging luongo on a decade long contract.
No, you really don't.

And even if Burke ends up doing nothing, you would be right for the wrong reason. It'd be like winning a bet in roulette.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:38 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Mind telling me the winning lotto numbers?
Burke and Nonis have mentioned countless number of times that they won't be gutting what they have built up for the future for short term fixes. Maybe they feel Luongo is an exception, guess we will know soon..

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06-17-2012, 12:43 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Burke and Nonis have mentioned countless number of times that they won't be gutting what they have built up for the future for short term fixes. Maybe they feel Luongo is an exception, guess we will know soon..
LuOngo's got 10 years left.

Wouldn't call that a short term fix, it actually has a lot of long term benefits...

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06-17-2012, 12:45 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Burke and Nonis have mentioned countless number of times that they won't be gutting what they have built up for the future for short term fixes. Maybe they feel Luongo is an exception, guess we will know soon..
Kessel deal speaks otherwise and all of their UFA signings speak otherwise. If I was to tell u I was going to give u 100 bucks and then go on to take 100 from u, would u still believe what I say or believe in my actions?

Like I said earlier Colborne + Ashton + 2013 1st round pick. We can take a cap dump like Lombardi back if you guys take Alberts

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06-17-2012, 12:51 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Kessel deal speaks otherwise and all of their UFA signings speak otherwise. If I was to tell u I was going to give u 100 bucks and then go on to take 100 from u, would u still believe what I say or believe in my actions?
u can't compare that with the present. Burke took over the team when it was at an all time low with no skill, no leadership, nothing. I completely understand his reasoning for the kessel trade, and as stated before, he and everyone else did not expect the leafs to finish 2nd last the following season. Burke hasn't traded any of our future away from that point on. He's not going to screw that up now and trade a good portion of our prospects for maybe 5-6 years of Luongo.

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06-17-2012, 12:57 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Kessel deal speaks otherwise and all of their UFA signings speak otherwise. If I was to tell u I was going to give u 100 bucks and then go on to take 100 from u, would u still believe what I say or believe in my actions?

Like I said earlier Colborne + Ashton + 2013 1st round pick. We can take a cap dump like Lombardi back if you guys take Alberts
Kessel was 21 when Burke traded for him, and Burke's UFA signings have nothing to do with the young players and prospects he's been drafting and trading for since he became the GM..

I highly doubt Burke will trade 2 former 1st round picks and a 1st rounder for Luongo. Just speculating, but one of Colborne/Ashton/Kadri + a roster player or two (Mac, Gunnarsson, etc) is the most I would offer..

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06-17-2012, 12:59 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by stavs View Post
u can't compare that with the present. Burke took over the team when it was at an all time low with no skill, no leadership, nothing. I completely understand his reasoning for the kessel trade, and as stated before, he and everyone else did not expect the leafs to finish 2nd last the following season. Burke hasn't traded any of our future away from that point on. He's not going to screw that up now and trade a good portion of our prospects for maybe 5-6 years of Luongo.
2 prospects who both arent even the teams top prospect and what should be a mid 1st a year after u guys draft in the top 5 again to help re-stock is not the future. Hell those guys at best will be ur 3rd and 4th best prospects after the draft

If thats the future, the Leafs won;t be getting any star players in a trade ever. U do realize u have to give to get and no roster player outside of Kessel, Lupul, Gardiner, and Phaneuf would interest the Canucks without significant pieces being added to them?

So how exactly would the Leafs be able to gt a to notch goalie like Lou without giving up anything valuable again? NOTE: Just because guys like Kulemin and Gunnarsson are valuable to the Leafs does not mean they are to the Canucks.

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Old
06-17-2012, 12:59 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by professorchaos View Post
Toronto just doesn't have any assets of value to the Canucks, they are very poor trading partners. If Florida is willing to part with Upshall and a couple picks that is way better than any TO deal that I have heard so far.
vancouver really doesn't have any assets which would interest the leafs either even luongo is a bit iffy given with his age and his retirement contract, the leafs have decent prospects going forward sure they wont contribute at the moment but in time they'll have an impact on the team

they just have to be paitent and let their prospects develope like other teams have and sign FAs to improve the team rather than trading their prospects/picks for aging players which they have done in paste decade

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Old
06-17-2012, 01:02 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
vancouver really doesn't have any assets which would interest the leafs either even luongo is a bit iffy given with his age and his retirement contract, the leafs have decent prospects going forward sure they wont contribute at the moment but in time they'll have an impact on the team

they just have to be paitent and let their prospects develope like other teams have and sign FAs to improve the team rather than trading their prospects/picks for aging players which they have done in paste decade
Classic.

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Old
06-17-2012, 01:05 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
vancouver really doesn't have any assets which would interest the leafs either even luongo is a bit iffy given with his age and his retirement contract, the leafs have decent prospects going forward sure they wont contribute at the moment but in time they'll have an impact on the team

they just have to be paitent and let their prospects develope like other teams have and sign FAs to improve the team rather than trading their prospects/picks for aging players which they have done in paste decade
Thanks for the good laugh.

We all know how much Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa suck, and how much Gardiner and some yet to be drafted player rocks.

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06-17-2012, 01:16 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by stavs View Post
I know for a fact, Burke will not trade the future for an aging luongo on a decade long contract so people suggesting trade proposals with 2-3 of our prospects are out to lunch. More reasonable proposals would include Kulemin/Mac + one of Franson/colbourne/ 2nd
Thats being generous and unselfish from my side.
Back like 3 threads ago I was proposing

Schenn + Kulemin + Ashton
For
Luongo + 2nd

Both fanbases seemed receptive but some Leafs fans didnt want to move Kulemin and used Kadri in his place.

So it became

Schenn + Kadri + Ashton

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Old
06-17-2012, 01:23 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
2 prospects who both arent even the teams top prospect and what should be a mid 1st a year after u guys draft in the top 5 again to help re-stock is not the future. Hell those guys at best will be ur 3rd and 4th best prospects after the draft

If thats the future, the Leafs won;t be getting any star players in a trade ever. U do realize u have to give to get and no roster player outside of Kessel, Lupul, Gardiner, and Phaneuf would interest the Canucks without significant pieces being added to them?

So how exactly would the Leafs be able to gt a to notch goalie like Lou without giving up anything valuable again? NOTE: Just because guys like Kulemin and Gunnarsson are valuable to the Leafs does not mean they are to the Canucks.
But if there is no market for Luongo right now (unless you want to trade inside your division or to a rival, doubt San Jose wants his contract too), why would we in fact pay a premium if there is no demand. This is taught at introductory level economic courses in high school and university. If there is no demand for the product, its only natural for the supplier/seller to lower the price of their product (Luongo).

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06-17-2012, 01:24 PM
  #243
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Uhh.

We already have Kassian and Jensen for big wingers with pf potential. No reason to weaken our prospect pool for a player less valuable than Kassian in Ashton.

this is a bad proposal which all the leaf fans would be glad to make.
I figured Schroeder becomes irrelevant with Kadri in the mix.

I figured that Schroeder/Ashton are pretty comparable value-wise.

So Toronto doesnt kill their center depth by trading Kadri and Vancouver gets another strong winger prospect.

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06-17-2012, 01:26 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Back like 3 threads ago I was proposing

Schenn + Kulemin + Ashton
For
Luongo + 2nd

Both fanbases seemed receptive but some Leafs fans didnt want to move Kulemin and used Kadri in his place.

So it became

Schenn + Kadri + Ashton
dont u understand what future means, all those pieces are young and part of our future. You'll be lucky if you see 1 of those pieces in a trade if it happens

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Old
06-17-2012, 01:29 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Wilch View Post
What arsmaster said. A lot of Canuck fans who posted here have been beaten to submission by all the lolstfus by the Leaf fans and started doubting in their own judgement. To avoid being berated any further (we already get berated enough because we're Canuck fans), they lower their opinion on Luongo's value so their posts are deemed "acceptable" to Leaf fans.

Whatever. Draft day can't get here any sooner.
Lol wut? So because a few Canucks fans choose to be reasonable in their request we must now say that their judgement has been compromised? Maybe these are the people you should listen to, one side decides to reduce their demands and hope that the other side resuscitates. Seems to be a lot better than bickering for 10000 posts.

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06-17-2012, 01:36 PM
  #246
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Thanks for the good laugh.

We all know how much Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa suck, and how much Gardiner and some yet to be drafted player rocks.
you're missing the point, were sedins and kelser the same as they are today in their first 2-3 sesons of pro? obviously not, you drafted those players and let them develop over time, so why should it be any different for the leafs, people are already calling kadri a bust and he has yet to play a full season in big league, and gardiner is "overrated" and the 5th overall could be another "bust", every fan overvalues their players and prospects but calling other teams assets "nothing of value and poor" is just arrogant

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06-17-2012, 01:36 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Lol wut? So because a few Canucks fans choose to be reasonable in their request we must now say that their judgement has been compromised? Maybe these are the people you should listen to, one side decides to reduce their demands and hope that the other side resuscitates. Seems to be a lot better than bickering for 10000 posts.
No, we can just say they had poor judgement to begin with. What some fans think is a "reasonable offer" may be that, but sometimes reasonable offers don't make sense for a team. What most Leaf fans (and some of the more ignorant Canuck fans) don't realize is that most of the stuff you are offering doesn't help the Canucks in any way shape or form. We have enough mediocre depth and mediocre prospects, if we don't get something that will help improve our lineup there won't be a Luongo trade....not only to Toronto, but anywhere.

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06-17-2012, 01:41 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by stavs View Post
dont u understand what future means, all those pieces are young and part of our future. You'll be lucky if you see 1 of those pieces in a trade if it happens
So...Gardiner and a 5th are out. Kulemin and Schenn are out. Kadri, Colborne and Ashton are all out.

So much for dialogue and stimulating debate from Ontario's largest city

I guess that leaves Kessel.

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06-17-2012, 01:54 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by stavs View Post
But if there is no market for Luongo right now (unless you want to trade inside your division or to a rival, doubt San Jose wants his contract too), why would we in fact pay a premium if there is no demand. This is taught at introductory level economic courses in high school and university. If there is no demand for the product, its only natural for the supplier/seller to lower the price of their product (Luongo).
And u know this how? there have been reports saying there are 8 teams interested and reports saying there aren't many teams interested. That still means a couple teams at the least. so 2-8 teams. Here on HF its 3 (Chicago fans, Florida fans, and Toronto fans). It only takes 2 to start a biding war. There have been no reports of no teams interested so let me know where ur getting this new info from

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06-17-2012, 02:25 PM
  #250
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dont u understand what future means, all those pieces are young and part of our future. You'll be lucky if you see 1 of those pieces in a trade if it happens
Okay c'mon. This is a classic Boat vs Mystery Box paradigm. Sure, a boat's a boat but the mystery box could be anything! It could even be a boat! Right?

Just because the Leafs prospects are young and have potential to develop there's no guarantee they actually will, unless you subscribe to the belief that everything really was Ron Wilson's fault.

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